Bazil Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Am I the only one who thinks they crammed what should of happened between 4 or 5 episodes (maybe even more) into just 1? Arya suddenly at the Twins? Jaime at the twins, and then suddenly arriving at Kings Landing half way across Westeros? Varys in Dorne then all of a sudden in Slavers (oops sorry "Dragon") bay with some Dorne ships no less. They cut out everything about people finding out about the Sept of Baelor blowing up and skip right to them plotting. Months must have passed from the start of the episode to the end. It's bizarre that the Sept was still smoldering when Jaime roles into town, just in time for Cersei to be crowned. With everything that happened in between the Sept blowing up and Jamie arriving there should have been just a cold ruble pile. Clearly this was all put together to set up for Dany's arrival in Westeros. Also I know that they have a budget to keep to as well. However, even though maybe they couldn't have made more episodes, they could have spread the events out a bit in the season. Some of the episodes this season didn't push the plot line along much. They could have gotten Arya out of Braavos near the begining of the season instead of the end, or truncated the whole High Sparrow time line since we've been waiting for Cersei's trial for over a season. Although I think this helps put in perspective what's taking GRRM so long to write his next book. I'm sure he's not going to take such cheap shortcuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Yes, the pace of the season, overall was very uneven. The 3 great episodes 5,9 & 10 should have had some of their sequences spread out and lengthened and some of the nonsense scenes like Tyrion's jokes should have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixFeetUnder Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 i think there is a couple reasons everything seems as its being rushed. 1. The producers aren't following the books anymore, they are the only putting the main events in that George told them about. 2. The producers "suddenly" realized they are short on episodes. And cut tons of stuff. 3. Winter came a lot sooner, then expected. I wish the series would have been 20 episodes a season, and 20 seasons lmao. I'm still not sure it would be enough to truly cover the events in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanis66 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 GRRM had included tons of details in every story and every character and D&D would need 20 or 30 episodes on every season to show them. Then, when the season arrive to the main events we find non sense facts: Varys talking with Tyrion on Meereem and inmediately surprising Lady Olenna and the Sand Snakes on Dorne and finally sailing with Daenerys. Just this 3 events takes not less than 2 or 3 months. Another example: Yara and Theon leaving Iron Islands on Iron fleet and after 2 episodes offering their services to Daenerys on Meereem, after travelling may be 2 months (the dstance between Iron Islands and Meereem is about 6.000 miles). Is just a question of budget, reducing the story to the main events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsteve666 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 It's the only thing that really bugged me to be honest, there's just no indication of time passing between scenes. Now it probably doesn't mater if you know nothing about the geography of Westeros as a pure show viewer, but anyone who has a vague idea of the world size is going to pick up on that. Plus you have Danny being the other side of the world and treated almost like a legend nobody believes which forced the size issue on us in the early seasons, almost contradicting what we have now. I guess just the odd line to explain time passing would be cool. Something like "it's been a month since the sept burned down...blah blah blah" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polythenehigh Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Just wanted to add the Sept would likely still be smoldering. Large fires leave heat spots deep down that can continue to smolder for weeks if not months, its why you will see fire services continue to douse a buildings shell for hours after the fire itself has gone out. With Westeros technology and the fact the Sept was on top of a hill (nightmare for water transport) and the fire itself being Wildfire it could still be smoking by Jamies arrival. I am more concerned about Varys being able to cross oceans in the amount of time it takes me to changes clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Of House Bucket Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 55 minutes ago, Bazil said: Arya suddenly at the Twins? Jaime at the twins, and then suddenly arriving at Kings Landing half way across Westeros? Varys in Dorne then all of a sudden in Slavers (oops sorry "Dragon") bay with some Dorne ships no less. I tend to treat this kind of thing as if the show simply doesn't have even timelines, even though scenes are shown as if they operate on some linear "this happens then this happens at roughly the same time" basis. So in other words, I don't mind thinking of Arya killing the waif in Braavos as happening "X weeks/months ago" even though it's shown as if it happens concurrently with such-and-so event in Westeros. It's a question of how to do it otherwise though. If they pulled the GRRM method with AFfC and ADwD, there would be whole seasons where we get concentrated stories that allow for travel time and continuity but at the expense of big main characters being nixed, and I'm not sure the precise way GRRM did it works so hot with TV because we'd again have timeline problems if the viewer sees it all as linear. They could stuff travel scenes into the show where appropriate or do a Spielberg "Indiana Jones travels across the world" narrative map with little animated arrows, but... It would be interesting to see with my 'alinear timeline' assumption if there are scenes where even this is impossible though. I admittedly haven't spent a lot of time putting this kind of thing under the microscope. I do agree that the 'teleportation' bit has the effect of shrinking the world too much. For unsullied, the impression must be that Braavos is like right next to the Twins or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storm.131 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 52 minutes ago, ummester said: Yes, the pace of the season, overall was very uneven. The 3 great episodes 5,9 & 10 should have had some of their sequences spread out and lengthened and some of the nonsense scenes like Tyrion's jokes should have been removed. I would add to that cutting the Sam & Gilly scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 The show has always had an issue with stretching out the early parts of seasons and cramming most of the major plot events in the last couple episodes. I think the season ended at the right point in the timeline, but a lot of what happened in the final episode should've been moved up. Particularly the Kings Landing events, which I think should've gone in episode 8. At least the Sept explosion, maybe just have Cersei's coronation in ep10. That way aslo the Varys, Olenna, Dorne meeting could be that episode as well, and it would at least be a little less jarring for Varys and the Dornish and Tyrell fleets (look at the sails in the last shot) to be with Dany. Arya shouldve left Braavos earlier in the season so there'd be at least a scene of her returning to Westeros before her being at the Twins. I wish Dany had left earlier, but I get why that was held off for purposes of getting Westeros finally into position. The only plotline that really moved at a pace that made consistent sense was the North. And I suspect D&D plotted that out first and then sorted the other storylines around it in the episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storm.131 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, Lordsteve666 said: I guess just the odd line to explain time passing would be cool. Something like "it's been a month since the sept burned down...blah blah blah" Or at the very least, changing their costumes to suggest it wasn't still the same day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I felt they deliberately skipped Arya's return to the Riverlands because they wanted to shock viewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMario Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 They abandoned plot lines and then went scorched earth to rid themselves of said plots. The show has always done this, but they really took it to extremes this season. Basically, within about 1 to 2 episodes, they essentially condensed the show down into 3 characters of interest with 2 actual storylines. Dany Cersei Jon Which equals Dany fighting Cersei and then later teaming up with Jon against the Others. Other than a couple outlying characters - Sam, Euron, Jorah and possibly Daario (if he still will be around) - every character is going to get snowballed into those above storylines within the first few episodes of season seven. Half of them already did - Dorne, BwB, the Vale, The Tyrells, Theon and Asha, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cron Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 4 hours ago, Bazil said: Am I the only one who thinks they crammed what should of happened between 4 or 5 episodes (maybe even more) into just 1? Arya suddenly at the Twins? Jaime at the twins, and then suddenly arriving at Kings Landing half way across Westeros? Varys in Dorne then all of a sudden in Slavers (oops sorry "Dragon") bay with some Dorne ships no less. They cut out everything about people finding out about the Sept of Baelor blowing up and skip right to them plotting. Months must have passed from the start of the episode to the end. It's bizarre that the Sept was still smoldering when Jaime roles into town, just in time for Cersei to be crowned. With everything that happened in between the Sept blowing up and Jamie arriving there should have been just a cold ruble pile. Clearly this was all put together to set up for Dany's arrival in Westeros. Also I know that they have a budget to keep to as well. However, even though maybe they couldn't have made more episodes, they could have spread the events out a bit in the season. Some of the episodes this season didn't push the plot line along much. They could have gotten Arya out of Braavos near the begining of the season instead of the end, or truncated the whole High Sparrow time line since we've been waiting for Cersei's trial for over a season. Although I think this helps put in perspective what's taking GRRM so long to write his next book. I'm sure he's not going to take such cheap shortcuts. If they had paced themselves and added to the story (with good scenes), they could have stretched the first 5 books ALONE into at least 7 or 8 full seasons, in my strong opinion, maybe more. (As it is, of course, they ware way beyond the 5th book, through only 6 seasons) But they didn't, they raced through it, chopped out a lot of great stuff, and NOW I'm hearing that they are SO out of material that Season 7 will only have 7 episodes, and Season 8 will only have 6 episodes. Does anyone know for sure if it is true about the next two seasons being shortened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, Cron said: If they had paced themselves and added to the story (with good scenes), they could have stretched the first 5 books ALONE into at least 7 or 8 full seasons, in my strong opinion, maybe more. (As it is, of course, they ware way beyond the 5th book, through only 6 seasons) But they didn't, they raced through it, chopped out a lot of great stuff, and NOW I'm hearing that they are SO out of material that Season 7 will only have 7 episodes, and Season 8 will only have 6 episodes. Does anyone know for sure if it is true about the next two seasons being shortened? They are not out of material. They cannot maintain the high production standards if they’re cranking out 10 episodes each season. These are like short movies, not like TV shows. I for one prefer quality over quantity. And there is no way in hell they could have spent 8 seasons on 5 books and still actually finished the series. Actors will not sign 12-year contracts, and neither will HBO. It is utterly unrealistic. Impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazil Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Yeah my theory on the shorter next two seasons is the high production cost for all the expected battle scenes. Basically my main point is here (and maybe this is on purpose) they made the whole direction of the series change in one episode and they had to rush it along to do it. It would have been easier to beleive and more natural seeming if it took the whole season, or at least the last half to set up all the chess pieces for the next season rather than cramming most of it into one episode. Like was pointed out earlier the only story that seemed to flow at a natural pace was in the north, which is why I didn't mention it in my original post. For now though the northern story and the southern story are seperate, which allowed them to do that. However that makes it feel a bit wierd because you'd think they'd be talking about what's going on north of the neck at the small council. In previous seasons talk of what was going on up there helped bring the two story lines together. This season it also feels like they are interleaving two shows. One put together well and the other slapped toegther quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cron Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 27 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said: They are not out of material. They cannot maintain the high production standards if they’re cranking out 10 episodes each season. These are like short movies, not like TV shows. I for one prefer quality over quantity. And there is no way in hell they could have spent 8 seasons on 5 books and still actually finished the series. Actors will not sign 12-year contracts, and neither will HBO. It is utterly unrealistic. Impossible. I have done my best to give fair consideration to the points you raise, but I stand by my opinions. I've read all the books twice (not saying that's more than you, cuz I have no idea about that), and I know for a fact they skipped a lot. Also, while fans (including me) have complained about some things they added (Roz, for example), I still strongly believe the show added some very high quality scenes that were not in the books (as long as they were consistent with the books, and did not contradict stuff in the books, I was fine with them, and thought they were great supplemental scenes for the books). Thus I continue to believe they COULD have stretched the first five books into 7 or 8 seasons, as I stated above. Regarding production costs: As long as the ratings are good, it's "full steam ahead" financially, I'm sure. This is an honest question for anyone who knows: How WERE the ratings this season compared to past seasons? I think I heard they were good, but I'm not positive. Finally, "quality" and "quantity": I agree with you that if I had to choose, I would choose quality. But I'm not convinced we have to choose. Although many years tend to pass between book publication dates (HAR!), GRRM has given us both quality and quantity, in the form of thousands of pages, and the blueprint is RIGHT THERE on those pages, all the show runners had to do was follow it more faithfully. (Having said all that, I do love the show, and do appreciate the many, many things they DID get right.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErasmusF Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 The initial slow pace of the show is gone for a few reasons. 1. Production and associated costs - they simply must end this as the wow factor fades out and more people ruin it with spoilers. I am looking at you Truede. And actors will simply get more and more expensive. That's what killed Friends. 2. There are just too few relevant characters left. They Tyrells are dead. There is no fAegon. The Boltons are dead. Stannis is dead. These characters all carried the water, but now the pot is full and it's time to cook. 3. They had to get things lined up for Dany to come to Westeros and for Jon to become King, and for there to be enough disorder in Westeros to facilitate what needs to happen to get Jon/Dany in the right place with an army to fight the others. It was simply dragging on. 4. They had to play a little bit of catchup since they spent so much time WALKING. GRRM could learn a thing or to. I don't need yet another side quest to foreshadow what we all know needs to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordofEarlyAfternoon Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Much of what GRRM writes does not translate well to the screen. Not all viewers are book readers, and there are a ridiculous amount of plot points/characters to maintain in these stories. I think all loyal book readers would love a more literal representation of the books on screen, but it's just not likely. They have to keep pace, or lose viewers. While many on here complain about the pace of the finale, that pace is appealing to the casual fan. To address the remark earlier about the timelines, I think they do address this. Spoiler The fact that Varys goes from Mereen-Dorne-Mereen shows a length of time. In that time the ships have been outfitted with Dragons and Targaryen sigils. It all may happen in 10 minutes on the show, but I think the viewer can realize that maybe some time has passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 9 minutes ago, ErasmusF said: 2. There are just too few relevant characters left. They Tyrells are dead. There is no fAegon. That’s ok: we still have fJon! Honestly, just how many hidden princes does the series really need? It would have been risible. And no, Tyrion doesn’t count because he’s a royal bastard like Bloodraven was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendry_Goldeneyes Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 most of this stuff should have happened at the end of the last book anyway two battles cersei blowing up the sept Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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