Panther2000

Can & Should King Jon send Men to The Wall?

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Being that Jon is now King, can & should he send men to the Wall to help out Ed.     He should send any man alive from Ramsey's Army and make them take the Black. Aslo send men from the other houses to the all, but they shouldn't have to take the black.  Just as backup for the watch & to help man the other castles.   That way Ed will know that Jon hasn't left the wall behind.  Rob was going to trade men for Jon.  

 

 

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In theory he should send himself there, granted that he took advantage of a deus ex machina situation (resurrection) to break his vow. The NW is 'for life', because usually people have only one life. Had the people who wrote the vow known that one could resurrect, they would have put it in terms of 'forever'. D&D (and GRRM) needed him to be able to go away from the Wall, but this doesn't change that it was a poor stratagem.

Edited by Elisabetta Duò

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Jon staying at or returning to the Wall would be useless and it would lead to the entire destruction of the North and most likely Westeros because no one would be ready for the Walkers when they come.  Jon is believe it or not still doing his NW duty. He has to unify the country and get them focused on the real enemy.  So in my eyes what he's doing is excellent strategy and makes the only sense. It's not like he's going around playing political games for personal power. Everything he's doing is being done with knowledge that the Walkers are coming. They are the endgame. As for the OP, I definitely see Jon sending men to the wall. Question is will more men at the wall mean more men killed when the walkers do come?  Will the Night King be able to bring down the whole wall or will he just be able to break the spells and pass through the gates?  If the latter, men will be able to retreat to the castles. I'm expecting a lot of retreating and humanity making their last stand at the trident. 

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He should send ALL the men to the Wall, including himself. Not to take the black necessarily, but that's where the real war is at. 

The previous KitN marched his armies the wrong way, hopefully the new one won't make the same mistake. 

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I'm not sure reinforcing is a good move. As has been pointed out, if the wall comes down then most everyone there will die. Buried in ice. Everyone in the North must suspect that the wall isn't an insurmountable obstacle to the Walkers, else there'd be no cause for concern. Strategically, it would be best to evacuate the Wall and engage South of the Wall.

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the thing is if everyone goes to the wall, Night King might have more dead bodies for his army... this is really a deadly situation unless Bran finds a way to defeat the Night King and tell the rest of Westeros, along with Dany marching to the North with her dragons. 

Edited by Chib

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I was hoping for a big wall coming down scene. You know, like that from Pink Floyd's the Wall. Jon should consolidate what remains of the NW with whatever army he has for the sole purpose of fighting against the Night's King. Everyone will probably hear of the dragon queen by the time next season begins. Not sure when she will hear of the walking dead. The wall still has magic in it, till Bran crosses it I guess. Then it's time to tear down that big ugly thing. 

Hopefully he's less emo in season 7. 

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Don´t analyze things with out-universe knowledge. No one can even conceive the Wall going down, and defending any wall is much easier than defending an open field. He will probably send men.

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He should send evrey man he can to the wall. He has 0 chance of holding anything but the wall. If the wall falls jon will not even be able to delay the other long anywhere. The others are simply to powerful. Originally few others were driven back by thousands of children of the forest, thousands of giants and men the vast majority of them died. Now the children of the forest, and giants are extinct and there are likely thousands of others(the others have been recieving baby sacrifices for thousands of years)

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10 minutes ago, NutBurz said:

Don´t analyze things with out-universe knowledge. No one can even conceive the Wall going down, and defending any wall is much easier than defending an open field. He will probably send men.

Bran has the Nk's mark on him. Bran's crib where he was chilling the the  was safe before he got marked. the Wall might suffer the same fate. 

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They can conceive it coming down. Or at the very least they can conceive it not being enough to hold back the Walkers. Way back in season 1, Samwell remarked he hoped it was high enough.

If you're commanding a defensive position that you expect can fail, you don't man that position with everything you have. You make a second position to fall back to. And maybe a third. In this case, they can't man the entire wall anyway, and doing so wouldn't necessarily be effective even if they could. So they need to have an army waiting to engage when the Wall fails.

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I have this odd little ember of hope that Bran or someone will, without ridiculous deus ex, figure out how to collapse the Wall on purpose. Nothing says seriously damaged army of the undead better than 100,000 reanimated corpses buried beneath thousands upon thousands of crumbled ice tonnage.

Edited by JEORDHl

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8 minutes ago, Vastet said:

They can conceive it coming down. Or at the very least they can conceive it not being enough to hold back the Walkers. Way back in season 1, Samwell remarked he hoped it was high enough.

If you're commanding a defensive position that you expect can fail, you don't man that position with everything you have. You make a second position to fall back to. And maybe a third. In this case, they can't man the entire wall anyway, and doing so wouldn't necessarily be effective even if they could. So they need to have an army waiting to engage when the Wall fails.

The problem is there is no defensive position they can have or can have that can compare to the wall. How can they even expect to hold any defensive position besides the wall for longer than a few minutes ? 

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Where would anyone get the idea that anyone in-universe would expect the Wall to fall?

 

And I´m not here to compare my own wits regarding military strategy, I´m here to discuss what those people would choose to do, and when you have a wall that size, you defend it the best you can. That´s the point of having a wall, and theirs is absolutely massive.

 

If that wall could be not high enough, what wall would ever be high enough?

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The problem is there is no defensive position they can have or can have that can compare to the wall. How can they even expect to hold any defensive position besides the wall for longer than a few minutes ? 



Where would anyone get the idea that anyone in-universe would expect the Wall to fall?



And I´m not here to compare my own wits regarding military strategy, I´m here to discuss what those people would choose to do, and when you have a wall that size, you defend it the best you can. That´s the point of having a wall, and theirs is absolutely massive.

If that wall could be not high enough, what wall would ever be high enough?



Not every defensive battle has to be fought from a defensive position you know. You could never win against the Walkers from a defensive position unless the Walkers attacked directly. Which we saw at Hardhome is not how they engage in battle. Only one Walker actually took part, the rest watched from afar and let the dead do all the work. As long as the Walkers live, the battle won't end. In order to kill the Walkers, the living will need to attack. Whether or not the Wall comes down, it will be easier and safer to mount an attack from South of the Wall.

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I feel like Jon's plan, or what will happen anyway, is holding up in Winterfell. We've seen since the beginning that Winterfell is somewhat in disrepair. I think we'll see Jon using some of those renovation skills he learned at the Wall on Winterfell. I also have a suspicion that Sam is going to find out that the Wall itself was made by the Others, not by the Night's Watch or men.

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5 minutes ago, Vastet said:


 



Not every defensive battle has to be fought from a defensive position you know. You could never win against the Walkers from a defensive position unless the Walkers attacked directly. Which we saw at Hardhome is not how they engage in battle. Only one Walker actually took part, the rest watched from afar and let the dead do all the work. As long as the Walkers live, the battle won't end. In order to kill the Walkers, the living will need to attack. Whether or not the Wall comes down, it will be easier and safer to mount an attack from South of the Wall.

How are you suppose to attack if you can't even defend against them ? If you attack them the only diffrence will be the rest watched from a far and let the dead do all the work in a defensive position,  while we attacked them, then they did a counter attack and almost no one was able to escape. The rest of us are being chased by wights that never get tired.

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On 6/28/2016 at 0:34 PM, Panther2000 said:

Being that Jon is now King, can & should he send men to the Wall to help out Ed.     He should send any man alive from Ramsey's Army and make them take the Black. Aslo send men from the other houses to the all, but they shouldn't have to take the black.  Just as backup for the watch & to help man the other castles.   That way Ed will know that Jon hasn't left the wall behind.  Rob was going to trade men for Jon.  

 

 

I'm a HUGE fan of GRRM, and I think his books are literally works of genius, but one of my biggest beefs has always been this idea that the Night's Watch is made up heavily from the scum of society (including many violent criminals of the worst sort imaginable), yet most of the time the Night's Watch functions just fine, they supposedly honor their oaths, rarely desert, and are reliable defenders of the Wall.

In my opinion, if the Night's Watch was real, the "bad guys" would have wiped out all the good guys a LONG time ago, and the Wall would have been abandoned.

So what's my point, as it applies to this thread?  The Wall needs to be reinforced and manned by LOTS of good troops from all 7 kingdoms, A.S.A.P.

Edited by Cron

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He should do so immediately. There are, what, 100 watchmen at the Wall? Not even that? It's far and away the best defense they have and they've left it incredibly vulnerable. Chances are they will lose it though, because if the Others are going to be a major threat they can't be confined to only the most northern part of westeros.

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52 minutes ago, MilesJames said:

He should send evrey man he can to the wall. He has 0 chance of holding anything but the wall. If the wall falls jon will not even be able to delay the other long anywhere. The others are simply to powerful. Originally few others were driven back by thousands of children of the forest, thousands of giants and men the vast majority of them died. Now the children of the forest, and giants are extinct and there are likely thousands of others(the others have been recieving baby sacrifices for thousands of years)

If the wall falls? Come on. There is no "if". Benjen said it clearly - while The Wall stands, the dead cannot pass because of Wall's magic. Meaning if they cannot pass, show can call the end. So, sooner or later the wall will have to go down.

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