Jump to content

Why Ned let Jon join the KW knowing of his heritage?


Nami

Recommended Posts

So I know many think Jon is not a Targ bastard. But if you think that, it makes Ned a huge asshole for basically allowing Jon to give up his right on the IT and to be tied forever to the NW.
If he is a bastard then it makes sense because Jon has no claim anyway

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ned didn't see Jon as having any right to the throne as he viewed Robert as his king.  Personally I do think he should have sent out some quick marriage proposals to Karstark Mormont etc, but the Starks have always served the watch, so while from our perspective it seems harsh, it was really a tradition his own brother followed as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ned's king is Robert and not the true heir to the throne, Jon, born to Rhaegar and Lyanna.

Thus, Ned did usurp the throne... and died with the King's Justice in the end.

To protect a royalty (a Targaryen and Stark by blood), Ned had to force him to live life as a bastard.  Yet at the end, his life was ended by a king who thought his life was of royalty, but who is actually a bastard.

“Why aren’t you down in the yard?” Arya asked him.
He gave her a half smile. “Bastards are not allowed to damage young princes,” he said. “Any bruises they take in the practice yard must come from trueborn swords.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Nami said:

So I know many think Jon is not a Targ bastard. But if you think that, it makes Ned a huge asshole for basically allowing Jon to give up his right on the IT and to be tied forever to the NW.
If he is a bastard then it makes sense because Jon has no claim anyway

1) A bastard, even a Targ bastard, has no right whatsoever to the Iron thron

2) the King Robert was Ned's friend, and Targaryns are enemy of both Robert and house Stark, remember what Mad King did? So if jon is indead a Targaryn bastard son of Ned's son, of course Ned would not want do Jon any harm, but at the same time, he would not want Jon to cause any trouble in the case there is a Targaryn comeback, so sending him to the Wall would be a perfect choice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's no way Ned could have foreseen the Wot5K, or any scenario where Jon might eventually come into his birthright.  He probably thought it was a way to keep him away from Catelyn and Robert, and at the same time continuing the long tradition of Starks in the NW.  Where was Jon going to go, anyway?  I'm surprised the topic of the NW hadn't come up sooner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since Ned and Howland Reed are the only 2 people who know about Jon's true identity there would be no reason to tell Jon or risk that he'd find out, so i don't think that was even a consideration.  I think Ned truly started to believe that Jon was his son and when he asked to join the KW Ned thought that it was a place where even a bastard could win honor and rise in prominence.  It seems that Jon had this idea for a long time so when he asked, Ned knew it was the best place for him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ned could also see it as the safest place for Jon:

- No knowledge of any real threat, beyond the possibility that Mance is gathering forces.  If there was a real threat, Ned intended to assist the Watch himself, which would negate said threat.

- If Jon's parentage were to be revealed somehow, then being a brother of the Night's Watch would further insulate him from any intrigue.  Distance from the capital and sworn vows renouncing any titles and claims would make him less threatening to any that knew his parentage.  Akin to Aemon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

everyone here is right. Ned may have promised to keep jon safe. He may have promised to hide jon's true identity at the cost of his own honor. But there is no way that he promised to see Jon on the Throne.

 

It may be that he didn't consider him as the rightful king because at the time Robert was king and had two healthy sons. It might also been specifically to strip him of any possible claim he would ever have in order to avoid a war like the blackfyre rebellions that caused untold thousands of lives. Not only this but Jon was eager to go so it all worked out very nicely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, marsyao said:

Disagree, Wall is a danger enough place

It may have become so after Ned's death but certainly was not before hand. Ned may have expected his bastard to have a similar experience to his brother Brandon who seemingly rose quickly (as many nobles do) and was allowed to travel to Winterfell fairly regularly. Any real threat to the Wall and I imagine Ned or a properly Ned trained Robb would have been their to support the Watch.

 

3 hours ago, Nami said:

So I know many think Jon is not a Targ bastard. But if you think that, it makes Ned a huge asshole for basically allowing Jon to give up his right on the IT and to be tied forever to the NW.
If he is a bastard then it makes sense because Jon has no claim anyway

The Targaryen dynasty was ended. Jon, even if he was not a bastard, has no real rights to the throne. Ned, Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully crowned Robert.

Ned possibly should have done more to convince him he had other options or even to wait a few years but it should also be noted that the Starks hold membership of the Watch in greater respect than the majority of lords in Westeros and in turn the Watch is fairly favorable to family members of the Starks. Jon may have risen far higher on the Wall than he would have done had he remained a 'free' man.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ned fulfilled his promise as best he could.  I believe that if Ned had much time after Robert's death and had the opportunity to return home he would have told Jon the truth.  Also, being in the Night's Watch is the good way to keep him safe from Robert.  What better way than to renounce any claims, family names, ect? Even though he did not know what claims or name he was giving up.  In Ned's mind this was still another step to protect him from Robert.  Jon as a man who swore an oath (to honorable Ned) is no threat to Robert's throne.  

How Robert began acting towards killing Dany incited the memories of the promise from Lyanna and made Ned even more fearful for both "children" at the time.  

Benjen had served faithfully for over a dozen years, there was no reason to see the wall as a bigger threat to Jon than it was to his brother.  Ned did not believe the tale from the deserter about White Walkers before splitting from Jon.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Nami said:

So I know many think Jon is not a Targ bastard. But if you think that, it makes Ned a huge asshole for basically allowing Jon to give up his right on the IT and to be tied forever to the NW.
If he is a bastard then it makes sense because Jon has no claim anyway

1. Ned was on Team Baratheon since before Robert's Rebellion was called Robert's Rebellion. Robert was Ned's king, end of story. Ned was no more likely to aid Jon's claim than to aid Viserys Targaryen.

2. Don't say "no claim", say "a weaker claim". Words "bastards cannot inherit" are usually accompanied by "...said Catelyn". I love Cat, but she is not objective. Trueborn Targ or Rhaegar's bastard, either way Jon Snow's claim to the Iron Throne would be extremely problematic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

It may have become so after Ned's death but certainly was not before hand. Ned may have expected his bastard to have a similar experience to his brother Brandon who seemingly rose quickly (as many nobles do) and was allowed to travel to Winterfell fairly regularly. Any real threat to the Wall and I imagine Ned or a properly Ned trained Robb would have been their to support the Watch.

The Wall is NEVER a safe place, and became a more dangerous place before Ned marched to the South

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Nami said:

So I know many think Jon is not a Targ bastard. But if you think that, it makes Ned a huge asshole for basically allowing Jon to give up his right on the IT and to be tied forever to the NW.
If he is a bastard then it makes sense because Jon has no claim anyway

He had no right over the IT, Ned's king was Robert Baratheon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, marsyao said:

The Wall is NEVER a safe place, and became a more dangerous place before Ned marched to the South

Is Ned some sort of helicopter parent now? The Wall is fine for a trained guy like Jon. I'm sure Ned expected him to do well there given his upbringing, especially with Benjen there to help him along and train him more in the ways of the ranger. All in all it was a pretty good plan to remove Jon from the game and also assuage his pissed off wife from Jon causing trouble for her natural born kids. In the North there is also great honor serving at the Wall and under normal circumstances Jon would have probably been safe from danger for years while he continued ranger training. Plus he was simply respecting Jon's decision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...