Storm Knight Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Jon is indeed the Prince that was promised and deserves to be recognized as the true protagonist of the story. The circumstances that led to Jon's birth fulfill the ancient prophecy so Jon is definitely destined to be the hero, but also his Upbringing and the conscious choices Jon has made throughout his life make him very heroic. Growing up feeling left behind and somewhat an outcast, Jon has every right to be bitter, angry and resentful yet Jon is none of these and is perhaps the most selfless, and one of the most compassionate and empathetic characters in the series. In all of Jon's internalizations we never see an ounce of jealousy, malice, hatred. I'm not trying to criticize Daenerys, but she does have a sense of entitlement about herself and is prone to petulance and has difficulty practicing emotional restraint. Jon has had to make very difficult choices as well, which have at times been unpragmatic and have cost him dearly but his moral ground has never shaken and he always has a strong sense of right and wrong. I'm all for Gray and complex characters which are very interesting but I'm glad we have one character is good and noble in his thoughts and deeds in every possible way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Because he is the most boring character by far? That's usually a reliable indicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Jon deserves to be if not The hero, the closest thing this series has to a true hero because he is the only one who fights for the people and not for himself. He does what is good for the people even if that will have negative effect on himself and the only time he chose himself his family he is attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 No-one deserves to be the protagonist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Each character is the protagonist of their own chapters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 17 hours ago, Storm Knight said: I'm not trying to criticize Daenerys, but she does have a sense of entitlement about herself and is prone to petulance and has difficulty practicing emotional restraint. All equally true about Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 The only thing Jon deserves to be recognized as is the most boring person in all of Westeros, Essos too for that matter. Bowen Marsh is the one true hero of this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Knight Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Oh come on guys Jon's not that boring. And can anyone give me instances in the text where Jon comes of as entitled or petulant? I'm just saying Jon has had to make very difficult choices and he's always done the right thing. Things haven't fallen perfectly in place for him, which is a good excuse for a lot of other characters to become bitter and angry and turn to hatred and violence. Jon's strength of character is incredible in this sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 9 minutes ago, Storm Knight said: Oh come on guys Jon's not that boring. And can anyone give me instances in the text where Jon comes of as entitled or petulant? I'm just saying Jon has had to make very difficult choices and he's always done the right thing. Things haven't fallen perfectly in place for him, which is a good excuse for a lot of other characters to become bitter and angry and turn to hatred and violence. Jon's strength of character is incredible in this sense. The way he handles the other Night 's Watch recruits initially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 He was a spoiled little bitch in the beginning, but matured No heroes in this story. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Knight Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 I'm just saying he's the most selfless and I don't think he was spoiled at all at the beginning. I mean he's never shown to have any sort of resentment towards Catelyn or any of this other siblings apart from that one time where Robb tells him he'll never be lord of winterfell he seemed to get a little worked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Storm Knight said: Oh come on guys Jon's not that boring. And can anyone give me instances in the text where Jon comes of as entitled or petulant? I'm just saying Jon has had to make very difficult choices and he's always done the right thing. Things haven't fallen perfectly in place for him, which is a good excuse for a lot of other characters to become bitter and angry and turn to hatred and violence. Jon's strength of character is incredible in this sense. He pretty much is. When he bullies his fellow recruits or whines about not being named ranger or he ignores the advice of others as LC. That is pretty boring especially when there aren't any consequences to that in contrast to other characters that basically get in the face with a sack of bricks for doing the same. They pretty much have also worked out for his benefit in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaynsa Starne Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I like Jon quite a bit, but I can never think of him as a hero. There's a goodness to him, but this isn't a story of heroes. Just of flawed individuals stumbling about some of the most horrific circumstances. Certainly, some characters are capable of heroism and have done some quite heroic things. But there isn't, and likely never will be, a definitive hero in asoiaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ned Stark Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Hero 1. A person who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities. Jon may not be the hero of aSoIaF, but he is a hero in the story. It remains to be seen on what level. You don't have 5000 pages of character growth, all the while have a central mystery of the story be in regards to his parentage, for nothing. Whether his POV is boring, well that's subjective. Lambasting him for being whiny, when he is all of 14 or 15, when he is surrounded by criminals in a frozen wasteland for the rest of his life comes across as silly. He was resentful, sure, but learned from his mistakes and made the best of the situation. Jon seems to be held to a different standard than most of the other POV's, most of which have many more grevious acts against them than Jon himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateVergo Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 20 hours ago, David Selig said: Because he is the most boring character by far? That's usually a reliable indicator. I believe he was talking about Jon Snow not Daenerys "Mary Sue" Targaryen. Daenerys is more likely to be the main "hero" anyway as she's got 3 dragons and the only reliable way to stop WWs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 He maybe a hero in his own story as everyone in this series. But calling him THE hero of the story is far fetched. Yeah he is boring. Because he reminds me of the zillion protagonists of other fantasies. A hidden prince who was the fulfillment of a prophecy who doesn't want power, want to save people,blah blah basically everything good. He is almost a Gary Stu. Yeah he has flaws like his incompetence. But he as a character is written to be liked. By comparison Daenerys as a character is much more interesting as she is more layered and she shows more shades. I like how Martin explores the effects of having power on an individual with her. I like how prophecy effects her and how she is afraid of madness. She wants to be heroic but also wants to be ruthless towards her enemies and how that affects her. Much more interesting. It is not always about doing good about her. See Jon. He was always about doing good. There were no interesting internal conflicts. Even when he has to choose he would have a choice that clearly leads to good. No wonder you like him because he is written as a likeable character more than any other character. Even his flaws are written to be endearing. Maybe you think he is the hero protagonist because he reminds of zillion other fantasy heros. But Martinverse is different. It is about characters not about heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Knight Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 It's true it could be argued that Daenerys is much more interesting character. One with several internal conflicts unlike Jon And its true that Jon has never had the kind of Power that Daenerys has had to wield. It would be interesting to see how Jon would react if he were in a similar position. People argue that his inherent goodness make him somewhat boring. But I still think its interesting that despite of all of the hardships that he has endured particularly in his childhood he hasn't lost his moral ground. I mean he's not even resentful or angry towards Catelyn after all of these years. All of this makes him very admirable I personally think and overall a very strong character that I can appreciate. Daenerys on the other hand, although sharing several traits with Jon, has done things which are somewhat morally questionable and can be considered vain, which makes her somewhat less deserving title of the decisive hero of the story. You are right in the sense that in Martin's Universe there are no heroes and every character is the protagonist of their own story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 9 hours ago, PirateVergo said: I believe he was talking about Jon Snow not Daenerys "Mary Sue" Targaryen. Jon is more of a Mary Sue than Dany. Also Dany's story has at least of number of awesome moments while Jon's biggest highlight seems to be executing a C-list (at best) villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 9 hours ago, PirateVergo said: reliable way How is that reliable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 9 hours ago, PirateVergo said: I believe he was talking about Jon Snow not Daenerys "Mary Sue" Targaryen. Considering Daenerys made quite a fuck-up of Essos and takes part in several morally dubious activities, I'd hardly call her a Mary Sue. For fuck's sake, she gets dysentery and fails to make a hat. If anything, post-AGoT Jon is the closest thing to a Mary Sue the series has. He's loved by every "good" character he encounters (bar Cat), has a magic sword (that he was rewarded by doing almost nothing), a magic wolf, magic powers, is secretly the son of the "Perfect couple", the "rightful King", and the in-universe Messiah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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