Drunken_Sailor24

Why hasn't Varys told Dany about the possibility of the White Walkers

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I have a hard time believing that Varys doesn't know about the war that is coming from north of the wall.  So how come he hasn't let her know, or at least informed her of the possibility?  Even if his goal is to be the hand of the Queen or whatever it might be "whatever is best for the realm"  Preparing Dany for that war suits him the best.

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I have a harder time believing that Varys actually does know about the others. It would be ironic also that the man who knows everything about politics and what his friends and foes are doing every second, fails to see the bigger threat when it's already catching on them.

I honestly think he doesn't have an idea, how would he? maybe the wall is the only place in the world his little birds don't sing

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3 minutes ago, Góngora said:

I have a harder time believing that Varys actually does know about the others. It would be ironic also that the man who knows everything about politics and what his friends and foes are doing every second, fails to see the bigger threat when it's already catching on them.

I honestly think he doesn't have an idea, how would he? maybe the wall is the only place in the world his little birds don't sing

If I remember well, Maester Aemon has warned the realm. Varys prob knows but either:

- doesn't want to believe in the NK's magic 

- underestimates the threat

- knows but wants Dany to take the IT first, step by step.

- didn't say anything but fully expects Dany to fight the WW upon arrival

what do you think?

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I don't think Varys has littlebirds beyond the wall. Still even if he knows he doesn't want to believe in the Army of the Dead because of his hate towards magic. 

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2 minutes ago, The Imp slap said:

If I remember well, Maester Aemon has warned the realm. Varys prob knows but either:

- doesn't want to believe in the NK's magic 

- underestimates the threat

- knows but wants Dany to take the IT first, step by step.

- didn't say anything but fully expects Dany to fight the WW upon arrival

what do you think?

I believe  I even remember Cersei reading a letter or something about it yes. But nobody really believes it, Varys's role has been plotting against everyone in KL for decades now, I would be truly surprised if he gave any notice to a (seemingly) commoner's tale about ice zombies going to eat them all. Also, let's remember that book Varys has totally different plans for the future, he isn't Danys sidekick there, would he start a civil war between forgotten Targaryens yet again if he believed in the warnings he has heard from the north?

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Well, remember he have a kind of disregard for the supernatural and religious prophecies overall. You can see that the way he talks to the red priest on this season. So even though he might have gotten reports of something brewing behind the Wall, I doubt he'd think it to be much more than wildlings gathering together once again. White Walkers are barely talked about south of the Wall at all, once you think about it.

Truth is, both him and Littlefinger have such awesome moments of cleverness and intrigue along the books and series that people tend to overestimate their cunning and overlook their weaknesses (I've been noting that on that other thread about Littlefinger knowing about Jon's parentage).

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It has been my understanding that not even the northerners give credence to the threat of White Walkers anymore. They do not deny they existed once, but completely disbelieve they have returned. That and the word comes from the Night's Watch. While the north may give some credence to it, as they still see it as a decent institution for the most part, the south sees the Wall as a place to get rid of their trash.

Why would Varys know anyway? He and the other schemers are more concerned with mundane matters. None of them are looking for supernatural/magical threats. In the end denial of their existence is what will be their undoing. As Littlefinger said "What we do not know is what usually gets us killed".

The northerners are now taking it seriously. Because it comes from a man whose deeds are considered legendary, and that man they just made King in the North.

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I've always found this disconnect in the show and the books troubling. Rumours of dragons reborn reached Kings Landing and yet never any gossiping about strange tales coming down from the wall. After all the wall isn't just a fixture of the North it is known in all the corners of Westeros and the narrow sea. Even the Dornish understand it's historical significance. So what's going on? Other than the battle for the long night will be a damp squib or a story for another time and book series. If we were to play the telephone game (aka Chinese whispers) there should be whoppers of a story coming down from the north passed on from tavern to tavern, trader to trader, client to whore, whore to client etc etc. But Nothing. (Every one heard of the red wedding)

It's very vexing.

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I wonder if the difference is how much they hear from the north?

The Rangers North of the wall have seen and reported things for a long time. It may be that people have heard so much about it that they ignore it.  The Nights watch has almost certainly spun tails as they travel the south recruiting.  If you hear something often enough, yet never see the proof, it becomes noise.

Stories of Dragons reborn are new, so they have not been "discredited" by time and repetition.

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21 minutes ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

I wonder if the difference is how much they hear from the north?

The Rangers North of the wall have seen and reported things for a long time. It may be that people have heard so much about it that they ignore it.  The Nights watch has almost certainly spun tails as they travel the south recruiting.  If you hear something often enough, yet never see the proof, it becomes noise.

Stories of Dragons reborn are new, so they have not been "discredited" by time and repetition.

Not to mention the throne room has quite the collection of dragon's heads, so it's not to hard for people to believe in their existence.

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On ‎01‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 11:30 PM, the tower of albion said:

I've always found this disconnect in the show and the books troubling. Rumours of dragons reborn reached Kings Landing and yet never any gossiping about strange tales coming down from the wall. After all the wall isn't just a fixture of the North it is known in all the corners of Westeros and the narrow sea. Even the Dornish understand it's historical significance. So what's going on? Other than the battle for the long night will be a damp squib or a story for another time and book series. If we were to play the telephone game (aka Chinese whispers) there should be whoppers of a story coming down from the north passed on from tavern to tavern, trader to trader, client to whore, whore to client etc etc. But Nothing. (Every one heard of the red wedding)

It's very vexing.

On the show of course Tywin underestimates the threat of the dragons but I think your looking at something very different there, dragons existed in Westeros 2-3 generations ago and played a significant military role not long before that, the Walkers last played a significant role 8,000 years ago.

If theres a problem in terms of underplaying threats its not he Walkers IMHO its the way Westeros responds to the threat of Mance's army.

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The North is very isolated from the south, D&D's magic teleportation system not withstanding. And the tales of the White Walkers are considered children's tales even in the north. When Mormont sends the wight's hand south, by the time it gets there it really is dead. The maesters, the clergy, the crown and the commoners all believe these are children's tales much as we believe the tales of the Brother's Grimm are children's fables. Varys is a political animal and, although he has had a personal brush with magic he will not consider it unless his back is to the wall. I don't think Varys knows.

Also to be considered is that none of these manifestations occurred until recently. Although the seasons waxed and waned, no Others had been seen for thousands of years. 

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Hey maybe the "Varys is a mermaid" theory is true and he wants Westeros to be destroyed so the sea people can take over????

*Theorizing while drunk*

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On 10/16/2016 at 2:57 PM, MoreOrLess said:

On the show of course Tywin underestimates the threat of the dragons but I think your looking at something very different there, dragons existed in Westeros 2-3 generations ago and played a significant military role not long before that, the Walkers last played a significant role 8,000 years ago.

If theres a problem in terms of underplaying threats its not he Walkers IMHO its the way Westeros responds to the threat of Mance's army.

Yes, this is true. There are historical records of dragons, and there is physical evidence of their existence all around. With the Others, anything concerning them happened so long ago that for many people they are just a legend. There is no recent, accurate historical account of them, so they get lumped in with the "grumpkins and snarks" of the world, along with giants and Children Of The Forest.

For lack of a better term, I think Southerners tend to be more logical and rigid in their religious beliefs and the existence of the supernatural, while Northerners tend to be more mystical and superstitious. Varys falls more into the Southern ideology. He is well aware of the existence of magic, but something like the Others is just a bridge too far for him.

I think this is something that will come into play this season. Jon will meet Dany and tell her about what's going on north of the wall. Varys will advise her and say the Jon is only trying to distract her from her true goal, sending her on some wild goose chase north of the wall. Only Tyrion will speak up in favor of Jon and say something like "The boy is not mad. I know this boy, and I know his family. His sister was even my wife, for a brief, blissful time. The Starks are a hard family, and they come from the wild, untamed North, but they are not known for their madness. Which," he says, looking at Dany, "is more than can be said of your family." This will lead Dany to asking Jon to provide proof, then Jon will range North of the wall to capture a wight, and only then will everyone, including Varys, believe what he is telling them.

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