Bran, Bloodraven and the Nights King

[Lord Lannister]

On 7/1/2016 at 9:08 AM, Sophie of House Stark said:

What makes you think this?

In the novels Melisandre's POV chapter seems in indicate via one of her visions that the Three eyed Raven and Bran are going to be the champions of the Great Other, which is seemingly the divine force behind the White Walkers and wights. So while that possibility may still exist on some level, it's safe to say the show has taken another path.

[Net-Viper X]

21 hours ago, tugela said:

To be fair, Bloodraven did not give him enough explanation. The obvious thing to do would explain the Bran WHY he should or shouldn't do something, so that Bran understood the reason. But he didn't do that, like most of the characters in the show.

When you are teaching someone new techniques or technologies, the first thing you should be doing before anything else is explaining the risks and dangers. Only then do you give them access, so that they don't do something stupid because they don't know any better. It is pointless lecturing someone to not to get too close to the cutter when it is working after they have sliced their hand off. That is basically what Bloodraven did, not once, but repeatedly. He is a terrible teacher! Safety first people.

While I can agree to a point about BR being vague on some issues, I do think that Bran had been told never to enter the tree without his supervision. Other wise why would he make sure BR was asleep before going back into the past.? Bran knew what he was doing was forbidden or he wouldn't have been sneaking about it. You can tell a kid how to be safe with power tools, but if he sneaks into the woodshop and runs a drill through his hand, that is the kids fault, not the teacher. The kid knew he wasn't supposed to be back there messing with stuff.

[aryagonnakill#2]

On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 0:18 PM, The Yung Wulf said:

Was BR taught? If you refer back to 'Tales of Dunk and Egg' it would seem that BR was already a very powerful Greenseer before he went North to become the LC of the NW. He was the Hand of the king, effectively ruling over Westeros while Aerys I and Maekar I were ruling. At that time, people were still saying "He sees with 1000 eyes and 1" and it was pretty well known that he used sorcery.

He was using sorcery yes, he used a glamour at White Walls, and likely skinchanged the ravens he sent people, but that is different from greenseeing.  Whether he was formally trained or not I can only assume yes, I do not know it for a fact.  Maybe he was just pointed in the right direction and had to teach himself.

[tugela]

3 hours ago, dbunting said:

This is a show discussion and forum though, so adding stuff like Mance being Rheagar, in books but not show, just adds to confusion. And why/how in what warped universe is Mance secretly Rheagar? Rheagar was killed in combat by Robert. Robert knew Rheagar, there would be no mistaking him. Rheagar is dead as dead gets.

The person killed at the Trident was decked out in rubies, and this is mentioned numerous times. Even the battlefield is called Ruby forge because of it. Rubies are used in the book for glamor spells, so the person killed at the trident might not have been Rhaegar, just somone glamored to look like him.

Robert did not know Rhaegar, he would have seen him at Harrenhal, but that was likely the only time they ever would have met. Prior to that Robert was being fostered by Lord Arryn at the Vale, with occasional trips to the Stormlands. He did not spend time at King's Landing.

I know the book is different from the show, which is why I believe that Rhaegar is Mance in the book, and the Night King on the show. Functionally Mance and the Night King will be playing similar roles as the oppositional force to Jon and Daenerys when the story reaches it's conclusion, in that it will be a father with dark purpose facing off against his two children (a medieval version of star wars).

[Lurid Jester]

On June 30, 2016 at 10:07 PM, frozenwombat said:

I'm new to the forum so sorry if this has been covered elsewhere but..why is Bran going to the Wall if he knows it will enable the NK/WWs to get through?

He doesn't know that. No one does. So far it's just a theory, and a thin one at that.  

Seems a poor strategy to build a vast army of wights and then hope that someday someone might come visit in the weirwood.net that he can mark. 

Surely the NK has a plan in place for the wall that doesn't involve Bran.  

Granted, for the show they might use this method to save time.  

[dbunting]

16 hours ago, tugela said:

The person killed at the Trident was decked out in rubies, and this is mentioned numerous times. Even the battlefield is called Ruby forge because of it. Rubies are used in the book for glamor spells, so the person killed at the trident might not have been Rhaegar, just somone glamored to look like him.

Robert did not know Rhaegar, he would have seen him at Harrenhal, but that was likely the only time they ever would have met. Prior to that Robert was being fostered by Lord Arryn at the Vale, with occasional trips to the Stormlands. He did not spend time at King's Landing.

I know the book is different from the show, which is why I believe that Rhaegar is Mance in the book, and the Night King on the show. Functionally Mance and the Night King will be playing similar roles as the oppositional force to Jon and Daenerys when the story reaches it's conclusion, in that it will be a father with dark purpose facing off against his two children (a medieval version of star wars).

So, you think that the person they showed tied to the tree on the show was Rhaegar? That scene was thousands of years old, when the COF were battling the First Men, Leaf said so in the episode. Rhaegar was born and killed thousands of years after the Nights King was created by the COF.

[wolfsbae]

20 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

Seems a poor strategy to build a vast army of wights and then hope that someday someone might come visit in the weirwood.net that he can mark.

This - thank you! I think it's the route the show is hinting at, but the NK absolutely did not build his army in the tenuous hope that someday, possibly, in the far off and uncertain future, a certain someone might show up and allow him to pass through.

[Red Man Racey]

The mechanics of how the Night's King "mark" works are never discussed, but I guess I just assumed that it destroyed the magic barrier on the cave because that's where Bran was when he got marked. I didn't (and still don't, really) view it as a permanent thing. Now if Bran were to get south of the Wall and then get marked again, well that's a different story. Maybe they'll explain the mechanics of this whole "marking" thing better in the opening of next season.