Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Saw this on facebook. It has prompted some interesting discussion. I agree the kids shouldn't have been fired but is a petition about a dress code where they do not have all the information they need to evaluate the exception that prompted their peition really the way to go. Do you think college style activism will become the norm in American Workplaces as the kids used to it move into the workaday world?: http://www.askamanager.org/2016/06/i-was-fired-from-my-internship-for-writing-a-proposal-for-a-more-flexible-dress-code.html From the article: Quote I was able to get a summer internship at a company that does work in the industry I want to work in after I graduate. Even though the division I was hired to work in doesn’t deal with clients or customers, there still was a very strict dress code. I felt the dress code was overly strict but I wasn’t going to say anything, until I noticed one of the workers always wore flat shoes that were made from a fabric other than leather, or running shoes, even though both of these things were contrary to the dress code. I spoke with my manager about being allowed some leeway under the dress code and was told this was not possible, despite the other person being allowed to do it. I soon found out that many of the other interns felt the same way, and the ones who asked their managers about it were told the same thing as me. We decided to write a proposal stating why we should be allowed someone leeway under the dress code. We accompanied the proposal with a petition, signed by all of the interns (except for one who declined to sign it) and gave it to our managers to consider. Our proposal requested that we also be allowed to wear running shoes and non leather flats, as well as sandals (not flip-flops though) and other non-dress shoes that would fit under a more business casual dress code. It was mostly about the footwear, but we also incorporated a request that we not have to wear suits and/or blazers in favor of a more casual, but still professional dress code. The next day, all of us who signed the petition were called into a meeting where we thought our proposal would be discussed. Instead, we were informed that due to our “unprofessional” behavior, we were being let go from our internships. We were told to hand in our ID badges and to gather our things and leave the property ASAP. We were shocked. The proposal was written professionally like examples I have learned about in school, and our arguments were thought out and well-reasoned. We weren’t even given a chance to discuss it. The worst part is that just before the meeting ended, one of the managers told us that the worker who was allowed to disobey the dress code was a former soldier who lost her leg and was therefore given permission to wear whatever kind of shoes she could walk in. You can’t even tell, and if we had known about this we would have factored it into our argument. I have never had a job before (I’ve always focused on school) and I was hoping to gain some experience before I graduate next year. I feel my dismissal was unfair and would like to ask them to reconsider but I’m not sure the best way to go about it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I think it was a silly thing to do, but the company overreacted. If you have a concern like that, raise it with your line manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 There were mistakes on both sides. I think a serious talking to would have been more useful than just firing these kids. That said I can see that the company may have seen the "petition" as a prelude to some kind of legal or regulatory action and just wanted to be out from under the potential threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Mia Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 There is a dress code. They knew the dress code. They are not entitled to personal medical information of other workers. They were interns. They had according to this asked their managers privately before and were told no. A workplace, especially if you are an intern, is not somewhere you go about with petitions. I saw this as well, and the thought that went through my head when I first read it was welcome to the real world, children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbound Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Yup, welcome to reality. Safe places, safe conduct, and getting your way are gone. You asked, were told no, no go to work. Like I said somewhere else, it's hard to feel sorry for someone who expect change and accommodation (silly accommodation) right out of the gate. They have no understanding of the corporate culture, history, or even the job at hand. You knew what you were getting into, now press on and address the issue when you've got a little time under you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I think the reaction was maybe overly harsh but I would say that you are there to be working and clearly they spent time drafting a proposal and circulating a petition about dumb shit instead. If this is a first job, my recommendation would be to try and stand out due to your work ethic and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Pretty stupid from both sides really. Obviously as an intern handing in a petition to be allowed trainers to work is a bad idea. From the employer's side though the point of internships, beyond the cheap labour bit, is to give you a leg up in attracting talent, summarily dismissing most of a year's worth of them isn't a great look for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Maya Mia said: There is a dress code. They knew the dress code. They are not entitled to personal medical information of other workers. They were interns. They had according to this asked their managers privately before and were told no. A workplace, especially if you are an intern, is not somewhere you go about with petitions. I saw this as well, and the thought that went through my head when I first read it was welcome to the real world, children. All this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I feel sorry for the one intern who's now getting all the coffees and doing all the filing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 1 hour ago, ljkeane said: From the employer's side though the point of internships, beyond the cheap labour bit, is to give you a leg up in attracting talent, summarily dismissing most of a year's worth of them isn't a great look for them. On the contrary, this was a stroke of luck for the company. If the industry is one which requires formal attire, it's almost certainly not one where an individual can come in and be productive immediately. Unless the interns are just going to to be fetching coffee (in which case just grab some more off the street...), they need to be taught and supervised which means that they're taking up the time of experienced workers (i.e. they're almost always more trouble than they're worth). The reason to have interns at all is that a subset of them can later be invited for a permanent job which nets an employee who is already well known and who has already been trained. In this case, the company inadvertently stumbled on a filter for identifying people who are obnoxious, entitled, stupid and/or easily swayed by peer pressure. This allowed them to dramatically reduce the list of interns who might be worth hiring later on without having to waste resources on training them first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 My guess is this: Quote The fact that they did fire all of you for it makes me wonder if there were other issues too and this pushed them over the edge. Were you getting good feedback before this, or had you noticed your manager trying to rein you in on other things? If there were other issues, I can more easily understand them just throwing up their hands and being finished with the whole thing. Hard to say without knowing also what the industry is, but it certainly feels like there's more to this story. Corporations are generally sensitive about their relationships with universities. Also, this: Quote I have never had a job before (I’ve always focused on school) and I was hoping to gain some experience before I graduate next year. Congratulations. You did learn something. Something very valuable. but based on this: Quote I feel my dismissal was unfair and would like to ask them to reconsider but I’m not sure the best way to go about it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. It apparently did not sink in, and will likely need to be learned at least one more time the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 They should have asked for recommendation letters before being terminated. But seriously, adhere to the company's policies and try to impress your superiors while you're there. This isn't a difficult concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I'm curious what the mgt of the company feels the objective of having a internship program is for them? Also were the internships paid or unpaid? And why arent we told the name of the company in this story? It's an interesting case but to draw much conclusion i'd find a few answers to these questions helpful. The background always give a more complete picture, i'm left wondering what else may be left out of the story? Anyways with so little to go on the only opinion I will give is that i'm opposed to unpaid internships, our company offers summer internships to young adults but they are compensated which I think is ethical, unpaid internships leaves too much potential for exploitation imo, I would like to see the practice outlawed in the U.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Look, in general, if a company has a clearly stated dress policy (which this company apparently did), then, you know, they knew what they were getting into going in. The petition was dumb, useless and shows they were spending more time agonizing over what shoes coworkers were wearing rather than, I don't know, doing their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share Posted July 2, 2016 I'm rather surprised that there hasn't a more spirited defense of the interns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily Valley Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I'm rather surprised that there hasn't a more spirited defense of the interns. From this end, you're getting a cranky, middle aged round of "I had to suffer in heels so these brats need to suck it up." Edit: I DO think dress codes and one-size-fits-all scheduling are stupid. Thing is, it's not these kids company. They don't write the policy. As interns, they are there to gain some valuable experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 It looks almost parodic to me...could anyone really be that naive? Not the aspect of wanting to change a semi-nonsensical dress code (I have a habit of wandering barefoot around workplaces and have been repeatedly told off. Obviously not a strongly held principle for me that I would want to be what my bosses remember me for, but nor do I respect the logic behind wearing shoes all day indoors,) but the clueless, underachieving-entitled attitude of well, we wrote the essay in a properly structured way, with, like, points and grammar and things! It's not our fault we had no convincing arguments or any relation to reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Without knowing more details, I would assume the firing had a lot more to do with potential harassment than with the actual petition for a dress code change. The intern who wrote the letter placed a lot of focus on the worker who was exempt from the dress code. She's even upset that no one gave her the medical information of the amputee employee. Their entire campaign seems to be built on this disabled employee, which is simply not ok and I'd say there is plenty of cause for management to be concerned about harassment claims. So yeah, just based on the info they have, I'd say the mass firing was probably valid. That said, I'm aghast at all of the comments saying they knew what they were getting into so they should just buck up and take it. We have workplaces that are greatly improved from generations past because there were people who didn't just shut up and take it. These interns obviously went the very wrong way about this and were focusing on the wrong thing, but there is no reason to just accept a dress code that is inherently sexualizing and/or physically damaging. Heels should no longer be a requirement in any dress code. Genuine leather probably shouldn't either. It's really frustrating that these interns went about this so poorly as it's a negative mark on the current movement that's pushing back at dress codes that sexualize the bodies of women and girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 This thread reminded me of a tweet that I saw earlier today. Fucking Millennials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageGuy Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 4 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said: but there is no reason to just accept a dress code that is inherently sexualizing and/or physically damaging. Heels should no longer be a requirement in any dress code. Companies have been sued and lost over heels requirements. I'd love to see the actual dress code, but I didn't read "flat shoes that were made from a fabric other than leather, or running shoes" as a heels requirement; combined with the don't make us wear suits and blazers requests, it seemed more no sneakers/trainers to me. If it was a heels requirement, then yes, I would side more with the interns. 6 hours ago, Leap said: Like, what sort of important shit do interns actually do? They can do a lot depending on the internship. I did more than fetch coffee and data entry in mine, though maybe things have changed in the past ten years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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