Connecting the pieces (possible spoilers)

[Onion Hound]

Hi gang. Long time lurker, I havent seen anyone mention this theory lately, so I feel like I'm taking crazy pills or missing something. Please feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but with details so I can get this out of my head. 

I've seen this theory before, but I think season 6 really made this worth thinking about at least. All the season finale told us was that Lyanna is Jon's mom. Everyone just assumes it means Rhaegar is his dad. I think its Arthur Dayne. My reasons to belive Arthur is dad are as follows...

Before the battle of the bastards, Ramsey says that line that people think Jon is the best sword there ever was...that's the one thing everyone agrees on about Arthur, a little, albeit very little nod I think.

During the season finale, right before bran hooks up to the weirwood and sees jons real mom, Benjen tells him "I wish you good fortune"...the same thing Arthur told Ned before their fight. Maybe I'm looking at this one all wrong, but I think it's a hint. I'm sure ned told Benjen, and think Benjen hinted it to Bran.

So I went back to episode 3 to make sure Arthur did say that, (he did, and the actor looks like kit a bit)and realized that in that episode titled Oathebreaker, no one really breaks an oath. Jon died, his watch ended, and no one has called him an oathebreaker since. So, the only oathebreaker in that episode, is possibly Arthur..if he fathered a child. That was the most anticipated scene in that episode. It could have been called "the tower" or something. But I think calling it oathebreaker is another hint.

I also think this theory just makes everything fit much better. I have never once seen Jon as the type of guy to be riding a dragon when he should be on the ground with his men and a sword in his hand. That sword, if Dayne is his dad, could then be Dawn. Jon/ dawn they rhyme even. He could then give long claw to Jorah. Sam could give hearts bane to Tormund Giantsbane. Something like that. (They're are gonna need the swordsman on the ground, and not on a dragon.

So with Jon being the sword of the morning, obviously Dany is the Ptwp. With my train of thought, the other two dragon riders will be other people that are useless with a sword. I nominate Tyrion, Bran or Davos. If Bran is the Three eyed raven now, it could possibly mean he is actual part bloodraven/Targ too. My Davos theory comes from Gendry. Why else was he on the show? The only thing I could thinkof was to show a parallel with Davos. They grew up a lot alike. Could Davos also be a kings bastard? Or just another Targ bastard? 

The last thing that makes me think Jon is a Dayne is because I think its inevitable that he and Dany will marry. It's 2016, and on tv, I think incest is yucky for most viewers. I also think incest equals doom in the story. Look no further than Cersei and Jaime, and there screwed up children. 

Sorry for being so long winded, would like to here your thoughts on this. Bonus question, do you think Bran can skin change into Zombie Mountain? There'd be some cool possibilities if he can.

[Rumy Stark]

11 hours ago, Onion Hound said:

Hi gang. Long time lurker, I havent seen anyone mention this theory lately, so I feel like I'm taking crazy pills or missing something. Please feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but with details so I can get this out of my head. 

I've seen this theory before, but I think season 6 really made this worth thinking about at least. All the season finale told us was that Lyanna is Jon's mom. Everyone just assumes it means Rhaegar is his dad. I think its Arthur Dayne. My reasons to belive Arthur is dad are as follows...

Before the battle of the bastards, Ramsey says that line that people think Jon is the best sword there ever was...that's the one thing everyone agrees on about Arthur, a little, albeit very little nod I think.

During the season finale, right before bran hooks up to the weirwood and sees jons real mom, Benjen tells him "I wish you good fortune"...the same thing Arthur told Ned before their fight. Maybe I'm looking at this one all wrong, but I think it's a hint. I'm sure ned told Benjen, and think Benjen hinted it to Bran.

So I went back to episode 3 to make sure Arthur did say that, (he did, and the actor looks like kit a bit)and realized that in that episode titled Oathebreaker, no one really breaks an oath. Jon died, his watch ended, and no one has called him an oathebreaker since. So, the only oathebreaker in that episode, is possibly Arthur..if he fathered a child. That was the most anticipated scene in that episode. It could have been called "the tower" or something. But I think calling it oathebreaker is another hint.

I also think this theory just makes everything fit much better. I have never once seen Jon as the type of guy to be riding a dragon when he should be on the ground with his men and a sword in his hand. That sword, if Dayne is his dad, could then be Dawn. Jon/ dawn they rhyme even. He could then give long claw to Jorah. Sam could give hearts bane to Tormund Giantsbane. Something like that. (They're are gonna need the swordsman on the ground, and not on a dragon.

So with Jon being the sword of the morning, obviously Dany is the Ptwp. With my train of thought, the other two dragon riders will be other people that are useless with a sword. I nominate Tyrion, Bran or Davos. If Bran is the Three eyed raven now, it could possibly mean he is actual part bloodraven/Targ too. My Davos theory comes from Gendry. Why else was he on the show? The only thing I could thinkof was to show a parallel with Davos. They grew up a lot alike. Could Davos also be a kings bastard? Or just another Targ bastard? 

The last thing that makes me think Jon is a Dayne is because I think its inevitable that he and Dany will marry. It's 2016, and on tv, I think incest is yucky for most viewers. I also think incest equals doom in the story. Look no further than Cersei and Jaime, and there screwed up children. 

Sorry for being so long winded, would like to here your thoughts on this. Bonus question, do you think Bran can skin change into Zombie Mountain? There'd be some cool possibilities if he can.

Whew, a lot here.

First, Bran warging into Zombie Mountain is a really fascinating idea omg. 

Second, I love the details you noticed and think it's overall a strong theory. I have to disagree with it though for a few reasons:

1) HBO released an infographic recently that shows Rhaegar and Lyanna as Jon's parents, so it seems at least HBO has confirmed R + L = J. Additionally, you'll notice the "previously on" in the ep included two scenes that mentioned Rhaegar and how he abducted Lyanna, but there was no mention of Arthur and no allusion to him aside from Dawn at Lyanna's bedside. 

2) One of the main arguments against this theory is that it doesn't make sense for Rhaegar to kidnap Lyanna and start a war just so his friend Arthur can spend some time breaking his KG oaths at the TOJ, particularly while Rhaegar is there. Overall it would be a really unsatisfying explanation for a world-altering thing, and the nature of the narrative makes it clear that Rhaegar's concern was Lyanna. The show less so (although there are a few mentions, like from Oberyn), but in the books certainly we hear from more than one source that Rhaegar loved Lyanna.

3) Arthur wasn't the only member of the KG at the TOJ after the siege of King's Landing. Gerald Hightower and Oswell Whent would not have been there if they weren't protecting the royal family, as their oaths bound them to. If Lyanna was Arthur's lover, Jon his kid, Arhtur might have stayed to protect his family but the other two would have no reason to be there. If Lyanna is Rhaegar's wife/ lover and Jon his son, that makes Jon a prince and worthy of their protection. 

I really do like the Oathbreaker point you made, though, and I'll think on that and what it might mean. 

[Snoop Arryn]

Season 1, ep 1: "What Rheagar did to your sister...." - Robert speaking to Ned. We also have other references throughout season 1 of Robert wanting to kill every Targaryen he can/could find. The Rhaegar/Lyanna relationship/interaction is established from the beginning. It is referenced sparingly from then on in the series, but it is referenced.

Season 6, ep 10: We finally see what "happened" to Lyanna. She gave birth to a child, she told Ned to protect that child from Robert. We learned earlier that there were KG there "under orders" guarding the tower.

I know the show doesn't exactly have the best reputation for logic, but I find it hard to believe that given all that, they would reveal Arthur Dayne to be the father.

[grufolo]

Why would Lyanna be afraid that Robert would want to kill the baby, if he was Dayne's?

[Onion Hound]

Quote

 

Rumy...points 1 and 3, touche. I have nothing, haha. In the show only one other kg was with Arthur, but that doesn't change your point (as far as I can tell). Regarding point two, I always try to put myself in the characters shoes. Rhaegar originally thought that he was the ptwp, but as he grew older stopped believing it was him. Could this have to do with your best bud being a better knight than you could ever be? So, he could think about genes, the baddest knight, plus the baddest woman probably equals one tough pup. After all, the Targ had zero to do with fighting off the original white walkers...the starks and Dayne did it before. So he could have been playing match maker for the greater good. Or it could just be a weird misunderstanding/sabotage. After all, the game of thrones didn't start when Jon Arryn died. It's been going on forever.

Grufolo...the only thing I can think of is that Robert loved Lyanna, but more importantly Robert thought she loved him. He could see Jon as an abomination/rape baby/treason baby either way. Or he wouldn't believe he was Arthurs and just assume he's Rhaegar's anyway. All trouble for ned no matter how you swing it.

One more point to make/question would be...How is Jons hair dark, if he's Rhaegar's? They made a big deal how it was impossible for Robert to have blonde kids with a blonde woman? I get there will be some inconsistencies and red herrings, but I still think they at least want us to still debate this. Thanks for the replys.

[King Jon Snow Stark]

41 minutes ago, Onion Hound said:

Rumy...points 1 and 3, touche. I have nothing, haha. In the show only one other kg was with Arthur, but that doesn't change your point (as far as I can tell). Regarding point two, I always try to put myself in the characters shoes. Rhaegar originally thought that he was the ptwp, but as he grew older stopped believing it was him. Could this have to do with your best bud being a better knight than you could ever be? So, he could think about genes, the baddest knight, plus the baddest woman probably equals one tough pup. After all, the Targ had zero to do with fighting off the original white walkers...the starks and Dayne did it before. So he could have been playing match maker for the greater good. Or it could just be a weird misunderstanding/sabotage. After all, the game of thrones didn't start when Jon Arryn died. It's been going on forever.

Grufolo...the only thing I can think of is that Robert loved Lyanna, but more importantly Robert thought she loved him. He could see Jon as an abomination/rape baby/treason baby either way. Or he wouldn't believe he was Arthurs and just assume he's Rhaegar's anyway. All trouble for ned no matter how you swing it.

One more point to make/question would be...How is Jons hair dark, if he's Rhaegar's? They made a big deal how it was impossible for Robert to have blonde kids with a blonde woman? I get there will be some inconsistencies and red herrings, but I still think they at least want us to still debate this. Thanks for the replys.

Blonde/white hair occurs because of a recessive gene. Dark hair is a dominant gene. So unless the Starks carry the recessive gene for blonde hair their children would not have blonde hair same as Robert's children.

[Onion Hound]

Sorry guys, one more question. Why is it so important to the story that Arthur Dayne is the best? Why is it important that Ned didn't just beat him in single combat? Are we just supposed to look differently at Ned or are we supposed to think more of Arthur? I just don't understand why Arthur Dayne is a character if there's not something more to his story....any help?