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PhD: Bad Idea, Terrible Idea or the Very Worst of All Ideas?


Datepalm

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I can't follow the references, because I haven't read anything by Bakker that wasn't a strange, smug blog post in the better part of a decade, but the evident intellectual pleasure at creating them is shining through and is fun to watch. 

(Needless to say, I also deeply appreciate the actual advise and breakdown of the underlying logic, such as it is.) 

In contributing my miniscule amount of anecdotal data, btw, so far I've had 2/2 (actually very prompt) responses from US academics, though only to note that they had retired, or that they had not retired but are affiliated faculty and not involved in admissions. UK academics stand at 0.75/2, with one no-response and one request for a proposal which has gone unanswered since. 

ETA - the article about the auto-didactic physicists is interesting, though I don't think urban planning, a rather public-involving profession, has the same level of particularity as physics. ;-)

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On 9/15/2016 at 0:14 PM, Happy Ent said:

Oh, and since nobody else is saying it: My Bakker references in this thread are hilarious.

Co-sign.

 

ETA: DP, the one saying they're not in admissions - that might just be a stock-ish reply, or it might be a small red flag, depending on your email; in the sense that, for a certain chunk of these places, you are admitted to the program and then select/are selected/fall into your advisor & their research group, rather than it being a situation where you apply to work for a specific person.

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I agree with HE.

I do not read past the first paragraph of these cold-calling emails, and I am even more obscure as a researcher than HE. The signal-to-noise ratio is simply terrible. If I do not see that you understand the scope of my research and that you've positioned yourself to work in that scope within the first few sentences, I am unlikely to continue reading or even respond. Even if I do, it will take some marvelously good writing for me to read a full page of it.

 

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2 hours ago, Happy Ent said:

And yet we happily subject ourselves to the digestion of pages and pages of inane drivel about epic fantasy on this very board. What’s wrong with us?

Some corruption begs not the cloth, but the email filtering program.  

Sorry for derailing but I couldn't help myself.  DP, best of luck on the path you find yourself on.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, BLU-RAY said:

ETA: DP, the one saying they're not in admissions - that might just be a stock-ish reply, or it might be a small red flag, depending on your email; in the sense that, for a certain chunk of these places, you are admitted to the program and then select/are selected/fall into your advisor & their research group, rather than it being a situation where you apply to work for a specific person.

I think it's the case in most US institutions, as far as a I can tell, at least in the field I'm looking at. In this case, this is a person who's work I'm really, really interested in, but she's based in a different department, so I though I'd test the waters of this whole emailing people project with a relatively concrete question of whether she even works with students in planning. If the answer was a negative, I could have taken the place of the list. (Also, well, she's in her late 70s. I was wondering if her being missing from the 'affiliated faculty' page of the department was because she was planning to retire.) This interdisciplinary thing is tricky. One UK institution has an urban geography group, a development planning group and a transport research group. They are, respectively, housed under social sciences, architecture and engineering schools. I have 19 open tabs trying to figure out who to possibly get in touch with there.

3/3 responses from US! Yay! (I know it's meaningless in the long run, it's just nice to get some response, in the sense of not feeling as though on is throwing super-carefully phrased emails into the void.) I wonder if planning is just a very small field? It's not often taught at undergrad level, for one. I've only seen a few programs that even accept applications without an MA for PhD, and even then highly un-advise it, which apparently is common in other fields? So people aren't dealing with such huge floods? Though I would have thought it would be much harder to write a competent-sounding proposal in STEM fields than in social sciences.

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3/3, not bad, DP. If nothing else, I hope this gives you a clearer idea for a proper proposal in the near future. 

Question, peeps: 

Apparently, the studentship I applied to was moved for Jan. 2017 entry instead of Sept. 2016.  I sent an email to my supervisor and he had no idea about this; apparently this was an admin decision. (I'm speculating that the recent change in the PhD program chairmanship had something to do with this). Is it OK to call the PhD admin person (she's not the head, but she prepares the long list) to get this sorted out? I am still unsure if I was rejected (supervisor said it's unlikely right now) or if my application will be carried over to the new deadline or if I need to take the IELTS.  Recently, she sent me an email saying I have to take the IELTS in order to be considered for the studentship. I thought that my supervisor already sorted this out with her: he sent her an email saying he doesn't think I need it, but I would take the exam IF they offer me a place, and that his note should be part of my application. Hence, my confusion. (IELTS is requirement set by both the uni and the fricking British state for students from certain countries - I'm really annoyed by this for a lot of reasons, but that's another story). 

So be warned, DP. Admin shit can be confusing and expensive, at least in my experience. Similar thing happened to me when I moved to fortress EU on a student visa for my Masters - German embassy routed my papers to a different state, which almost cost me a semester.  Anyway, I wouldn't mind this limbo and confusing turn of events so much if not for certain immigration-related stuff that I have to do in Deutschland, which depends on whether or not I get this PhD in England. Ugh. 

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If theres someone who's in charge of all this administrative stuff specifically for a program you've already applied for which has now changed a bunch of stuff in an unclear way, definitely contact her, no? This is her job, or at least part of it, not some unclear extra obligation. At least find out if you need to reapply or what. (Sounds like the kind of thing that may be worth a phone/skype call rather than an email, even. Though that may be my Israeli informality talking and being all wrong, removed as I am in my parochial post-mandatory backwater from the hallowed halls of properly hierarchical and mannered Albion academia.) 

And oh fuck yeah, I know about the IELTS requirement and along with other highly unfriendly student visa horror stories i've heard (plus Brexit) it is a serious consideration for me against trying too hard with too many UK institutions and largely focusing on the US instead. I imagine that would be no friendly cakewalk in terms of being a foreign student either, but not as bad as the UK, which is also currently becoming even stricter, is at least my impression. (I did do the TOEFL a while back though so I've at least got that to get me through initial application stuff, I hope.) 

A friendish person of mine just got through trying to get through visa stuff for a London MPH (Queen Mary, actually, I think. If you run into him, well, you'll know. He'll whine,) some of it seems to have been of his own making, but he did have to get a tuberculosis test because he'd been living in Africa, but only at an officially recognized - by the UK - testing center, of which there are none in Israel. 

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Visas can be annoying as an international student. (It was, however, renewing my US Passport that caused the biggest hurdle last year: the US agency lost my passport in a bureaucratic nightmare.) I am still a doctoral student. I actually started my doctoral program in the United States several years ago, but when my doctoral adviser took a job here in Vienna, she offered me a predoctoral assistant position. As I applied to my previous program to study with her, I transferred to Vienna. (It was also cheaper financially, both in terms of the program and living costs, and a more stable, prestigious program with a paying job and office attached.) I was about to start my dissertation proposal when I transferred, and now I'm basically at the same stage here at my current program, but better off. (And much to my own surprise, I even met and began dating my absolutely splendid girlfriend here in Vienna less than a month after arriving.) Anyway... 

I would echo what HE, TP, Solo, and other academics have stated in this thread. Make connections early and be well-informed about the program and your intended adviser. Attend conferences, as you are doing. It can be expensive, but you should begin participating professionally anyway, even if you are just a spectator, if only, so you can keep abreast of the current research in the field, especially if your adviser is presenting. Sometimes your adviser may be famous for working on X, and you are also interested in X, but at this point in their lives, your adviser-to-be may be more interested in Y. You will be more appealing if you know their current points of interest. I met my adviser at the annual conference of my field. I even had my master's adviser formally introduce me to her since they were colleagues who knew each other from their time as doctoral students in Switzerland. 

Also, it's worth keeping your ear to ground regarding departmental politics. The school may seem great. The professor you want to work with may seem great. But you may find unknowingly find yourself in a hot mess if it turns out that the department is engaged in war between two (or more) professors who hate each other and are not averse to using their students as sacrificial pawns against each other. Students, recent grads, or even trusted professors who know are good people to ask about these sort of "unquantifiable scruples." 

Finally, be careful about casual mingling with professors at conferences. I often tell applicants pursuing either a masters or PhD that you should let your academic level and intentions be known at the outset. When students approach professors and say, "I would like you to be my adviser," professors hear two different things and tend to assume the worst. The meaning of "I would like you to be my academic adviser" differs depending on whether you are applying to the masters or doctoral level. Applying to the masters level, the above would translate to "Would you be willing to babysit me for a few years and help me get started walking?" In contrast, applying to the doctoral level, the above would translate to "Would you be willing to legally adopt me and have my name forever associated with yours?" Now that you know, you can also watch the reactions of professors as your fellow peers make this rookie mistake. 

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15 hours ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

Also, it's worth keeping your ear to ground regarding departmental politics. The school may seem great. The professor you want to work with may seem great. But you may find unknowingly find yourself in a hot mess if it turns out that the department is engaged in war between two (or more) professors who hate each other and are not averse to using their students as sacrificial pawns against each other. Students, recent grads, or even trusted professors who know are good people to ask about these sort of "unquantifiable scruples." 

Finally, be careful about casual mingling with professors at conferences. I often tell applicants pursuing either a masters or PhD that you should let your academic level and intentions be known at the outset. When students approach professors and say, "I would like you to be my adviser," professors hear two different things and tend to assume the worst. The meaning of "I would like you to be my academic adviser" differs depending on whether you are applying to the masters or doctoral level. Applying to the masters level, the above would translate to "Would you be willing to babysit me for a few years and help me get started walking?" In contrast, applying to the doctoral level, the above would translate to "Would you be willing to legally adopt me and have my name forever associated with yours?" Now that you know, you can also watch the reactions of professors as your fellow peers make this rookie mistake. 

Thanks for this! I realize I've probably spoken to a bunch of professors about it all, but maybe to one or two actual students. 

Which one is the worst? Be my babysitter, or adopt me for all eternity? Both sound pretty bleak when phrased that way. Departmental politics sounds dire, and along with that, what I really want to find is some way of ferreting out in advance, as much as possible, is where a place stands with research assistantships and where they have, or expect to have, active projects and connections with the groups and multilaterals that fund most of the kind of research (and implementation) I'm interested in, without seeming like all I want from a PhD is a chance to go hang out in Africa some more. (It's not! But it is important, given that continuing into a purely academic career afterwards is highly unlikely to impossible, from what I can tell.) 

Meanwhile - UK improving slightly vis a vis USA on the Academics-Respond-to-Datepalm's-Emails scale! Followup email to the same two people yielded a first response from one, putting UK at 1.5/2. (I feel like I ought to be looking at Europe much harder, but the place to go for studying transport in the EU is the Netherlands (it is to international consulting on transportation planning as Sweden is to the Eurovision, for some reason,) and I've lived there before and kind of don't want to again. Nothing it did, just not again.)

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Also, when polling individuals about their opinion on other people or institutions, remember that  most academics are crazy people. They system selects for lack of interpersonal skills, coupled with extreme powers of self-rationalisation, and high verbal intelligence. (It’s a bit like Israel.) So you need at least two sources of information.

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/completely offtopic

19 hours ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

Vienna

Wow, there is BWB presence in Vienna? I did not know that, are there other forum people in Austria too? Have there ever been any meet-ups there?

/sorry. Continue with your regularly scheduled smart interesting PhD talk.

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5 hours ago, Datepalm said:

Thanks for this! I realize I've probably spoken to a bunch of professors about it all, but maybe to one or two actual students. 

Which one is the worst? Be my babysitter, or adopt me for all eternity? Both sound pretty bleak when phrased that way. Departmental politics sounds dire, and along with that, what I really want to find is some way of ferreting out in advance, as much as possible, is where a place stands with research assistantships and where they have, or expect to have, active projects and connections with the groups and multilaterals that fund most of the kind of research (and implementation) I'm interested in, without seeming like all I want from a PhD is a chance to go hang out in Africa some more. (It's not! But it is important, given that continuing into a purely academic career afterwards is highly unlikely to impossible, from what I can tell.) 

"Doctoral adoption" is the worst (and potentially the best), since it's a long-term commitment of professional association that is either mutually beneficial or catastrophic. 

A good way of ferreting out those things you mention is through admissions and the students. Although students occasionally try convincing themselves through convincing others that they made a good choice in schools, students can also be brutally honest about problems, pitfalls, and opportunities their schools provide. 

 

1 hour ago, Buckwheat said:

/completely offtopic

Wow, there is BWB presence in Vienna? I did not know that, are there other forum people in Austria too? Have there ever been any meet-ups there?

/sorry. Continue with your regularly scheduled smart interesting PhD talk.

There are definitely other posters in Austria too, though their names escape my mind at present. Vienna Comic Con in Mid-November may be a good time and location to meet up, especially since GoT's Kristian Nairn (aka Hodor) will be attending. 

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Went and called the administrator lady and I got more problems. She told me that my German Masters grade was not good enough; that it's hard merit instead of with distinction. She also said that the equivalent of with distinction in Germany is 1, which is hilarious because nobody gets 1 here.  I checked with the uni office that deals with this, and the guy in charge of the grade equivalencies told me that I defo have with distinction, based on their own calculation and Naric's, the UK agency that checks overseas qualifications and equivalencies. (The guy cannot send me an email confirmation because he does not want to intervene with the admissions process, yet). Shall I notify my PhD supervisor of this? I find this quite alarming. I would totally hate it if this woman's own judgment excludes me from the long list. 

Another thing, the PhD admissions office also said that I do not have to get an IELTS if I will not be using the T4 student visa to enter the UK and use other visas such as spousal/fiance/unmarried/family reunion. (Context: Mr. Eyelesbarrow is Brit, I have family in England). The faculty also has the discretion to waive the IELTs requirement if they think the candidate has sufficient English level (my supervisor already made a note on my application that this is a waste of my time and money).  But according to this admin, because I am a non-EU national, I should get a T4 visa, nevermind that I have other options (just for the sake of argument). I know that administration people have to tick boxes but life is messy and some applicants like yours truly do not fit cleanly into their admin boxes. Long story short, I have to get an IELTS.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Eyelesbarrow said:

Went and called the administrator lady and I got more problems. She told me that my German Masters grade was not good enough; that it's hard merit instead of with distinction. She also said that the equivalent of with distinction in Germany is 1, which is hilarious because nobody gets 1 here.  I checked with the uni office that deals with this, and the guy in charge of the grade equivalencies told me that I defo have with distinction, based on their own calculation and Naric's, the UK agency that checks overseas qualifications and equivalencies. (The guy cannot send me an email confirmation because he does not want to intervene with the admissions process, yet). Shall I notify my PhD supervisor of this? I find this quite alarming. I would totally hate it if this woman's own judgment excludes me from the long list. 

Another thing, the PhD admissions office also said that I do not have to get an IELTS if I will not be using the T4 student visa to enter the UK and use other visas such as spousal/fiance/unmarried/family reunion. (Context: Mr. Eyelesbarrow is Brit, I have family in England). The faculty also has the discretion to waive the IELTs requirement if they think the candidate has sufficient English level (my supervisor already made a note on my application that this is a waste of my time and money).  But according to this admin, because I am a non-EU national, I should get a T4 visa, nevermind that I have other options (just for the sake of argument). I know that administration people have to tick boxes but life is messy and some applicants like yours truly do not fit cleanly into their admin boxes. Long story short, I have to get an IELTS.

 

 

Which institution is this? Because if the faculty is ok with your paperwork, the admin in the dept should be guided by them.

Wrt to visas, thanks to T May in her Home Office days, the student visa situation is a mess so the admin may be sincerely doing her best there. Again, though, the uni/faculty should be figuring that out at a higher level.

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16 minutes ago, Angalin said:

Which institution is this? Because if the faculty is ok with your paperwork, the admin in the dept should be guided by them.

Wrt to visas, thanks to T May in her Home Office days, the student visa situation is a mess so the admin may be sincerely doing her best there. Again, though, the uni/faculty should be figuring that out at a higher level.

I have been in touch with the PhD administrator of the School of Business and Management of the uni. She accepts the applications and checks to see if the admin requirements are there, among other tasks. She also prepares the long list.  But I am not sure if she makes the decision on what to put on the grade equivalent, which is now my main worry. Unless the faculty has its own calculation. But it appears not because she said it's set by the uni and they follow the Naric calculations. 

I'm kind of resigned now to the visa situation - pick your battles and all that. I also understand that this has a lot to do with T May's immigration pledges. Anyway, I have registered for an IELTS exam in Oct. 

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1 hour ago, Eyelesbarrow said:

 

 

Yeah, I've been looking at Masters options in the UK - It seems like *anyone* who wants a Tier 4 Visa needs to take the iELTS. Unless you're from the handful of countries that have English as their official language. 

The US universities seem way better about this than the UK universities ( lots of US universities seem okay with waiving my IELTS/ TOEFL due to my IB Diploma or the fact that my university's language of instruction is English)  - It might be the Home office that enforces the IELTS rule as opposed to the universities. 

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Sorry to hear you're going to have to go the more complicated way round to get this sorted, Eyelesbarrow. How frustrating.

Student visas for the UK have become much tougher to get over the last couple of years, and yes, it's part of the immigration rule changes. It's making UK universities a lot less attractive: I've noticed people already here with student visas are more likely to look elsewhere for their next degrees, like Canada or the States. Student visa issues plus Brexit are really going to change what research/academia look like here and not in a good way, IMO. :(  

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