UK Politics: The Love Song of A. B. de Pfeffel Johnson

[Chaircat Meow]

Cameron is doing one last PMQs on Wednesday then going to see the Queen. So May will be PM by Wednesday night.

[DaveSumm]

Has anyone ever had an easier job of becoming PM? She basically put her feet up and let all her rivals destroy one another.

[Which Tyler]

I'm just impressed that he's found a removals company willing to work at such short notice!

[DaveSumm]

"Do-doooooooo.......doo dooooooo. Right."

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

Has anyone ever had an easier job of becoming PM? She basically put her feet up and let all her rivals destroy one another.

She declared formally for Remain, but played no part in the Remain campaign.  So, Cameron and Osborne took all the flak from Leave supporters.

Then Gove destroyed her only serious rival, in the vain belief that he had it in him to be Leader.

The first was calculation.  The second was a stroke of luck she couldn't have anticipated.

Now, we'll see if she's actually any good.

 

[SeanF]

This amused me.

https://twitter.com/PeteMC666/status/752509729193205760/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[polishgenius]

Quite amused by the footage of Angela Eagle taking questions from an empty room as all the people covering her launch ran out when Leadsom resigned.

 

Since the much-discussed 'electability' is 90% image, she's finished already even if she won.

[Maltaran]

I'm impressed by how efficient the Tories are compared to Labour - in the 2 weeks between the Shadow Cabinet resigning and Eagle actually making a leadership challenge, the Tories have nominated, had two rounds of balloting, and selected their new leader.

[Hereward]

2 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Labour seem to have odd definitions of 'unelectable'. Apparently Corbyn is, but people like Eagle and Milliband aren't. Except, slight annoying detail, Milliband quite spectacularly didn't get elected. He did terribly. 

 

Yes, he was awful, because he was considered to be both too left-wing for middle England, and too out of touch with Labour's heartland working class support. Is any of this ringing any bells?

[ljkeane]

3 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Labour seem to have odd definitions of 'unelectable'. Apparently Corbyn is, but people like Eagle and Milliband aren't. Except, slight annoying detail, Milliband quite spectacularly didn't get elected. He did terribly. 

 

I don't think Ed Miliband was viewed as particularly electable by a significant proportion of the party apparatus, his brother was the electable one, but he was the candidate the unions supported and given he won the leadership contest the party decided to get behind him. I'm not sure about whether Eagle is particularly electable but Corbyn clearly isn't, and he can't gather enough support amongst MPs to put together a shadow cabinet to even put up the pretence of being a capable opposition so I don't really see the point of him.

[Maltaran]

2 minutes ago, Hereward said:

Yes, he was awful, because he was considered to be both too left-wing for middle England, and too out of touch with Labour's heartland working class support. Is any of this ringing any bells?

Most of the PLP hit at least one of those two.

[Hereward]

Just now, Maltaran said:

Most of the PLP hit at least one of those two.

True, but some take it to extremes, see Corbyn, Jeremy and Abbott, Diane.

I don't actually think that left-wing economic policies are beyond the pale anymore, but left-wing policies on defence, international relations and the constitution probably still are. That still leaves plenty of traditional Labour MPs from Yorkshire, Lancashire and the West Midlands who could rebuild the party's support.

[Shryke]

5 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

 

I don't think Ed Miliband was viewed as particularly electable by a significant proportion of the party apparatus, his brother was the electable one, but he was the candidate the unions supported and given he won the leadership contest the party decided to get behind him. I not sure about whether Eagle is particularly electable but Corbyn clearly isn't, and he can't gather enough support amongst MPs to put together a shadow cabinet to even put up the pretence of being a capable opposition so I don't really see the point of him.

One of the complaints from Labour MPs seems to be that he doesn't even care much about winning, which they don't seem to like.

[Talleyrand]

1 hour ago, Hereward said:

True, but some take it to extremes, see Corbyn, Jeremy and Abbott, Diane.

I don't actually think that left-wing economic policies are beyond the pale anymore, but left-wing policies on defence, international relations and the constitution probably still are. That still leaves plenty of traditional Labour MPs from Yorkshire, Lancashire and the West Midlands who could rebuild the party's support.

Exactly, I'm all for standing by your principles and not abandoning them just to get ahead but Corbyn has got to realise he isn't exactly doing the rest of party any favours whenever he starts talking about the Falklands.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I'd argue that Labour lost 2015 because voters still held Labour responsible for being in power during the Financial Crisis. Milliband's "neither here nor there" stances essentially allowed the Tories to push their narrative of "the problem was Labour overspending". That particular myth needed to be combated head on, but buying into an "austerity is necessary" line was not the way to do it - it surrendered the framing to the Tories. Rather, the fault lay with decades of deregulation, but Milliband wasn't yet prepared to go there.

In any case, it remains a mystery how Neil Kinnock of all people can suddenly feel free to bash someone else's electability.   

[mormont]

2 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

In any case, it remains a mystery how Neil Kinnock of all people can suddenly feel free to bash someone else's electability.   

Presumably because his leadership was largely spent and defined by salvaging a party riven by divisions after the election of an ineffectual, unsuccessful, and unelectable left-wing leader, so he knows one when he sees one.

[SeanF]

18 hours ago, Hereward said:

Yes, he was awful, because he was considered to be both too left-wing for middle England, and too out of touch with Labour's heartland working class support. Is any of this ringing any bells?

The problem for Labour is that quite a lot of their more moderate MPs are equally out of touch with the electorate.  The cause they are rallying round, to get rid of Corbyn, is remaining in the EU - the one issue on which Corbyn is actually closer to public opinion than they are.  And, they share Corbyn's enthusiasm for mass immigration.  It didn't occur to them that while they were "rubbing the Right's face in diversity", they'd be rubbing their own supporters' faces in it as well.

[Shryke]

This seems relevant re: Corbyn's support

http://election-data.co.uk/poll-of-trade-union-members

[mormont]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

The problem for Labour is that quite a lot of their more moderate MPs are equally out of touch with the electorate.  The cause they are rallying round, to get rid of Corbyn, is remaining in the EU - the one issue on which Corbyn is actually closer to public opinion than they are. 

Corbyn's position on the EU isn't really close to the general public's in any substantial way: in fact it's arguably ideologically further away than those of his MPs who backed Remain.

The obligatory reminder - Corbyn's position was and is still publicly stated as Remain with reservations, not Leave. But more importantly, the reservations Corbyn has about the EU are completely different to those held by most of the general public. Most of the general public had reservations focused around immigration and political integration. Corbyn is in favour of more immigration: his reservations about the EU are to do with being ideologically opposed to the free market, which is the bit most of the general public actually liked.

To be fair, he also dislikes the power of the European Commission as an unaccountable body, which is the one area - and it really is the only one - where he and the general public agreed on Europe. But in general, Corbyn's position on the EU is a pure coincidence with public opinion, rather than actually being in touch with it. He certainly has nothing to say to Labour voters concerned with immigration.

[Cadiva]

8 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

I'd argue that Labour lost 2015 because voters still held Labour responsible for being in power during the Financial Crisis. Milliband's "neither here nor there" stances essentially allowed the Tories to push their narrative of "the problem was Labour overspending". That particular myth needed to be combated head on, but buying into an "austerity is necessary" line was not the way to do it - it surrendered the framing to the Tories. Rather, the fault lay with decades of deregulation, but Milliband wasn't yet prepared to go there.

In any case, it remains a mystery how Neil Kinnock of all people can suddenly feel free to bash someone else's electability.   

Couldn't agree more. The narrative was set by the Tories and Labour never adequately challenged it and it all rested on the economy and Labour being at fault for a global recession.

Then we never offered up any alternative to the austerity lie and while I voted Labour as I have done since I turned 18 because on the whole I've generally found my views to mostly match the party, it was another GE where I was doing it with clenched teeth (Blair's 2nd term, Brown's first being the others) over a fair bit.

Corbyn, whether "electable" or not, is the nearest to what it says on my membership card of being a democratic socialist and that's why he's got my support and will keep it. He and those of his like mind are finally offering an alternative narrative to the centre-right "Tory lite" policies of the past two GEs.

Joe Public may still reject that narrative but for the first time in quite a while there will hopefully be a message that isn't indistinguishable from that of the Conservatives in a lot of areas.

This seems relevant re: Corbyn's support

http://election-data.co.uk/poll-of-trade-union-members

It's interesting but I'm a little surprised why myself, as a YouGov member and member of Unite, didn't get an email asking me to take part in this particular survey given it's all available to YouGov to sample. I wonder how many others didn't?