Will Jaime amd/or Brienne survive early WoW?

[dariopatke]

So they are in interesting situation and it would be comical for everyone to just walk out peacefully and happy. I think someone has to die at the beggining of the book. At least Pod, but I think someone of our POV duo will have to die for the plot to progress and this seems to be good exit for some important character.

What do you think with happen wih them in first chapters? Will both survive? If not who will die and how?

[Curled Finger]

I think Brienne is not without at least one compassionate sympathizer who is unhappy with LSH in the LSH camp.  And there is Gendry who may or may not care that Brienne acted to save him.    He seems to have become a big grump since joining the BWB.  There are wildcards in the Blackfish and Sandor Clegane who really could just show up anywhere.   Would Jamie's men think to follow him with this strange woman?  Yes, I think there are plenty of possible saves for Brienne and Jamie.   Surviving is a relative term considering B&J are enroute to Thoros, who may still be able to give the kiss of life and LSH who is suspected to have at least 1 good kiss left.   Theoretically, they could BOTH die and still get up fighting.   I think they both have much yet to do in the story, so no, even if they die I don't expect them to stay that way.  Then again, I don't expect them to die either.  

You just want to kill poor Pod off so you can watch the sparks fly between Jamie & Hyle.   If Hyle lives that will undoubtedly be quite funny and irritating to Brienne to no end.    Hyle is just stupid enough to goad Jamie.   I say kill off LSH instead of Pod.   

This set up drives me nuts every time I reread the series.  However it goes down with the BWB and anyone else who comes along, I anticipate a brilliant and hopefully not heart breaking end to this chapter in the adventures of Brienne & Jamie.   

I have to ask, why does one of them have to die to progress the plot? 

[dariopatke]

I didnt say I want Pod dead, quite eposite. I agree LSH is the one who should die, she is abomination.

I think Brynden will end up there and if he arrives in time he can perhaps do something. And I dont want Sandor to leave QI, let him live his days in peace.

Well there are too many POVs and it is really not GRRM like for this many characters to meet and everyone to survive. Again if you ask me I would prefer LSH to die and Brienne and Jaime are one of my favourite characters, he is the most complex and she is the purest, but I think there are way too many characters now and no one important didnt die since Tywin. Well maybe Quentyn did, but that is another story.

How will plot progress? It will change character that lives.

[Quillon]

Best case scenario: LSH could threaten Jaime with Brienne and ask him to kill Cercei, Brienne and Pod remains hostage, Jaime is en route to KL.

[Castellan]

I think one or both of them will be undead like Beric and LSH. Brienne already could be if she choked out 'Sword' too late. LSH would cut her down and revive her. I don't think so, but its possible. I think LSH will try Jaime for breaking his oath to her about her daughters, he'll die with Oathbreaker to the heart and be revived. 

[Dolorous22]

I'd be furious if either die early in tWoW. Furious. I hope LSH gives the pair a 'quest!'   

[aryagonnakill#2]

My hope is for LSH to convince Jaime, probably using Brienne's life to assist them with the Red Wedding 2.0 at Riverrun, or if that is handled separately then perhaps to get them into the Twins.

I feel certain Jaime has more story left, and I kinda think Brienne has 1 or 2 more important things to do also.  However I can't see LSH just up and dying before accomplishing anything, I mean we got 2 little scenes with her and that is just not worth bringing her back from the dead.

[HairGrowsBack]

It's not the first time I'm expressing my opinion on the matter but I maintain Brienne kills LSH, thus paralleling Jaime killing Aerys. It would seem one (or both) gravely wounded and/or one of her companions dying is likely, else it would look like they "got off easy". 

[zorkman]

LSH will kill Jamie & bring him back from the dead with her or replacing her.

[Curled Finger]

16 hours ago, dariopatke said:

I didnt say I want Pod dead, quite eposite. I agree LSH is the one who should die, she is abomination.

I think Brynden will end up there and if he arrives in time he can perhaps do something. And I dont want Sandor to leave QI, let him live his days in peace.

Well there are too many POVs and it is really not GRRM like for this many characters to meet and everyone to survive. Again if you ask me I would prefer LSH to die and Brienne and Jaime are one of my favourite characters, he is the most complex and she is the purest, but I think there are way too many characters now and no one important didnt die since Tywin. Well maybe Quentyn did, but that is another story.

How will plot progress? It will change character that lives.

I was teasing about Pod.   I can't imagine  anyone wanting Pod to die.   Just a segway to Hyle.   

We've already lost Aeron's POV, so there is 1 down.   Vic's future isn't looking so sunny either.   I had an old topic, Merging storylines over in the Winds of Winter subforum.   The premise was to determine how POVs can be trimmed and still get the story told.   A very smart young lady, @dornishdame, went to great lengths to help me understand that POVs will be ended when their part of the story is told.   Sure Jamie or Brienne or both could die and that could be it.  But I have to ask, do you really think neither of them serve the story beyond this encounter with LSH and the BWB?   You're already thinking Uncle Blackfish will show up so I suspect you've still got plans for the dynamic duo.   And they are dynamic.   They play off each other and really bring the very best of each other to the surface.   If we got an opportunity to see both of them team up with say the BWB with new leadership or even just with Blackfish how cool could that be!   Holy cow, all the possible outcomes I've imagined, it would be good just to see J&B hanging out with Hyle & Pod.   But I think there is a reason they're meeting up again under these circumstances.   Our POVs are merging but I really hope to keep both in this case because they have such different perspectives on things.   But I will hand it to you, the death of either Jamie or Brienne will absolutely have an impact on the survivor.    

Yep, Tywin was the last superstar to die since none of us believe Jon is dead gone forever dead.   Take heart dariopatke, I promise you there will be death o'plenty in Winds.    Here is to LSH being the 1st in a very long line!  

[Elisabetta Duò]

23 hours ago, dariopatke said:

So they are in interesting situation and it would be comical for everyone to just walk out peacefully and happy. I think someone has to die at the beggining of the book. At least Pod, but I think someone of our POV duo will have to die for the plot to progress and this seems to be good exit for some important character.

What do you think with happen wih them in first chapters? Will both survive? If not who will die and how?

I think Brienne will survive. I think Jamie might die (pity bc i kinda ship them), but if he dies, it will not be until he kills Cersei,

Spoiler

which will likely happen at the end of S7 in Got and so not in the early stages of TWOW, given that the show is ahead of the books (even if it postponed Jamie 'turning' on Cersei)

. I don't think Podd will die either

[Castellan]

There is quite a long time gap since Jaime went missing even by the end of AFFC isn't there? I mean its at least a few weeks which means whatever happens at the BWB (presuming Brienne takes him there) didn't end with him immediately reappearing and heading for Lannister forces. So he must be dead, still in their custody, or on a mission.

[HairGrowsBack]

On 03/07/2016 at 3:42 AM, Castellan said:

There is quite a long time gap since Jaime went missing even by the end of AFFC isn't there? I mean its at least a few weeks which means whatever happens at the BWB (presuming Brienne takes him there) didn't end with him immediately reappearing and heading for Lannister forces. So he must be dead, still in their custody, or on a mission.

If he were dead, the BwB would've been shouting it from the rooftops, imo.

[Knight of Onions]

I think Brienne at least will live. It would be a rather sudden conclusion to her storyline if she dies. While that alone doesn't stop GRRM from killing characters off, unlike Robb her death wouldn't matter much in the great scheme.

I hope Jaime lives as well, as he is one of my favourite characters. It would be tragic to see his redemption arc cut off by the merciless and vengeful Lady Stoneheart. It's something I could actually see GRRM doing, in order to subvert the redemption trope.

[Quillon]

Beside their survivals, I can't wait to see Jaime's reaction to undead-gruesome Catelyn. Could he reconsider his belief that there are no gods? I wouldn't want him to be a follower of LoL but could happen, prolly won't tho : p

[The Sleeper]

1 hour ago, Quillon said:

Beside their survivals, I can't wait to see Jaime's reaction to undead-gruesome Catelyn. Could he reconsider his belief that there are no gods? I wouldn't want him to be a follower of LoL but could happen, prolly won't tho : p

Yup, that would be something to see.

I'd be thinking about it. Despite what many people assume Lady Stoneheart has not lost her wits. She's going to milk both Brienne and Jaime for everything they are worth. Jaime will remain a hostage as she has correctly surmised that Brienne is in love with him and can't be trusted on her own. Brienne being with her sword and the letter from Tommen can get into a lot of places.

There is also the chance that we may get to see Greywater Watch through Jaime as that would be the one place he cannot escape from.

[Protagoras]

Briennes storyline really has nowhere to go. It is already over with the reunion between her, Cat and Jaime (what I consider the endgame due to the previous history between the characters, a "to go forward you must go back" moment). She has already been through Westeros searching and interacting with the smallfolk. What will her arc be otherwise if she survive this? Interacting more with Jaime? A romance? Naah. This givves us as reader very little and again, Brienne have already had a pretty pointless solo adventure, I can´t see reason for a second try.

Jaime on the other hand is needed for his interaction with cersei, possible Valonqar and his "redemption" arc.

Therefore, I speculate that Brienne will die. Not directly, of course but I see Jaime as the sole survivor from a clusterfuck, including war in the riverlands and liberation of Riverrun that will take at least half of WoW to resolve.

[Scorpion92]

Well, I believe their storyline with Lady Stoneheart will culminate in Jaime getting killed and then resurrected and Brienne killing Lady Stoneheart with Oathkeeper.

Jaime becomes the new leader of Brotherhood without Banners and protects small folk from Dothraki aggressors and Essosi invaders once Dany arrives in Westeros.

[Springwatch]

I see Brienne as Jaime's version of "The Just Maid", a legendary sword which was unbeatable, but only used three times. So I predict three quests for Brienne, and both she and Jaime are going to be absolutely fine for ages yet.

[dornishdame]

On 7/3/2016 at 1:11 AM, Curled Finger said:

I was teasing about Pod.   I can't imagine  anyone wanting Pod to die.   Just a segway to Hyle.   

We've already lost Aeron's POV, so there is 1 down.   Vic's future isn't looking so sunny either.   I had an old topic, Merging storylines over in the Winds of Winter subforum.   The premise was to determine how POVs can be trimmed and still get the story told.   A very smart young lady, @dornishdame, went to great lengths to help me understand that POVs will be ended when their part of the story is told.   Sure Jamie or Brienne or both could die and that could be it.  But I have to ask, do you really think neither of them serve the story beyond this encounter with LSH and the BWB?   You're already thinking Uncle Blackfish will show up so I suspect you've still got plans for the dynamic duo.   And they are dynamic.   They play off each other and really bring the very best of each other to the surface.   If we got an opportunity to see both of them team up with say the BWB with new leadership or even just with Blackfish how cool could that be!   Holy cow, all the possible outcomes I've imagined, it would be good just to see J&B hanging out with Hyle & Pod.   But I think there is a reason they're meeting up again under these circumstances.   Our POVs are merging but I really hope to keep both in this case because they have such different perspectives on things.   But I will hand it to you, the death of either Jamie or Brienne will absolutely have an impact on the survivor.    

Yep, Tywin was the last superstar to die since none of us believe Jon is dead gone forever dead.   Take heart dariopatke, I promise you there will be death o'plenty in Winds.    Here is to LSH being the 1st in a very long line!  

I don't want it to happen, but I do see potential for Pod to be killed in the skirmish I think is inevitable when Brienne returns to Lady Stoneheart with Jaime.  Brienne was ordered to kill Jaime or she would hang for treason - should she return with a live Jaime as I suspect she will do - then it will come to swords. Brienne's Feast chapters feature mentions of Brienne training Pod to fight, and I think the loyalty that led him to slay Ser Mandon Moore at the Blackwater to save Tyrion may lead him to try and fight against the Brotherhood to help Brienne. 

Jaime does, I think, have a destiny beyond his meeting with Lady Stoneheart and the Brotherhood - Jaime as the Valonqar makes the most narrative sense, and he is the one person Cersei would never guard herself against.  She sees Jaime as part of her and it adds to the pathos of Cersei being the architect of her own downfall.  Now, to be the valonqar, Jaime has to survive the coming encounter with Lady Stoneheart.  Should Brienne sacrifice herself for him, I think that Jaime would feel honor-bound to make the most of the sparing of his life.  

I have always leaned towards Winds being bloody.  Before Westeros can finally unite against the real threat, they have to complete the tearing itself to shreds arc, and that means death.  Particularly the death of innocents.  I can see how the death of Brienne would fit in the senseless slaughter in the Riverlands, but I am not yet convinced she will die.  It may also work towards some of the remaining Brotherhood turning on Lady Stoneheart.  I don't see her lasting through Winds either.  But before she is done, I think that Lady Stoneheart will do her damnedest to avenge the Red Wedding.