Major Houses Dying out...

[MoonKnight21]

So some major houses are extinct/on the brink of extinction: 

Housr Baratheon : extinct

House Lannister: Jamie is of the kingsguard, unlikely (not impossible though) that he will father any more children. Only hope here is Tyrion. Cersei too old to have another child? 

House Tyrell: for show purposes is extinct

House Martel: exstinct 

House Greyjoy: Balon's last son cant procreate, hopes lie with his crackpot brother.

House Stark: Only male heir is a cripple and unlikely to father any son. 

House Tully: Edmure a prisoner (for how long ?), has one child, may possibly survive. 

Targ: Dany is barren and can't have children, is Jon a trueborn or bastard? 

Arryn: SweetRobin lives. 

Does anyone else see the story move to desolution of the feudal system and instillation of a more democratic society?

 

[brantarg]

I really don't like that many of the major houses are dying out, the only major house that can die out is house Lannister.

[King Jon Snow Stark]

Apparently the houses can survive through a daughter like the Queen of the UK who is a member of the House of Windsor and so are her children but her Husband isn't a Windsor. 

[Zoo_Dane]

There are lesser branches of houses that can carry on the name. Admittedly I don't remember exactly what book it occurred in or where the scene took place but I do remember Tywin/Jamie/Cersei speaking negatively about a person they were with because they were from lesser branch of the Lannisters. I would have to imagine a lot of these houses have lesser branches of their house as well. 

These houses are thousands of years old and have survived hundreds of conflicts. I would have to imagine most have been decimated like this before in some way. Either through a female, legitimized bastard, cousin, lesser branch, whatever it may be these houses must've found a way to survive similar situations at some point in history. 

[sj4iy]

The Bolton line is also extinct, and I would imagine that the Arryn line is teetering on the brink of extinction with Robin being its only heir.  Right now it's essentially civil war all throughout Westeros.  Power voids will no doubt happen and be filled by those who are opportunistic and strong enough to do so.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Presumably, several unnamed minor houses have also been dealt major blows after the last episode:

1. House Frey will surely be in disarray after the deaths of Walder, black Walder and Lothar.  I think it's likely Arya isn't even done with the Freys yet.

2. the Battle of the Bastards killed a lot of people.

3. The Sept of Baelor would have been packed with many VIP's for the two trials. All gone now.

When it's all done, assuming there's anyone still standing, other minor houses will rise up and fill the vacuum left by the great houses' demise.  e.g. House Tyrell after the field of fire wiped out House Gardener.

[Gertrude]

On 7/2/2016 at 2:00 PM, MoonKnight21 said:

So some major houses are extinct/on the brink of extinction: 

Housr Baratheon : extinct

House Lannister: Jamie is of the kingsguard, unlikely (not impossible though) that he will father any more children. Only hope here is Tyrion. Cersei too old to have another child? 

House Tyrell: for show purposes is extinct

House Martel: exstinct 

House Greyjoy: Balon's last son cant procreate, hopes lie with his crackpot brother.

House Stark: Only male heir is a cripple and unlikely to father any son. 

House Tully: Edmure a prisoner (for how long ?), has one child, may possibly survive. 

Targ: Dany is barren and can't have children, is Jon a trueborn or bastard? 

Arryn: SweetRobin lives. 

Does anyone else see the story move to desolution of the feudal system and instillation of a more democratic society?

 

I assume this is show? I think your definition of bloodline is too narrow.

Lannister - Jaime is not Kingsguard anymore (though I don't see him fathering more children at this point, but possible)

Martell - the Sand Snakes have Oberyn's blood and appear to have undisputed power at this point, so that line will continue. Not sure who takes it, but it looks like Ellaria is calling the shots, so my guess is Tyene.

Greyjoy - Yara likes women, but that doesn't mean she can't get pregnant. Renly was expected to continue the line, same with Yara

Stark - The line can continue through the Sansa or Arya, or even Jon. He's got Stark blood, even if it's not Ned's

Targ - Dany's fertility, or lack thereof, is only theoretical and not really a thing in the show. Highly likely to reproduce

 

Unless there are cousins we haven't learned about, Baratheon and Tyrell seem to be extinct (show version). In the books, the only house that seems in immediate danger is Baratheon, and possible Targ if you believe Dany is the last hope there and that she is barren. I don't believe either, so I think Targs are fine. Sweet Robin is fragile, but he does have one heir of the Arryn line. The connection goes back a few generations, but it's the same bloodline.

I do think one of the overarching themes of the books is that the older generation is being killed off to make room for the younger generation to be the movers and shakers. The board is being reset and no matter what the outcome of the war of the dawn is, Westeros is going to be a very different place.

 

[ValrianSunni]

On July 2, 2016 at 3:00 PM, MoonKnight21 said:

So some major houses are extinct/on the brink of extinction: 

Housr Baratheon : extinct

House Lannister: Jamie is of the kingsguard, unlikely (not impossible though) that he will father any more children. Only hope here is Tyrion. Cersei too old to have another child? 

House Tyrell: for show purposes is extinct

House Martel: exstinct 

House Greyjoy: Balon's last son cant procreate, hopes lie with his crackpot brother.

House Stark: Only male heir is a cripple and unlikely to father any son. 

House Tully: Edmure a prisoner (for how long ?), has one child, may possibly survive. 

Targ: Dany is barren and can't have children, is Jon a trueborn or bastard? 

Arryn: SweetRobin lives. 

Does anyone else see the story move to desolution of the feudal system and instillation of a more democratic society?

 

You forgot the Casterlys of Casterly Rock

The Hightowers of Highgarden and Old Town

The Reigns of Castermere

The families die out but other families rise up and take their places and the feudal system lives on. As progressive as Dany is (freeing the slaves and all), I don't see her starting a democracy and I don't see Westeros functioning as one.

[Lurid Jester]

Don't really think any of the houses are going extinct (with the exception of maybe the Boltons, although that's largely Ramsey's fault).  

Maybe specific branches of the houses, but these are vast family trees.  There are cadet branches, second cousins on their fathers side, whatever.  

There are more Lannisters, and Tyrells, etc.. Just not any that ever expected to find themselves in a position of real power within the house.  

[LordImp]

The Tyrells and Lannisters have branches , in the books at least . 

The Greyjoys are doomed if Yara dies, Euron must die and Theon dosent have a dick. Unless Theon has a bastard with the captains daughter he fucked in s2.

 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

42 minutes ago, LordImp said:

The Tyrells and Lannisters have branches , in the books at least . 

The Greyjoys are doomed if Yara dies, Euron must die and Theon dosent have a dick. Unless Theon has a bastard with the captains daughter he fucked in s2.

 

The Greyjoys have several members in the books.

Euron has an army of bastards and Asha mentions Greyjoy cousins.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

On July 4, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Gertrude said:

I assume this is show? I think your definition of bloodline is too narrow.

Lannister - Jaime is not Kingsguard anymore (though I don't see him fathering more children at this point, but possible)

Martell - the Sand Snakes have Oberyn's blood and appear to have undisputed power at this point, so that line will continue. Not sure who takes it, but it looks like Ellaria is calling the shots, so my guess is Tyene.

Greyjoy - Yara likes women, but that doesn't mean she can't get pregnant. Renly was expected to continue the line, same with Yara

Stark - The line can continue through the Sansa or Arya, or even Jon. He's got Stark blood, even if it's not Ned's

Targ - Dany's fertility, or lack thereof, is only theoretical and not really a thing in the show. Highly likely to reproduce

 

Unless there are cousins we haven't learned about, Baratheon and Tyrell seem to be extinct (show version). In the books, the only house that seems in immediate danger is Baratheon, and possible Targ if you believe Dany is the last hope there and that she is barren. I don't believe either, so I think Targs are fine. Sweet Robin is fragile, but he does have one heir of the Arryn line. The connection goes back a few generations, but it's the same bloodline.

I do think one of the overarching themes of the books is that the older generation is being killed off to make room for the younger generation to be the movers and shakers. The board is being reset and no matter what the outcome of the war of the dawn is, Westeros is going to be a very different place.

 

Nah. Someone can legitimize Edric and Mya or Gendry and it's all good 

[Lord Lyman]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Nah. Someone can legitimize Edric and Mya or Gendry and it's all good 

Edric yes, Mya maybe, Gendry no. You would actually have to prove who Gendry's father is and only a handful of people in Westeros may know its Robert.

[LordImp]

43 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

The Greyjoys have several members in the books.

Euron has an army of bastards and Asha mentions Greyjoy cousins.

The two Greyjoy cousins died at Deepwoode Motte. 

[JLE]

52 minutes ago, Lord Lyman said:

Edric yes, Mya maybe, Gendry no. You would actually have to prove who Gendry's father is and only a handful of people in Westeros may know its Robert.

In any case Gendry was probably lowborn, whereas Edric at least was noble on *both* sides. If Gendry has a big part to play, it's less likely to be as an heir to House Baratheon, and more likely to be earning himself a place in his own right. His major part in the whole question of bastardy versus inheritance, is already played: "proving" to Ned Stark's satisfaction (and Jon Arryn before him), in the form of being corroborative circumstantial evidence, that Robert's children were more likely to look like Robert, and that the likelihood was that Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen were therefore not Robert's children.

[Lurid Jester]

2 hours ago, LordImp said:

The Greyjoys are doomed if Yara dies, Euron must die and Theon dosent have a dick. 

This made me laugh... Which is disturbing since Theon's story is so damned jacked up. 

[Tchzaelous]

1 hour ago, Lord Lyman said:

Edric yes, Mya maybe, Gendry no. You would actually have to prove who Gendry's father is and only a handful of people in Westeros may know its Robert.

Varys knows, so no issue there.

All Hail King Gendry, First of His Name, Rower of the Rhyonar, Sailer of the Seven Seas of Westeros, and the man who never skipped Arm Day.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

2 hours ago, Lord Lyman said:

Edric yes, Mya maybe, Gendry no. You would actually have to prove who Gendry's father is and only a handful of people in Westeros may know its Robert.

Stannis knows too. 

If we can get Gendry to Stannis at Winterfell post-Shireen's burning he can be legitimized in the books especially since Edric wouldn't be within reach of Stannis. 

It helps that Gendry is more like him than Robert and he's also a follower of the red religion.

Gendry is Stannis' spiritual son.

[TwiceBorn]

On 2.07.2016 at 9:00 PM, MoonKnight21 said:

So some major houses are extinct/on the brink of extinction: 

Housr Baratheon : extinct

House Lannister: Jamie is of the kingsguard, unlikely (not impossible though) that he will father any more children. Only hope here is Tyrion. Cersei too old to have another child? 

House Tyrell: for show purposes is extinct

House Martel: exstinct 

House Greyjoy: Balon's last son cant procreate, hopes lie with his crackpot brother.

House Stark: Only male heir is a cripple and unlikely to father any son. 

House Tully: Edmure a prisoner (for how long ?), has one child, may possibly survive. 

Targ: Dany is barren and can't have children, is Jon a trueborn or bastard? 

Arryn: SweetRobin lives. 

Does anyone else see the story move to desolution of the feudal system and instillation of a more democratic society?

 

If I got it right then Jamie was fired from kingsguard, so he is the legitimate heir of the House Lannister again. If not, Tyrion is the heir as long as Danny wins (nice work shooting your papa, dude!). So Lannisters still kicking.

Other than that, a line can be preserved by matrilineal marriage. That is: in absence of a legitimate male heir, a woman heir carries on the family name and passes it to her children. A most suitable candidate for a husband is someone from a cadet branch, or bastard of the very family who has proper blood but no name. Else a royal bastard would do due to prestige. I think there are at least 2 precedences in the books.

So house Greyjoy can continue through Yara with a suitable husband, whomever he might be (for political reasons non-Ironborn would be better). House Stark would do best by marrying Sansa or Arya to Jon or Tyrion (the latter in case Jaimie continues the Lannister line). I actually expect that Sansa-Tyrion marriage might be renewed and consumed for the sake of ending the feud between the two prominent families. And House Targaryen could continue either by Dany marrying Jon and having a child somehow or by Dany legitimizing Jon and making him her heir. Or she can marry just anyone as long as he makes her pregnant, because Targs are definitely matrilineal both in the show and in the books.

As for Martel... well apparently a bad pussy can legitimize herself according to show's logic. In Dorne (according to show) anything is possible and no rules apply really. So I guess it is Royal House Bad Pussy-Martell now. Excuse me, I need a drink.

As for Tyrell, we don't know. Do we care?

The only house that is doomed is Baratheon unless someone finds that lonesome boat and recognizes Gendry for any reason. However if Gendry literally bumps into Dany's ship next season I will buy a shotgun and end somebody's life.

[Lord Lannister]

I always thought it absurd that all these ancient houses that have supposedly been around for hundreds if not thousands of years only have one branch somehow.