If Jon becomes King , who will be his Queen ?

[TheDemonicStark]

On 10/07/2016 at 6:49 AM, kissdbyfire said:

 

On 10/07/2016 at 4:35 PM, The Wull said:

@DutchArya

 

[TheDemonicStark]

(Don't ask what went wrong with my last comment)

I am still certain Jon will have to push his claim to the Iron Throne, bringing him into conflict with Aegon, Stannis, the Lannisters, Euron, and Dany, even. If so, I believe he will always be defined as a Bastard King. His reign will be one based on reconciliation, something he probably won't accomplish. (Lannisters have to pay)

But I am also convinced he will marry Jeyne Poole, feeling he has to protect her, and he takes pity on her. She is the fake Arya Stark, after all. A good nod to the original ending of the books.

[a black swan]

 

17 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Just like Ned will always be Jon's father, Sansa and Arya will always be his sisters. And Robb, Bran and Rickon will always be his brothers. 

As Ygritte taught Jon, a man doesn't chose a wife from his own village. Doing so is along the lines of abomination. 

Ned says that knowing it's a lie.

That's Ygritte. Seems like Jon might be unbothered.

 Ygritte has just finished telling Jon who she lost her virginity to. Jon thinks it's Longspear, a boy who cared about Yigrette and grew up in the "same village". However, the boy she slept with never stuck around because Longspear "broke his arm and ran him off" when he tried to steal/marry her. Yigrette's question indicates she thought of Longspear as her "brother". 

Quote

 

“It wasn’t Longspear, then?” Jon was relieved. He liked Longspear, with his homely face and friendly ways.

[Ygritte] punched him. “That’s vile. Would you bed your sister?”

“Longspear’s not your brother.” (Jon, A Storm of Swords) 

 

 

Jon conveniently ignores the question and states a fact - which was why he had no problem assuming she was with Longspear. He doesn't dwell or consider the point Ygritte was making.  

 

Quote

Jon had never met anyone so stubborn except maybe for his little sister Arya. Is she still my sister? he wondered. Was she ever? (Jon, A Storm of Swords) 

Was she ever. ? 

His train of thought is... interesting.

 

In Dance, Jon mirrors Arya's thoughts:

They are all convinced she is a princess. Val looked the part and rode as if she had been born on horseback. A warrior princess, he decided, not some willowy creature who sits up in a tower, brushing her hair and waiting for some knight to rescue her. (Jon, A Dance with Dragons)

And Arya, while watching Dareon, once of the Night’s Watch, sing, she thinks:

He is a man of the Night’s Watch, she thought, as he sang about some stupid lady throwing herself off some stupid tower because her stupid prince was dead. The lady should go kill the ones who killed her prince. (Arya, A Feast for Crows)

[The Fattest Leech]

2 hours ago, DutchArya said:

 

Ned says that knowing it's a lie.

That's Ygritte. Seems like Jon might be unbothered.

~snipped~

I think there is a lot more to Jon than just wanting him to be with anyone. You have to look at Jon as a whole, including what could be his instincts, to make this judgement. You have to take into account where Jon comes from, his blood father, where he is now...and yes, what George has said about his story as it is now and has been before book 1 was even finished.

I am not going to derail this thread about Jon's potential queen with that type of discussion. If you want to discuss Jon in more detail, then we all should do it here. This could be an interesting insight to who Jon is on a deeper level... just leave the knives elsewhere

 

[The Fattest Leech]

2 hours ago, DutchArya said:

~Snipped around for length~

Ned says that knowing it's a lie.

That's Ygritte. Seems like Jon might be unbothered.

 Ygritte has just finished telling Jon who she lost her virginity to. Jon thinks it's Longspear, a boy who cared about Yigrette and grew up in the "same village". However, the boy she slept with never stuck around because Longspear "broke his arm and ran him off" when he tried to steal/marry her. Yigrette's question indicates she thought of Longspear as her "brother". 

 Val looked the part and rode as if she had been born on horseback.

 

Ned is Jon's father in another sense than just blood. Ned raised Jon as his own and kept his blood father secret for many reasons, including Jon's mortal safety. Would you expect an adoptive father to tell his adopted son his entire life, "I'm not your dad." No, because in many ways he is the father. Being a parent often has a lot more to do with parenting, rather just who donated the sperm. Chances are very high that Jon will keep his Stark/Northern/First Man ideals anyway.

Jon also just lost his virginity to someone not of his "village". And Jon already stole Val, which everyone except for Jon sees because "he knows nothing" is more than just a line that Ygritte annoyingly repeated. It is a lesson to be learned.

 Val looked the part and rode as if she had been born on horseback. Just like Lyanna was described. Well, I guess Jon does have this in common with his blood father

[TheDemonicStark]

41 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Ned is Jon's father in another sense than just blood. Ned raised Jon as his own and kept his blood father secret for many reasons, including Jon's mortal safety. Would you expect an adoptive father to tell his adopted son his entire life, "I'm not your dad." No, because in many ways he is the father. Being a parent often has a lot more to do with parenting, rather just who donated the sperm. Chances are very high that Jon will keep his Stark/Northern/First Man ideals anyway.

Jon also just lost his virginity to someone not of his "village". And Jon already stole Val, which everyone except for Jon sees because "he knows nothing" is more than just a line that Ygritte annoyingly repeated. It is a lesson to be learned.

 Val looked the part and rode as if she had been born on horseback. Just like Lyanna was described. Well, I guess Jon does have this in common with his blood father

I actually want Val to end up with Gendry. Be rather fun to watch.

Jon x Jeyne Poole all the way!!!!!

[The Fattest Leech]

3 minutes ago, TheDemonicStark said:

I actually want Val to end up with Gendry. Be rather fun to watch.

Jon x Jeyne Poole all the way!!!!!

Are you imagining lots of tickle fights?

[purple-eyes]

30 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Ned is Jon's father in another sense than just blood. Ned raised Jon as his own and kept his blood father secret for many reasons, including Jon's mortal safety. Would you expect an adoptive father to tell his adopted son his entire life, "I'm not your dad." No, because in many ways he is the father. Being a parent often has a lot more to do with parenting, rather just who donated the sperm. Chances are very high that Jon will keep his Stark/Northern/First Man ideals anyway.

Jon also just lost his virginity to someone not of his "village". And Jon already stole Val, which everyone except for Jon sees because "he knows nothing" is more than just a line that Ygritte annoyingly repeated. It is a lesson to be learned.

 Val looked the part and rode as if she had been born on horseback. Just like Lyanna was described. Well, I guess Jon does have this in common with his blood father

actually Elia Sand is like a reborn Lyanna. lady lance, half horse, wild and unmanageable, etc. She will soon meet aegon. 

i guess GRRM will use Elia sand to hint that aegon is not son of rhaegar.

 just like he uses ygritee and arya to hint that jon and rhaegar have similar taste in woman. 

but of course this is GRRM's taste in woman, he loves wild woman obviously. 

[OuttaOldtown]

37 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

actually Elia Sand is like a reborn Lyanna

Both Val and Elia bear similarities, do not forget the sigil on the pin Val wears is an exact match to the sigil used by the Mystery knight at Harrenhal..

[The Fattest Leech]

3 minutes ago, OuttaOldtown said:

Both Val and Elia bear similarities, do not forget the sigil on the pin Val wears is an exact match to the sigil used by the Mystery knight at Harrenhal..

I always figured that if we got to where Jon was establishing a new house name, then the weirwood mask would make a great sigil that would connect both Lyanna at Harrenhal and Val. 

[OuttaOldtown]

9 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I always figured that if we got to where Jon was establishing a new house name, then the weirwood mask would make a great sigil that would connect both Lyanna at Harrenhal and Val. 

My thought is carved weirwood face is the symbol of "Ice", not the direwolf. The Starks as well as Val & Dalla share a bloodline, the story of Bael the Bard first got me thinking that everything with the Starks is not what it seems..

[The Fattest Leech]

11 minutes ago, OuttaOldtown said:

My thought is carved weirwood face is the symbol of "Ice", not the direwolf. The Starks as well as Val & Dalla share a bloodline, the story of Bael the Bard first got me thinking that everything with the Starks is not what it seems..

Yes yes yes  to the Stark history isn't all that it seems. Gods, I can't wait for the next books and She-Wolves. 

Im on my phone so it's hard for me to find the quote right now, I may have mentioned it in this thread?, but throughout Storm and AFFC/ADWD, Jon links himself to being more of a wildling, to Ghost being of the old gods, that he and Ghost being as one and how Val and Ghost look like they belong together.

So I guess a weirwood face could be ice, as in, the north? 

[CrypticWeirwood]

On July 9, 2016 at 3:36 AM, Julia H. said:

The Stark men are also known to be very protective of their little sisters. 

That's because of the historical special relationship between an uncle and his sister’s son, the one that Tolkien called “a relationship keenly felt” in the ancient Anglo-Saxon world. This is why FakeJon was so special to Ned, all he had left of his beloved sister.

[TheDemonicStark]

Anyone else believe Jeyne Poole will marry Jon Snow? Cause I do. I like this shipping a lot, and I am convinced we will see them have a romantic relationship. Jeyne Poole is a fake Arya Stark, and Arya was supposes to end up with Jon in GRRM's original ending. So, it seems like a nice little nod to that. Also, Jeyne bloody deserves a happy ending. Marriage to Ramsay Bolton is too much.

[Vaedys Targaryen]

On 7/15/2016 at 6:19 PM, kissdbyfire said:

Well, bugger the laws of Westeros, I'm saying they wouldn't go for it, arranged marriage or not. 

Sorry for the rather late reply.

Arranged marriage usually happens, regardless of the feelings of the two people getting married. And I'm afraid that you are never in a position where you can say "bugger the law", in real life or fantasy novels.

I suppose one reason they could avoid it is because they have no parents to enforce it, but that leaves out the option that Aegon or Dany might force them to marry, as the king and/or queen could arrange marriages between their vassals in order to make peace between two regions.

[TheDemonicStark]

I am positive that Jeyne Poole will marry Jon Snow. Anyone else agree?

[Arya Targaryen]

On 2016. 07. 14. at 4:11 PM, Vaedys Targaryen said:

Arya and Jon love one another like they are siblings, and even if they find out that they are actually cousins, I believe they will still be as close as siblings and will be horrified at the thought of marrying on another.

I really don't know why anyone against Jon/Arya never considers the fact that they were separated early (Arya was 9!). And since then, both of them changed drastically, mostly characterwise, but also physically (instead of a girl and a boy, they become - or on their way becoming - a woman and a man) . I assume they will know by the time they next meet that they are only cousins, so when they reconnect, it with be without the brother/sister connection - which obviously will be there first, because that's how they remember each other, but will change as they realize that they are not the same person as they were years before. 

And I might be alone in this, but even in the first book, their closeness always struck me as weird, and not like a regular brother/sister relationship. Obviously they thought they are siblings. But their closeness, the way they finish each other's sentences, the fact that this 14-year-old emo boy loves his 9-year-old tomboy sister more than the rest of them together - for me, it is NOT a regular sibling love. Even their similar situations (outcasts in the family) don't fully explain that. They are more like soul mates, who understand each other without words, not just because they know each other well- it's because they are so much alike. 

Because of this, I think they would make an excellent ruling couple. Arya always wanted to be the Lady-in-charge of her own castle. With Jon being King, and mostly busy elsewhere, she can have the opportunity to run the household in Winterfell (in which she was always much better than Sansa - why include that in the books?),while Jon is running business all over the North (or 7 Kingdoms). And there won't be much conflict between them as they will definitely know without asking how the other would react in a certain situation - because they would react the same way. 

4 hours ago, TheDemonicStark said:

I am positive that Jeyne Poole will marry Jon Snow. Anyone else agree?

I definitely don't. Jeyne has been an ass to Arya for most of her life. I just don't see Jon falling in love with her. And there is no political gain in it either.

On 2016. 07. 16. at 3:44 PM, DutchArya said:

 

Ned says that knowing it's a lie.

That's Ygritte. Seems like Jon might be unbothered.

 Ygritte has just finished telling Jon who she lost her virginity to. Jon thinks it's Longspear, a boy who cared about Yigrette and grew up in the "same village". However, the boy she slept with never stuck around because Longspear "broke his arm and ran him off" when he tried to steal/marry her. Yigrette's question indicates she thought of Longspear as her "brother". 

 

Jon conveniently ignores the question and states a fact - which was why he had no problem assuming she was with Longspear. He doesn't dwell or consider the point Ygritte was making.  

 

Was she ever. ? 

His train of thought is... interesting.

 

In Dance, Jon mirrors Arya's thoughts:

They are all convinced she is a princess. Val looked the part and rode as if she had been born on horseback. A warrior princess, he decided, not some willowy creature who sits up in a tower, brushing her hair and waiting for some knight to rescue her. (Jon, A Dance with Dragons)

And Arya, while watching Dareon, once of the Night’s Watch, sing, she thinks:

He is a man of the Night’s Watch, she thought, as he sang about some stupid lady throwing herself off some stupid tower because her stupid prince was dead. The lady should go kill the ones who killed her prince. (Arya, A Feast for Crows)

^this.

On 2016. 07. 14. at 4:11 PM, Vaedys Targaryen said:

Sansa, even with all her baggage, is still the heiress to Winterfell, since most people think that Bran and Rickon are dead. If Arya should return, she will only be second in line to Winterfell, so there isn't much to gain from marrying her.

this is assuming Jon will want to marry one of them because of their claim on Winterfell. I just don't see it. If anything, it will be the other way round. Jon will be King in the North, regardless of his parents - but that would mean Ned's children are set aside. Jon and others might feel a bit guilty about that. In that situation, marrying one of Ned's daughters will solve the problem, and Ned's bloodline will be back in the game, as Queen. Which daughter, it doesn't matter. And I'm sure, that if Jon has to choose between marrying Sansa or Arya, he will choose Arya without hesitation.

[TheDemonicStark]

22 hours ago, Arya Targaryen said:

I definitely don't. Jeyne has been an ass to Arya for most of her life. I just don't see Jon falling in love with her. And there is no political gain in it either.

Jon is not someone to simply be motivated by politics. He believes in doing in the right thing. When it comes to Jeyne Poole, I believe he will marry her out of a sense of duty and doing the right thing. Jeyne is married to Ramsay Bolton, and Jon would know he has a responsibility for protecting her. Thus, he marries her as it is the best option for her. There is nowhere for her to go at all. The Wall is the most dangerous place in Westeros, and not just because of the massive tension between the wildlings and the Night's Watch. Queen's men may want to burn her if they believe she is willingly Ramsay's wife, and if they believe that Stannis is dead, reasoning that offering the supposed wife of Stannis's (probably not) killer will bring him back. They are rather......lacking in logic and reason. And then there's......Patchface. That thing scares me.......

The only way Jon stands a chance of keeping her safe is to marry her. He wouldn't see any gain in it, as he is unaware of who is parents really are, and, given that he believes himself to be a bastard and Jeyne is a steward's daughter, he would not consider himself marrying above his station. However, once the will and his true parentage.....well, he is going to be in a very awkward position.

[Ice Turtle]

3 hours ago, TheDemonicStark said:

Jon is not someone to simply be motivated by politics. He believes in doing in the right thing. When it comes to Jeyne Poole, I believe he will marry her out of a sense of duty and doing the right thing. Jeyne is married to Ramsay Bolton, and Jon would know he has a responsibility for protecting her. Thus, he marries her as it is the best option for her. There is nowhere for her to go at all. The Wall is the most dangerous place in Westeros, and not just because of the massive tension between the wildlings and the Night's Watch. Queen's men may want to burn her if they believe she is willingly Ramsay's wife, and if they believe that Stannis is dead, reasoning that offering the supposed wife of Stannis's (probably not) killer will bring him back. They are rather......lacking in logic and reason. And then there's......Patchface. That thing scares me.......

The only way Jon stands a chance of keeping her safe is to marry her. He wouldn't see any gain in it, as he is unaware of who is parents really are, and, given that he believes himself to be a bastard and Jeyne is a steward's daughter, he would not consider himself marrying above his station. However, once the will and his true parentage.....well, he is going to be in a very awkward position.

I haven't thought there could be a more random ship than Jon/Sansa but I should have known better.

I agree that Jon might feel need to protect Jeyne, but marrying her is the last way he would do so. He can hardly marry every girl he wishes to protect. Will he marry Shireen too, because once Stannis dies her position becomes rather unfavourable. Will he marry Val as another wife to stop Selyse's men for courting her? Will he marry every orphan girl from Wall to Neck? I don't think so. Will he marry Jeyne Westerling as some fans speculated to take care of Robb's widow? Even that makes more sense, surely there would be more duty in that than marrying steward's daughter.

Not to mention that as long as Ramsay lives Jeyne is legally already married and once he dies there won't be anyone who would give Jeyne a second glance. Some Northern lord might nurse a mild resentment her for her role in the farce, but they are too proud to declare a helpless girl their nemesis.

We actually have at least three instances where Jon deals or thinks about finding place for a woman in need. He sends Gilly with Sam to Horn's Hill, he marries Alys Karstark to Sygorn and he thinks about sending Arya to be fostered in Braavos. Not once a marriage to himself crosses his mind, in case of Gilly and Arya that makes sense but he is actually fond of Alys. Even with Val he thinks that he is not the man to steal her. It makes hugely more sense for Jon to either find a place for Jeyne to be fostered, or some occupation as a helping hand of a steward or lady in waiting (she grew up as steward's daughter and lady's companion she would know how to fill those roles) or if she wishes to arrange a good marriage for her.

For now Jon is either dead or a member of the Watch forbidden to marry. If he gets out he is likely to become a king and no noble South or North would have much regard for a queen Jeyne Poole stewards daughter and pretender. Why would Jon endanger thousands with weakening his position as a leader for a one girl he was never very fond of and who isn't even his kin? Jeyne is rather young and spend a long time being sexually abused, Jon is very unlikely to feel more for her than pity. If Jon ever becomes king he will marry either for a politician gain or some great passion. Marriage is a powerful tool for every king.

[Fire Eater]

On 7/4/2016 at 4:25 PM, IceFire125 said:

Jon does not care for bending the knee and will not force men to bend the knee to him... because that's not how he is...

I do not require men to kneel, but they do need to obey.

It will be Dany that will bend the knee to Jon...

A stone turned under her foot. She stumbled to one knee and cried out in pain

**Stone means something/someone hidden; GRRM have described Starks in association with "stones"

Sansa--hiding as Alayne Stone

Bran--hiding under cave made of stones 

Rickon--in Skagos, stone in old tongue

Arya--hid Needle under stone, Needle is "her" Stark identity

Jon--as the Stone Dragon, Targaryen/Stark.

At the Great Council Jon will mount Drogon (or Cannibal), via Branraven's powers influencing the dragon, this will shock Dany, and this will lead the Lords of Westeros to elect Jon as King.  

Why would he need Bran when he could skinchange the dragon himself? He could gain a newfound appreciation for skinchanging after the Ides of Marsh given it helped to save his life. Borroq likely is mentioned for a reason. He has was around when Varamyr was a kid, and is likely the oldest and most experienced skinchanger after BR. He could serve as a mentor to Jon for skinchanging. 

And in the previous page before Sam dropped the two books, GRRM had this nice ironic clue about Jon being... Valyrian.

“The Old Bear never trained much when he was Lord Commander,” he had pointed out. In answer, Jon had pressed Longclaw into Sam’s hand. He let him feel the lightness, the balance, had him turn the blade so that ripples gleamed in the smoke-dark metal. “Valyrian steel,” he said, “spell-forged and razor-sharp, nigh on indestructible. A swordsman should be as good as his sword, Sam. Longclaw is Valyrian steel, but I’m not.

 

 

With Jon comparing himself to Valyrian steel add to that Donal Noye's quote regarding the Baratheon brothers: "Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day."

With the comparisons of men to metals, Robert who was the only one to sit the IT was compared to steel. So, in that quote Jon comparing himself to Valyrian steel, it is not just being hinted at being Valyrian in heritage, but being made of the stuff of kings. With Valyrian steel being the best quality metal, it could be saying Jon has the potential to be the best kind of king.