Damon_Tor

Oily Stone: Plastic?

29 posts in this topic

What does "oily" stone actually feel like? Does it actually leave an oily residue on your fingers? Does "oily" describe the shine of it, rather than the feel?

I've been thinking for some time about what "oily stone" could mean, and it occurs to me that, to a society that doesn't understand its manufacture, plastic might be called "oily stone."

I don't know what to make of this thought.

I do assume the oily stone (Seastone Chair, Yeen, The frog statue) to be a different thing than the "fused black stone" of the Hightower and the Five Forts and such.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think of black soapstone. Definitely a greasy, soapy feel. Alternately, black obsidian feels slippery not greasy but it actually looks oily.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/3/2016 at 0:25 PM, Damon_Tor said:

What does "oily" stone actually feel like? Does it actually leave an oily residue on your fingers? Does "oily" describe the shine of it, rather than the feel?

I've been thinking for some time about what "oily stone" could mean, and it occurs to me that, to a society that doesn't understand its manufacture, plastic might be called "oily stone."

I don't know what to make of this thought.

I do assume the oily stone (Seastone Chair, Yeen, The frog statue) to be a different thing than the "fused black stone" of the Hightower and the Five Forts and such.

Good questions ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 4/7/2016 at 0:25 AM, Damon_Tor said:

I do assume the oily stone (Seastone Chair, Yeen, The frog statue) to be a different thing than the "fused black stone" of the Hightower and the Five Forts and such.

Why? How many people ever saw both?

As for plastic, well... yes, it could be. But we don't know.

This is one of those very simple yes/no questions upon which the entire story hinges. If it's no, then, fine, nothing changes, but if it's yes...

If you're not familiar with him already, check out Preston Jacobs on youtube. This is very much his area.

ETA: watching that again, I'd forgotten just how creepy/cringeworthy the footage of Sybel Kikeli (?) and GRRM is. Yikes

Edited by Illyrio Mo'Parties

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/3/2016 at 10:25 AM, Damon_Tor said:

I do assume the oily stone (Seastone Chair, Yeen, The frog statue) to be a different thing than the "fused black stone" of the Hightower and the Five Forts and such.

Doesn't "fused" imply it was created by melting stone? Like, from dragonflame?

I think they are different for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Why? How many people ever saw both?

As for plastic, well... yes, it could be. But we don't know.

It's mostly about a lack of shared adjectives. Certain objects have the "greasy" descriptors while others don't. And it seems like, in very large constructions (Yeen, Asshai) made of the greasy stone also have some kind of darkness-generation and/or life/eating properties. I would think that if the base of the Hightower were to drink in light and kill livestock, we would know about it. Same with the inner walls of Volantis. They're large constructions in the middle of well-populated areas, so it would be odd to never get those descriptors if they were warranted.

Maybe there IS a connection: maybe when the fused stone gets old it starts to break down and produce an oily substance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Damon_Tor said:

It's mostly about a lack of shared adjectives. Certain objects have the "greasy" descriptors while others don't. And it seems like, in very large constructions (Yeen, Asshai) made of the greasy stone also have some kind of darkness-generation and/or life/eating properties. I would think that if the base of the Hightower were to drink in light and kill livestock, we would know about it.

Absolutely. And this is why they are definitely different, IMO. 

1 hour ago, Damon_Tor said:

Maybe there IS a connection: maybe when the fused stone gets old it starts to break down and produce an oily substance.

Maybe. But I think the fused stone is simply melted, formed stone (of any color). It comes out black from the dragonflame.

I don't really think there is a connection other than they are both magical (fused stone created with the magic of dragonflame and oily stone from the magic meteorites that hit planetos).

What do you think about Moat Cailin? Do you think it is made of oily stone as well?

Quote

Where once a mighty curtain wall had stood, only scattered stones remained, blocks of black basalt so large it must once have taken a hundred men to hoist them into place. Some had sunk so deep into the bog that only a corner showed; others lay strewn about like some god’s abandoned toys, cracked and crumbling, spotted with lichen. Last night’s rain had left the huge stones wet and glistening, and the morning sunlight made them look as if they were coated in some fine black oil.

(Reek II, DwD)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

What do you think about Moat Cailin? Do you think it is made of oily stone as well?

Maybe. My operating theory is that the oily stone acts as an amplifier for psychic/magical (the distinction is meaningless) abilities. Things like the Seastone Chair are very small, and can only amplify abilities a relatively small amount. The Seastone Chair expands the anti-magic field of the Grey King's descendants far enough to cover most of the Iron Islands, but not far enough to effect Sealskin Point. Harrenhall was designed to spread that same field across the entire world, as long as someone with the requisite trait is enthroned there. That's the real reason why magic left the world, and why dragons stopped hatching: even damaged, Harrenhall was able to use the Hoare blood of the Lothstons and Whents to suppress magic globally (Magic and dragons did make a comeback in the early years while other houses without Hoare ancestry held the castle). The damage to Harrenhall is probably why magic survives in the far East. The rebirth of dragons in the novel coincides with the ouster of house Whent from Harrenhall during the war of the five kings.

So it makes some sense for other oily stone structures to have existed where powerful psychic effects had been said to occur, such as the Neck.

Edited by Damon_Tor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Magic is only magic if you don't understand it.

I have drunk the Preston cool aid and it tastes good. Magic is kinda dumb because anything can be explained by it.  Must just be 'magic'. Pfft.

Technology though. Technology totally changes the fabric of the story and makes it far, far more compelling imho.

Now is the oily stone plastic? I doubt it.  But do genetic engineering, ancient technology and the theme of knowledge(not magic) returning to the world make sense? Yeah.

They really fucking do.

Why would a feminist, pacifist who has written thinking persona sci fi his whole life suddenly switch and write a fantasy novel where feudal patriarchy wins? 

Exactly.  He wouldn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, The Dragon has three heads said:

Magic is only magic if you don't understand it.

I have drunk the Preston cool aid and it tastes good. Magic is kinda dumb because anything can be explained by it.  Must just be 'magic'. Pfft.

Technology though. Technology totally changes the fabric of the story and makes it far, far more compelling imho.

Now is the oily stone plastic? I doubt it.  But do genetic engineering, ancient technology and the theme of knowledge(not magic) returning to the world make sense? Yeah.

They really fucking do.

Why would a feminist, pacifist who has written thinking persona sci fi his whole life suddenly switch and write a fantasy novel where feudal patriarchy wins? 

Exactly.  He wouldn't.

I'm not sure what you are meaning with this. There is no magic in Planetos?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-03-06 at 6:23 PM, Damon_Tor said:

Maybe. My operating theory is that the oily stone acts as an amplifier for psychic/magical (the distinction is meaningless) abilities. Things like the Seastone Chair are very small, and can only amplify abilities a relatively small amount. The Seastone Chair expands the anti-magic field of the Grey King's descendants far enough to cover most of the Iron Islands, but not far enough to effect Sealskin Point. Harrenhall was designed to spread that same field across the entire world, as long as someone with the requisite trait is enthroned there. That's the real reason why magic left the world, and why dragons stopped hatching: even damaged, Harrenhall was able to use the Hoare blood of the Lothstons and Whents to suppress magic globally (Magic and dragons did make a comeback in the early years while other houses without Hoare ancestry held the castle). The damage to Harrenhall is probably why magic survives in the far East. The rebirth of dragons in the novel coincides with the ouster of house Whent from Harrenhall during the war of the five kings.

So it makes some sense for other oily stone structures to have existed where powerful psychic effects had been said to occur, such as the Neck.

I didn't think Harrenhal was oily black stone.  Isn't Harrenhal just fused dragonstone (a la Dragonstone or the walls of Volantis) without the decoration?

I get what you're saying with the oily stone and the Seastone Chair, and I can even kind of see what you mean if we applied that idea to Moat Cailin...except then you go into Harrenhal which, as far as I can tell in my readings, isn't "oily" stone and was made/destroyed by dragonfire like the other "fused stone" structures (with the only exception being that Harrenhal's "fusing" was an intent to destroy whereas "fusing" the Volantis walls was an intent to create).  Do you mean to imply that the *intent* has something to do with whether it comes out "oily" or not?  But even then, Harrenhal's not ever described as "oily" black stone. I could only find Arya mentioning that Old Nan called them "blackened" (but I am at work, so I was just skimming...).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

I'm not sure what you are meaning with this. There is no magic in Planetos?

Many people do not think there is magic in Westeros. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the thinking falls along the lines of what is happening in telekinesis, telepathy, self fulfilling paranoia about prophecies, and the idea that George is using a common idea of his that the world of Planetos used to be much more modern and advanced before a terrible war/apocalypse /whatever. An interregnum of sorts. So all of these old and inexpiable buildings, folk tales, materials, etc are actually relics from time a millennia ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Many people do not think there is magic in Westeros. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the thinking falls along the lines of what is happening in telekinesis, telepathy, self fulfilling paranoia about prophecies, and the idea that George is using a common idea of his that the world of Planetos used to be much more modern and advanced before a terrible war/apocalypse /whatever. An interregnum of sorts. So all of these old and inexpiable buildings, folk tales, materials, etc are actually relics from time a millennia ago.

Interesting. 

How are some of our on page happenings explained without magic though? Example: Birthing a 'shadow baby' which has the ability to murder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Interesting. 

How are some of our on page happenings explained without magic though? Example: Birthing a 'shadow baby' which has the ability to murder.

Hahaa. I agree and the birthing a shadow baby is often used as the example of magic existing. I can't really give the explanation why, I just wanted to share what I do know are other conclusions people are coming to. I know there was a "reason" for the shadow baby, but I just can't remember it at the moment.

Edited by The Fattest Leech

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Hahaa. I agree and the birthing a shadow baby is often used as the example of magic existing. I can't really give the explanation why, I just wanted to share what I do know other conclusions people are coming to. I know there was a reason for the shadow baby, but I just can't remember it at the moment.

Fair enough. Thanks for the information. I did not know about the "there is no magic in Planetos" idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Fair enough. Thanks for the information. I did not know about the "there is no magic in Planetos" idea.

Again, if other posters here have different ideas, feel free to jump in.

Try this. https://youtu.be/K8kwZ_7M3o0?t=529

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Fair enough. Thanks for the information. I did not know about the "there is no magic in Planetos" idea.

The prevailing theory here Is that stannis' disembodied consciousness murdered Renly, so equal parts Telekenisis and telepathy. 

Imagine an insidious version of Varamyrs disembodied consciousness from the prologue of adwd.  There is also the glass candle angle here too, which have numerous times been linked to people entering other people's dreams, perhaps the user can control the sleepers unconscious mind.

Further, the 'shadow baby' may have just been a glamour with stannis unknowingly doing the actual killing in his sleep.  This is also the plot of GRRMs favourite movie.

Another explanation could be the power of Mels ruby.  It's ability as both a glamour weaving device and something that hides her True age could be a piece of technology that feeds off the life force of others-perhaps at a cellular level and re uses it.  Sounds magic like, true, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is.

We know Davos witnessed something, and we know Cat and Brienne also saw something kill renly.  Taken at face value these events can be explained by a shadow baby.  But what if Mel birthed whatever it was to prove her 'power' to Davos, as she did with the poison chalice on dragonstone.  A glamour for Davos benefit and a Turncloak inside storms end make just as much sense when it comes to the death of sir Courtney.  Given we have witnesses to the death of Renly we have to assume they saw...something, but again as stannis was 'asleep' it's not outside the realm of possibility he was being mind controlled/astrally projecting inside his dream, again this is the plot of Forbidden planet GRRMs favourite movie.

Edited by The Dragon has three heads

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, The Dragon has three heads said:

The prevailing theory here Is that stannis' disembodied consciousness murdered Renly, so equal parts Telekenisis and telepathy. 

Imagine an insidious version of Varamyrs disembodied consciousness from the prologue of adwd.  There is also the glass candle angle here too, which have numerous times been linked to people entering other people's dreams, perhaps the user can control the sleepers unconscious mind.

Further, the 'shadow baby' may have just been a glamour with stannis unknowingly doing the actual killing in his sleep.  This is also the plot of GRRMs favourite movie.

Another explanation could be the power of Mels ruby.  It's ability as both a glamour weaving device and something that hides her True age could be a piece of technology that feeds off the life force of others-perhaps at a cellular level and re uses it.  Sounds magic like, true, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is.

Thanks for the reply. Interesting food for thought, and I'm always hungry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm the same.

Theres far too much weird stuff going on with the GEOTD, Ashai, Qarth and Valyria for me to believe that these civilisations were at the same tech level of our current story line.

For example I believe in an off record conversation between Elio and a known you tuber that it was let slip that Valyrians could MAKE sphinxes.  This was supposed to be in WOIAF but was later Omitted, for reasons.  

Think about that for a second.

A civilisation that built the most advanced structures(in the west) had BLood Mages that MADE composite animals.

The implications of that are huge on a lot of levels.  Now can it be 100% confirmed? no, unless Ran would like to chime in haha but this idea that Valyrians were the last great advanced civilisation using geothermal power and blood/DNA  for their 'magic' is just delicious!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Many people do not think there is magic in Westeros. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the thinking falls along the lines of what is happening in telekinesis, telepathy, self fulfilling paranoia about prophecies, and the idea that George is using a common idea of his that the world of Planetos used to be much more modern and advanced before a terrible war/apocalypse /whatever. An interregnum of sorts. So all of these old and inexpiable buildings, folk tales, materials, etc are actually relics from time a millennia ago.

The distinction between psychic abilities and magic is meaningless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now