Back in Black-Snow Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 The reason I ask is that by all accounts that we know of, Dany cannot produce any heirs. To me, it seems that the only way to make that work would be to legitimize Jon as a Targaryan and marry him to make him King of Westeros. When she dies in battle, he will then be free to remarry and continue the bloodline through another wife. What do you all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightflame princess Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 I didn't even consider that she can't have children because of that whole blood magic thing. That's a good point. I thought you were going to say because she is a woman, she will adopt the name of her husband. Either way, you are correct. The targaryen name will die out if jon isn't legitimized. However.. jon also has some magic undead issues going on. I don't think that he can reproduce either. The targs may not survive this series, which might be good, because of their incestuous relationships (which caused lots of crazy deformities and stillbirths) and their dragon taming abilities, which from an outside perspective seems freaking awesome. But if you are the one being conquered.. It's probably not so fun. Many characters boast about having valyrian blood, but the valyrians were bad people. They had a huge slave trade going on to get more and more gold and silver, so that they could continue to dominate the world. I could see George killing the targaryens off at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Is Overdue Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 I'm not sure yet if Dany will be permanently infertile. Sometimes when I think of Mirri Maz Duur's taunting insults to Dany, I have wondered if they are prophetic hints. I've seen it happen in other classic fantasy, so I wouldn't be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Winter Is Overdue said: I'm not sure yet if Dany will be permanently infertile. Sometimes when I think of Mirri Maz Duur's taunting insults to Dany, I have wondered if they are prophetic hints. I've seen it happen in other classic fantasy, so I wouldn't be surprised. Yes, I kind of took it as "a bunch of bizarre stuff that you are probably misinterpreting is going to happen and that's when you will have a live child." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 You could interpret most of the prophecy (or whatever it is) to be mostly fulfilled at this point. (Q Martell is the sun that rises and sets, Dothraki Sea is dry, Pyramids are crumbling in the wind, etc) I also think that Dany's last chapter indicates she has had a miscarriage. A miscarriage is not the same as carrying a child to term, but it's an indication that it's possible. I think Dany's infertility is going to turn out not to be a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frejac Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 7 hours ago, brightflame princess said: I didn't even consider that she can't have children because of that whole blood magic thing. That's a good point. I thought you were going to say because she is a woman, she will adopt the name of her husband. Either way, you are correct. The targaryen name will die out if jon isn't legitimized. However.. jon also has some magic undead issues going on. I don't think that he can reproduce either. The targs may not survive this series, which might be good, because of their incestuous relationships (which caused lots of crazy deformities and stillbirths) and their dragon taming abilities, which from an outside perspective seems freaking awesome. But if you are the one being conquered.. It's probably not so fun. Many characters boast about having valyrian blood, but the valyrians were bad people. They had a huge slave trade going on to get more and more gold and silver, so that they could continue to dominate the world. I could see George killing the targaryens off at the end. I disagree with this. His body seems to be functioning like any other (healing normally, etc). I think that when he was brought back, he was fully brought back (at least physically). I don't think he'll have problems producing children. 1 hour ago, Gertrude said: You could interpret most of the prophecy (or whatever it is) to be mostly fulfilled at this point. (Q Martell is the sun that rises and sets, Dothraki Sea is dry, Pyramids are crumbling in the wind, etc) I also think that Dany's last chapter indicates she has had a miscarriage. A miscarriage is not the same as carrying a child to term, but it's an indication that it's possible. I think Dany's infertility is going to turn out not to be a thing. This I mostly agree with. I'm not entirely sure about the miscarriage thing, but I could also see that interpretation turning out to be true. In any case, I do believe that Dany will be physically able to have children before the end of the story. Whether or not she survives long enough to do so is another question (one that also applies to Jon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I think Dany will bear another child or even children again. I think Jon will be a father. But either of them will live up and sit on IT is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sansa's Direwolf Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 The only problem legalizing Jon is it has to be done by the king of Westros, who happens to be Cersei at this moment. I doubt she'll be in favor of it. As for children, if anyone manages to survive the White Walkers, I think a lot of houses are going to be extinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Any monarch can legitimize a bastard within their country, which technically means Jon, as King in the North, can legitimize himself (the way Robb legitimized Jon in the books; and, of course, Dany can do it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drago Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I think next season Jon will find out exactly who he is and some proof to back it up. Rhaegar was convinced that the dragon must have three heads, the only way to achieve this is to make sure all of his children a legitimate because He / She must be I a position of power to have any influence in the wars to come. He was also convinced the prince that was promised would descend from his line. I'm betting he left a royal decree and that he and Lyanna actually got married first. He probably knew the seven kingdoms would plunge into chaos when he took Lyanna for himself and he did it anyway. I'm also betting the Citadel knew about ever thing. from what I am aware the Maesters are supposed to be neutral. They could keep the secret if someone of importance asked them too, maybe Ned Stark. I'm also betting we will see their marriage next season through Bran. Jon sent Sam to become a Maester but I see this as just a plot point to get him there, once there he will have access to everything including all the birth records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharding85 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 On 7/3/2016 at 11:37 PM, Travis said: The reason I ask is that by all accounts that we know of, Dany cannot produce any heirs. To me, it seems that the only way to make that work would be to legitimize Jon as a Targaryan and marry him to make him King of Westeros. When she dies in battle, he will then be free to remarry and continue the bloodline through another wife. What do you all think? In either the book or the show when she climbs down the mountain, just before she meets the Dothraki she bleeds so i'm pretty sure that this means that she can have kids again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asvpxkvng Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Drago said: I think next season Jon will find out exactly who he is and some proof to back it up. Rhaegar was convinced that the dragon must have three heads, the only way to achieve this is to make sure all of his children a legitimate because He / She must be I a position of power to have any influence in the wars to come. He was also convinced the prince that was promised would descend from his line. I'm betting he left a royal decree and that he and Lyanna actually got married first. He probably knew the seven kingdoms would plunge into chaos when he took Lyanna for himself and he did it anyway. I'm also betting the Citadel knew about ever thing. from what I am aware the Maesters are supposed to be neutral. They could keep the secret if someone of importance asked them too, maybe Ned Stark. I'm also betting we will see their marriage next season through Bran. Jon sent Sam to become a Maester but I see this as just a plot point to get him there, once there he will have access to everything including all the birth records. Could this whole maester thing be true? Could the Cotadel really do this. Can someone find specific proof of this because this seems like a great way to move on with Sam's storyline merging back with Jons but it seems like you're reaching a little bit because I've never heard of this before but maybe I just didn't think of the Citadel in that capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chib Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I remember someone said that in some commentaries after the show, D&D actually said Dany's barren or so. Does that mean Dany will never have a child again? I don't remember that commentary video, anyone give me a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back in Black-Snow Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 Thanks for all your replies everyone. I've been a little short on time so I haven't had much of a chance to contribute. But keep your responses coming. Will give more of an in depth reply shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragen Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 16 hours ago, brightflame princess said: I didn't even consider that she can't have children because of that whole blood magic thing. That's a good point. I thought you were going to say because she is a woman, she will adopt the name of her husband. Either way, you are correct. The targaryen name will die out if jon isn't legitimized. However.. jon also has some magic undead issues going on. I don't think that he can reproduce either. The targs may not survive this series, which might be good, because of their incestuous relationships (which caused lots of crazy deformities and stillbirths) and their dragon taming abilities, which from an outside perspective seems freaking awesome. But if you are the one being conquered.. It's probably not so fun. Many characters boast about having valyrian blood, but the valyrians were bad people. They had a huge slave trade going on to get more and more gold and silver, so that they could continue to dominate the world. I could see George killing the targaryens off at the end. Ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt, Persia were slavers cultures, yet we look at them as cradle of civilization. USA economy was based on slavery for years, yet nobody called them awful people because of that. Valyrians were slavers, yet in Westeros slavery were forbidden during Targaryen reign and now we have Targaryen who leading antislavery effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragen Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 5 hours ago, Drago said: I think next season Jon will find out exactly who he is and some proof to back it up. Rhaegar was convinced that the dragon must have three heads, the only way to achieve this is to make sure all of his children a legitimate because He / She must be I a position of power to have any influence in the wars to come. He was also convinced the prince that was promised would descend from his line. I'm betting he left a royal decree and that he and Lyanna actually got married first. He probably knew the seven kingdoms would plunge into chaos when he took Lyanna for himself and he did it anyway. I'm also betting the Citadel knew about ever thing. from what I am aware the Maesters are supposed to be neutral. They could keep the secret if someone of importance asked them too, maybe Ned Stark. I'm also betting we will see their marriage next season through Bran. Jon sent Sam to become a Maester but I see this as just a plot point to get him there, once there he will have access to everything including all the birth records. Maestrs are anti-dragon, anti-Targaryen, anti-magic and anti-prophecy, so if Citadela had some documents about Rheagar children, I don't see why would they have it, they would destroy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 3 hours ago, Cragen said: Maestrs are anti-dragon, anti-Targaryen, anti-magic and anti-prophecy, so if Citadela had some documents about Rheagar children, I don't see why would they have it, they would destroy it. Would be funny when they have to fight against WW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back in Black-Snow Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 I'm not so sure that the bit about the sun rising in west and setting in the east is to be taken as a prophecy, though it could be, but is a clever way of getting her to understand that she will never have children again. I don't see us as viewers going through season after season - not only watching Dany reclaim what is hers by right but also rooting for her in the process - to see it all flushed down the privy. As much as we like to make this feel-good story all about her (the Targaryen story anyway), it is not. It is about restoring the Targaryen House as rulers over Westeros - a position that is theirs by right (in their eyes), and which was stolen by force from them. Which makes this much more than about Dany's, although her story is a large part of it. Still, after all is said and done, and if her inability to have children is to be believed to be true (let's just assume for argument's sake it is), that leaves Jon as the hope of House Targaryen. The only way I can see this happening is if Dany takes back the Iron Throne from Cersi, finds out who Jon is and legitimizes him as a Targaryen and proclaims him the heir to the IT after her. The line will continue through him. Or she does the same thing, and also marries him. But the latter would mean the only way to continue the line would still be through Jon, which means Dany would have to die and Jon would have to remarry. On a side note: could this be how Lightbringer is forged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightflame princess Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 6 hours ago, Cragen said: Ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt, Persia were slavers cultures, yet we look at them as cradle of civilization. USA economy was based on slavery for years, yet nobody called them awful people because of that. Valyrians were slavers, yet in Westeros slavery were forbidden during Targaryen reign and now we have Targaryen who leading antislavery effort. Yes, they are the cradle of civilization. However, a lot of people call all those people you mentioned awful.. especially the US. It's kind of funny that you said that.. Americans can't seem to get past their slave past. And ancient Egypt. They are definitely considered a bit evil for some of the things they did. Just because those cultures furthered the exploration of the world and helped to build modern civilizations, doesn't mean history doesn't see them as bad or awful. History doesn't lie. If you dig deep enough you uncover some unsavory facts. and remember, the winners write the history. I'm just.saying I could see George ending the targ line. I think one of.his main points in the books is everybody is expendable, all men must die. The targ name doesn't matter as much as every body thinks. It would fit with his style of writing if the targs were gone by the end of the series. Ancient history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjlxking Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Answer: It cant Dany already said she won't have kids and probably won't marry again Jon will continue the Targ line. With that said, he is the main character and yes... the entire series/novel is about his. All hints that point to the hero are literal for Dany but figurative for Jon. Dany was thrown into the story as a Mary Sue with obvious clues to her being a "hero" but Jon has figurative and metaphorical clues and he is the real hero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.