Is the Hooded Man actually The Hooded Man?

[bemused]

On 7/14/2016 at 7:05 PM, M_Tootles said:

So here's where I'm at: If Benjen is the Hooded Man, it doesn't necessarily follow that "Roger Ryswell" wasn't killed and replaced, right?. (Barbrey may be her own animal, or may not be part of the GNC; she may want Ramsay dead but view Roose positively -- I think there's more to Roose than we know. You ever look up sable black and silver? Benjen's got him some, too...)

I don't think Roger was killed and replaced, because I think the ruby, and the spell Mel put on it only work for Rattleshirt/Mance. But even if it did work as canteuse suggested, wasn't the idea that it would be used to get Mors inside to be the HM? But I'm already convinced it's BJ, and I think Mors is pretty busy outside , digging holes, keeping tabs on Stannis, watching for escapees, listening for the first horn to be blown - signalling him to start up the drums, etc.

Without a glamour, I think Roger's absence would definitely be noted.

Roger and Rickard look alike and may even be twins, for all we know. Theon says he can't tell them apart in Reek II, when they arrive after Moat Caillin .. But look, they didn't go south with Robb and they're a bit older; probably not of an age to be close friends like Cley Cerwyn or Benfred Tallhart, so Theon might not have seen them all that often (or seen them together). Later, at WF, after being around them for a while, he identifies them without hesitation,

These jewelry or object clues are not always used to the same purpose.. e. g. Littlefingers mockingbird pin, or the silver wolfshead worn by Bran earlier, have nothing to do with a glamour.

But George has given many clues in the WF chapters that show the nature of a character or their intent. Roger's iron horsehead brooch tells us that he's strong, agressive and warlike (for us, Iron is associated with Mars, or any war god, really) Barbrey is pale-faced and severe (cold, unforgiving) and ... Aenys Frey stood near the fire, pinched cheeks flushed with cold. ...He's feeling the effects of the northern cold, literally and figuratively.

These aren't much in the way of facial descriptions at any rate, saying more about the person's attitude than what they look like, so Roger's brooch fits right in. ... Roose is there and his face isn't mentioned either. 

sable black and silver ? (apart from silver being magic-friendly?) ... Do tell

 

 

[M_Tootles]

10 minutes ago, bemused said:

I don't think Roger was killed and replaced, because I think the ruby, and the spell Mel put on it only work for Rattleshirt/Mance. But even if it did work as canteuse suggested, wasn't the idea that it would be used to get Mors inside to be the HM?

Well, it gets him inside to murder and replace Roger. If Mors = HM then HM is an accident -- he passes Theon -- not "the idea". Everything else holds, and now you've got somebody else on the inside to coordinate with Benjen is you're right there.

 

10 minutes ago, bemused said:

Without a glamour, I think Roger's absence would definitely be noted.

Well yeah, but without a glamor he's dead, and no chance anyone's impersonating him, so I'm not quit following that.

 

10 minutes ago, bemused said:

These jewelry or object clues are not always used to the same purpose.. e. g. Littlefingers mockingbird pin, or the silver wolfshead worn by Bran earlier, have nothing to do with a glamour.

Of course not, but I doubt they never are that we don't know of, either.

10 minutes ago, bemused said:

But George has given many clues in the WF chapters that show the nature of a character or their intent. Roger's iron horsehead brooch tells us that he's strong, agressive and warlike (for us, Iron is associated with Mars, or any war god, really) Barbrey is pale-faced and severe (cold, unforgiving) and ... Aenys Frey stood near the fire, pinched cheeks flushed with cold. ...He's feeling the effects of the cold, literally and figuratively. These aren't much in the way of facial descriptions at any rate saying more about the person's attitude than what they look like, so Roger's brooch fits right in. ... Roose is there and his face isn't mentioned either.

I mean, I hear what you're saying, but it remains "pale-faced" is a face and "pinched cheeks" is a face. It's consistent with his reading.

I'm not sure whether to say "Theon takes Roose for granted and we know what he looks like" or "Well now, that's interesting, isn't it?" I tend to think Bolt-on both nailed it and totally missed it when it talks about wearing skins like the face-surgery of the FM. I think they human skinchange, Bran-in-Hodor style, which makes them analogous to the FM, since I think that's the FM's big secret technique and the reason they're so keen on super-warg Arya.

 

10 minutes ago, bemused said:

sable black and silver ? (apart from silver being magic-friendly?) ... Do tell

Wish I could remember the dude's name... he deleted his handle. Anyway, do a search for these and you get some interesting shit. His idea was that there's a "hunting club" of sorts among old First Men houses. He saw things as split into skinchangers and hunters. Silver and Black is the code for the latter. Royces, Boltons, Barbrey Dustin... I forget who else, but the fly in the ointment was Benjen fucking Stark, which I remember he loved and was working on something about. Anyway, sorry I can't be more specific. I remember it was well worth the searching around. I don't know if he ever published it or if he just PMd me stuff on it.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

Great catch OP, but this would place that Theon chapter quite a while after the last Jaime chapter, right? Jaime never thinks about sending anybody to Winterfell, so if it happens it'd have to be after his encounter with Lady Stoneheart. Not impossible, but it's a stretch.

I saw on reddit recently, someone's excellent theory that Alliser Thorne is the Hooded Man (and a contributor to the pink letter), and I must say I found it quite persuasive.

ETA: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4a6nm7/spoilers_everything_meanwhile_the_small_bolton/

although the bits about him writing the pink letter are more persuasive

[M_Tootles]

1 hour ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Great catch OP, but this would place that Theon chapter quite a while after the last Jaime chapter, right? Jaime never thinks about sending anybody to Winterfell, so if it happens it'd have to be after his encounter with Lady Stoneheart. Not impossible, but it's a stretch.

I saw on reddit recently, someone's excellent theory that Alliser Thorne is the Hooded Man (and a contributor to the pink letter), and I must say I found it quite persuasive.

ETA: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4a6nm7/spoilers_everything_meanwhile_the_small_bolton/

although the bits about him writing the pink letter are more persuasive

Holy balls, how did I never think of this!?! This is stellar.