Littlefinger

[ymaface]

(a few show spoilers possibly)

I'm so sorry if this has been posted before but I had a quick look and couldn't see anything similar. 

Do you think Littlefinger is going to die soon?

So LF up until now has always had a plan and been the man pulling the strings. He works best when he has a rich powerful family to manipulate and an infrastructure to operate in. However, I really can't see a place for him in Season 7 onwards. If Dany takes over Kings Landing with Dorne and Highgarden he will hardly get a look in (especially with Varys and Tyrion at Dany's side) so his dreams of the Iron Throne are a no go. There's no way he will be able to get in on Dany's team. So that leaves the North and Vale. If Sansa takes a massive step back character wise and decides to trust him (dear god no) then he could have a chance but then there's the matter of Jon, Davos, the Wildlings. If I remember correctly the Vale aren't especially loyal to him and his only link is through manipulating Robin. Eventually Dany will make her way north against the Night's King and team up with Jon (I'm guessing) and again LF won't get a look in.

There doesn't seem to be a place for him anymore. There are no influential people he can manipulate and his end game seems extremely unlikely with Dany in the way. 

If he does die, I'd love it to be Arya wearing Cat's face... 

Anyway, just curious to what you guys think...

[Future Null Infinity]

Yes, I think that LittleFinger will die in S7, by Jon or Sansa, his story was always related to Sansa, he's power hungry and wants the Iron throne, he's almost perfect, an extraordinary mind and his plans are so perfectly done, but he have a flaw : Sansa, she make him remember young Cat, and because of that he loves her like a crazy, he wants to fulfill 2 dreams in one like he said to Sansa : The iron throne with her beside him

Now the problem is that winterfell lays on his path to the iron throne, he promised Winterfell to Cersei for a promise of the warden of north (which is a very big step in his plans), the only way to get that is make Sansa an ally and to convince her to start a civil war against jon to get her rights as ruler of north

Sansa don't love him and don't trust him, she will play the double agent, she will make it like she's ok with his plans and follow him until he unfold all his plan to Sansa, after that, I can see Jon beheading him

I can pinpoint the scene of the the start of his demise, In the weirwood tree he told Sansa what he wants, LF never done that before, he don't tell people what he wants, he works in silence, but his craziness about Sansa made him very flawed and prone to mistakes

[Cragen]

56 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Yes, I think that LittleFinger will die in S7, by Jon or Sansa, his story was always related to Sansa, he's power hungry and wants the Iron throne, he's almost perfect, an extraordinary mind and his plans are so perfectly done, but he have a flaw : Sansa, she make him remember young Cat, and because of that he loves her like a crazy, he wants to fulfill 2 dreams in one like he said to Sansa : The iron throne with her beside him

Now the problem is that winterfell lays on his path to the iron throne, he promised Winterfell to Cersei for a promise of the warden of north (which is a very big step in his plans), the only way to get that is make Sansa an ally and to convince her to start a civil war against jon to get her rights as ruler of north

Sansa don't love him and don't trust him, she will play the double agent, she will make it like she's ok with his plans and follow him until he unfold all his plan to Sansa, after that, I can see Jon beheading him

I can pinpoint the scene of the the start of his demise, In the weirwood tree he told Sansa what he wants, LF never done that before, he don't tell people what he wants, he works in silence, but his craziness about Sansa made him very flawed and prone to mistakes

This is exactly what I think will happen. Only way for him to survive is to leave Winterfell right now and go to Vale were he can influence Robin. I don't see him doing so, because he became to obsessed with Sansa. If Sansa don't finish him, he will last until Sandor or Arya came to Winterfell or maybe even Bran if he came to Winterfell can do quick check on LF.

[illinifan]

I think it would be neat that while being defeated by the Starks he is still standing at the end of the story.  Perhaps this is where the Iron Bank or something comes into play.  There could be a scene between LF and the Starks where LF explains his mistake was wanting power in the open and how he has more power than he has ever imagined now pulling the strings as the money.  

I dunno.  It would just he neat if not all the villains in the story were killed.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Littlefinger's continued existence on this show, at this point is a massive Plot Hole. However, him and Sansa are so intertwined that it must be her involved in his downfall. Jon knows LF sold Sansa, the King's (2 Kings) sister to the Boltons whom Ramsay wed and raped her brutally and for LF's benefit. Lord Royce is now there and we know LF tried to frame him to Sweet Robin for doing what HE did to Sansa. So, the elephant in the room up there in Winterfell is LF and he needs to be addressed Asap. Lord Royce, Sansa and Jon could address the Vale Knights and other Lords, explain what happend to Sansa and LF should be executed (I would love to see a Heart Tree Sacrafice). To me, the longer he lives into Season 7, the dumber this show is going to look in and around Winterfell.

They may be waiting for Sandor to get there to reveal that it was he that betrayed Ned and probably convinced Joff to break the deal they made with Ned and had him executed instead of letting him take the Black.

[Future Null Infinity]

14 minutes ago, Cragen said:

Only way for him to survive is to leave Winterfell right now and go to Vale were he can influence Robin. I don't see him doing so

If he returns to the vale, I think that Robin will never accept the advice of LF to take the Knights of the vale and enter a war against the starks, they are his cousins, so yes I agree with you : he can't

[TheCasualObserver]

The show never shies away from making Sansa look like an idiot, so I'm expecting her to trust LF at least once more before she inevitably offs him. 

And, because I literally can't stop myself - LF's plan's are by no means proof of his capacities as a political strategist or manipulator; they succeed solely upon the whims of the plot.

[A Ghost of Someone]

13 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

The show never shies away from making Sansa look like an idiot, so I'm expecting her to trust LF at least once more before she inevitably offs him. 

And, because I literally can't stop myself - LF's plan's are by no means proof of his capacities as a political strategist or manipulator; they succeed solely upon the whims of the plot.

Ain't that the truth? LF has the thickest plot armor on the show at this point.

[TheCasualObserver]

2 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Ain't that the truth? LF has the thickest plot armor on the show at this point.

Ramsay overtook him in plot armor for much of season 5 and the first half of season 6, but the status quo was eventually restored.

[A Ghost of Someone]

8 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

Ramsay overtook him in plot armor for much of season 5 and the first half of season 6, but the status quo was eventually restored.

Yeah, but since Season 1, Sansa has yet to figure out he betrayed her dad, Ned. Then again, she and Jon know that he sold her to the Boltons, their sworn and now, vanquished enemies so the "stupid" clock is ticking every second of the show here after that that slimy bugger is still alive.

[illinifan]

1 hour ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Yeah, but since Season 1, Sansa has yet to figure out he betrayed her dad, Ned. Then again, she and Jon know that he sold her to the Boltons, their sworn and now, vanquished enemies so the "stupid" clock is ticking every second of the show here after that that slimy bugger is still alive.

Neither Jon nor Sansa trust LF but LF also controls the biggest army in the area.

[Cragen]

3 minutes ago, illinifan said:

Neither Jon nor Sansa trust LF but LF also controls the biggest army in the area.

LF control nothing, Lords of Vale hate him and Sweetrobin is not around to be manipulated, only reason for Knights of Vale to march north is to save Sansa.

[illinifan]

5 minutes ago, Cragen said:

LF control nothing, Lords of Vale hate him and Sweetrobin is not around to be manipulated, only reason for Knights of Vale to march north is to save Sansa.

He still has more control over them through Robin than either Jon or Sansa do.

[A Ghost of Someone]

4 minutes ago, illinifan said:

Neither Jon nor Sansa trust LF but LF also controls the biggest army in the area.

as to who controls the Vale army, Ep 10 really clouds that.

Where is Sweet Robin? The Vale? I hope the Mountain Clans decide to use all of that good steel the Lannisters gave them and take out that little momma's boy.

Lord Royce and the Vale Lords that were in the great hall declared Jon King in the North while LF is sulking in the corner and staring at Sansa. Jon has a bigger influence over the Vale forces in the North than Littlefinger it appears.

All it takes is a very logical conversation between Lord Royce, Sansa and Jon and LF should be a dead man or "sent to take the Black"

Seriously, the longer he lives into next season, the worse the story telling is.

[Cragen]

4 minutes ago, illinifan said:

He still has more control over them through Robin than either Jon or Sansa do.

LF threatened Lord Royce when he confront him about Sansa, if Royce get opportunity to get rid of LF he will use it and in process he will become Lord Protector of Vale.

[illinifan]

21 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

as to who controls the Vale army, Ep 10 really clouds that.

Where is Sweet Robin? The Vale? I hope the Mountain Clans decide to use all of that good steel the Lannisters gave them and take out that little momma's boy.

Lord Royce and the Vale Lords that were in the great hall declared Jon King in the North while LF is sulking in the corner and staring at Sansa. Jon has a bigger influence over the Vale forces in the North than Littlefinger it appears.

All it takes is a very logical conversation between Lord Royce, Sansa and Jon and LF should be a dead man or "sent to take the Black"

Seriously, the longer he lives into next season, the worse the story telling is.

I thought that was confusing and perhaps we are reading more into than we really should although there is a lot of interesting things happening in the KiTN scene.

[TheCasualObserver]

9 minutes ago, illinifan said:

I thought that was confusing and perhaps we are reading more into than we really should although there is a lot of interesting things happening in the KiTN scene.

Well, Royce was clearly waving his sword for Jon. Even the commands of Lord Paramounts come behind Kings. LF is one conversation away from political oblivion...potentially literal oblivion.

But that reasoning "makes sense" so I have no doubt whatsoever that he will wriggle out of it.

[illinifan]

31 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

Well, Royce was clearly waving his sword for Jon. Even the commands of Lord Paramounts come behind Kings. LF is one conversation away from political oblivion...potentially literal oblivion.

But that reasoning "makes sense" so I have no doubt whatsoever that he will wriggle out of it.

Yes.  But I am not sure the producers meant anything by it.

[Future Null Infinity]

10 minutes ago, illinifan said:

Yes.  But I am not sure the producers meant anything by it.

Hype, they didn't mean anything by it, the inside the episode is pure hype, to let us guessing about the upcoming hypothetical little starky civil war

[Lady Knows Nothing]

I think Littlefinger has wore out his welcome. He doesn't really offer anything except for playing off other people's weakness. I don't think Sansa trusts Littlefinger like she did in the first few seasons. She definitely is starting to see him for the man that he is but that doesn't mean that she doesn't find him useful. He did come to her aid in the Battle of the Bastards. I think that Littlefinger's love/affection towards Sansa and her mother isn't based on true love. I think he sees/saw them as more like trophies. Someone to hang onto his arm while he rules the world. But we have seen a change in Sansa. She is not that same little girl who has to have people tell her what to think all the time. She is starting to make her own decisions about things and is taking charge of her own life. I am wondering what is going to happen with Robin? If Littlefinger is going to keep using him or what? Let me know what you think.