NBA Offseason: Oklahoma! Where the MVP Free Agents Come Falling From the Sky

[David Selig]

David West will join the Warriors on a minimum deal. The guy is quickly becoming the most desperate ring chaser ever.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, David Selig said:

David West will join the Warriors on a minimum deal. The guy is quickly becoming the most desperate ring chaser ever.

Eh, can you blame him? That's a great signing for the Warriors. Idk how much he has left, but he could give them some solid bench minutes. 

[David Selig]

IMO giving up millions just to have a shot at winning a ring as a bench player is really dumb, but it is his money.

[Calibandar]

Quote Relic:

Quote

5 hours ago, Relic said:

Of course they do. It's a much better trade now than it was then, in hindsight. OKC is no longer a contender, so they did the best thing they could do if they want to rebuild. They got multiple players for one dude who was probably not going to resign next year. They got younger, cheaper, and acquired good first round draft pick too. Great trade for them. 

Well...

Great trade you say but what if you look at actual quality? Not about getting even cheaper and even younger, but actual team quality to start?

You've lost Ibaka, you've gained Oladipo, Ilyasova and a rookie.

Ilyasova and the rookie are going to give you a little bit of contribution from the bench if you're lucky.

You're basically swapping Oladipo for Ibaka. That being the case, for me Ibaka is the more valuable player. 

And the trade is even worse with Durant gone. With Durant there, you at least have someone who can play power forward to replace Ibaka's minutes. Without Durant, you now have a nice backcourt, but no power forward *and* no small forward. From your original core of 4 superb guys, you're now left with just Westbrook, and two of those top guys are gone because you chose to trade them. Also, in hindsight, which is what the question was, do the Thunder still make that Ibaka trade now, you have to conclude that Ibaka's main complaint, namely not getting enough shots, would have been solved with Durant's departure.

I feel it's obvious that the Ibaka trade was done with the eye to Durant staying, and that it was premature. He's now decided to leave, and now you have the backcourt you always lacked since trading Harden, but no Durant, and no power forward. You essentially need to fulfill two spots now because of that move, because Singler and Ilyasova are not even basic NBA level starts at those positions. Could they not have kept Ibaka and re-signed Waiters as the starting shooting guard? Is Oladipo actually a better player than Waiters? I am not yet sold on that. He'll be cheaper, I'll grant you that, but quality wise, I don't love this trade one bit.

Edit; If you're looking at it with the eye just on re-building, if you've given up all hope of contenting for anything this year, then sure, quality doesn't matter. But that's not where OKC is right now. They only need to go in full rebuild mode if they need to trade Westbrook because he wont stay. But with Russell, but without Durant, I'd rather have Ibaka stay, and see what sort of a replacement I can get at small forward.

 

 

[sperry]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

What? Kanter would be a massive downgrade for the Cavs. He's a worse defender than Love and doesn't give you the same floor spacing. 

 

Kanter is one of the best finishers and offensive rebounders in the league, with LeBron and Kyrie consistently driving to the basket that's a nightmare. The Cavs don't need the spacing Love creates, they've got plenty of guys that are better shooters than him. And I'm not convinced Love provides more spacing than Kanter. Kanter can shoot from anywhere on the floor.

 

 

 Kanter is weaker than Love defensively, but having Thompson there to protect the rim mitigates that effect.  Kanter just fits the Cavs roster better.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 minutes ago, David Selig said:

IMO giving up millions just to have a shot at winning a ring as a bench player is really dumb, but it is his money.

Well considering the early reports were that he was likely to retire, I think it makes a lot of sense to get an easy paycheck while having his best chance ever to win a ring.

And there is a point where a player is wealthy enough that the ring actually carries more value to them. 

[Calibandar]

Poor Milwaukee Bucks. They are just being used as pawns in a game between Wade and Riley.

He was supposed to go and have a meeting with them but now he's cancelled.

Is there a more absurd idea than Dwayne Wade suddenly signing with Milwaukee and end his career there? It is almost too funny to see that reported in earnest.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

Kanter is one of the best finishers and offensive rebounders in the league, with LeBron and Kyrie consistently driving to the basket that's a nightmare. The Cavs don't need the spacing Love creates, they've got plenty of guys that are better shooters than him. And I'm not convinced Love provides more spacing than Kanter. Kanter can shoot from anywhere on the floor.

With Kanter they'd have another body near the rim which would make it harder to drive. So Love's spacing absolutely helps that aspect of their game. And on top of that, Kyrie is a horrid defender so adding another terrible defender only makes it that much harder for the other 3 starters on the floor. The move just doesn't make a lot of sense for the Cavs Imo. It would be great for the Thunder though. 

 

[briantw]

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

With Kanter they'd have another body near the rim which would make it harder to drive. So Love's spacing absolutely helps that aspect of their game. And on top of that, Kyrie is a horrid defender so adding another terrible defender only makes it that much harder for the other 3 starters on the floor. The move just doesn't make a lot of sense for the Cavs Imo. It would be great for the Thunder though. 

I think the Finals should put to rest the notion that Kyrie is a horrid defender.  He's not amazing or anything, but he can be passable when he really puts in the effort.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

6 minutes ago, briantw said:

I think the Finals should put to rest the notion that Kyrie is a horrid defender.  He's not amazing or anything, but he can be passable when he really puts in the effort.

Yeah, I think he really bought in during the Finals. His defense was certainly no worse than Curry's was.

[briantw]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I think he really bought in during the Finals. His defense was certainly no worse than Curry's was.

It was definitely better than Curry's was.  The Cavs absolutely abused Curry by forcing him to switch to every one on the team.  The Warriors didn't do that to Kyrie.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

It was definitely better than Curry's was.  The Cavs absolutely abused Curry by forcing him to switch to every one on the team.  The Warriors didn't do that to Kyrie.

It wasn't until Game 7 that the Cavs were doing that with any sort of regularity. And I'm not sure how that applies to how Kyrie played defensively. I'd say it was more or less a wash.

[briantw]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

It wasn't until Game 7 that the Cavs were doing that with any sort of regularity. And I'm not sure how that applies to how Kyrie played defensively. I'd say it was more or less a wash.

They actually started doing it in game three, which is part of why they turned the series around.  They started doing the same things that Golden State does: illegal screens and switching to exploit the mismatch on offense.  The refs called the game evenly, letting both teams set those illegal screens that Golden State got away with all year and the Warriors had no answer except to cry about it.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 minutes ago, briantw said:

I think the Finals should put to rest the notion that Kyrie is a horrid defender.  He's not amazing or anything, but he can be passable when he really puts in the effort.

Nah. It was a small sample in which he was guarding an injured Curry. Over a larger representative sample (THe entire season) he ranked 80th out of 81 qualifying PGs in the NBA for overall defense.

4 minutes ago, briantw said:

It was definitely better than Curry's was.  The Cavs absolutely abused Curry by forcing him to switch to every one on the team.  The Warriors didn't do that to Kyrie.

Again, Curry was hurt. It's debatable how big an impact that had, but you can't say he was close to 100%. When healthy during the regular season Curry wrecked Irving. And like you said, they were attacking him all game, all series long, and I'm sure that drained him. The Warriors didn't do the same thing because they really didn't have anyone who could. Let's see what happens when KD returns the favor next year. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 minutes ago, briantw said:

They actually started doing it in game three, which is part of why they turned the series around.  They started doing the same things that Golden State does: illegal screens and switching to exploit the mismatch on offense.  The refs called the game evenly, letting both teams set those illegal screens that Golden State got away with all year and the Warriors had no answer except to cry about it.

It's crazy how they did that. All year people were pointing out that Green should be fouling out midway through the game if they were calling those illegal screens correctly. 

And ME, Brian's right, it started mid way through game 3. 

[briantw]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It's crazy how they did that. All year people were pointing out that Green should be fouling out midway through the game if they were calling those illegal screens correctly. 

And ME, Brian's right, it started mid way through game 3. 

Yeah, that's one reason the Warriors are much better built for the regular season.  They're not a particularly tough team, even though they act like it.  When the game gets more physical in the playoffs, it's harder for them to adjust because they don't have to deal with that all year.  They're the NBA's darlings, and so they get the benefit of the doubt on calls all year.  As soon as the refs start swallowing their whistle deeper into the playoffs, though, that's not the case.

Curry should foul out basically every game too, by the way.  He's always reaching, mostly because he can't stay in front of anyone.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

4 minutes ago, briantw said:

They're the NBA's darlings, and so they get the benefit of the doubt on calls all year.  As soon as the refs start swallowing their whistle deeper into the playoffs, though, that's not the case.

 LeBron gets more bullshit rinky-dink foul calls than any player in the league, so please do not bitch to me about the Warriors being "NBA darlings". 

[briantw]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 LeBron gets more bullshit rinky-dink foul calls than any player in the league, so please do not bitch to me about the Warriors being "NBA darlings". 

This is absolutely not true.  He gets away with a lot defensively, but he doesn't get anywhere near the calls on the offensive end.  He gets hammered almost every time he goes to the paint, but it's only called about a quarter of the time.  He suffers from Shaq syndrome.  He's so big and strong that he can fight through contact, and so the refs don't whistle it much of the time.

[DunderMifflin]

Lebron probably should get more fouls called on him, but he does get the royal 3 - 6 steps and it's still not traveling. That's usually only awarded to the consensus best player in the league. Kobe had it once. Jordan had it over a decade.

 

I mean everybody gets to travel some anyway, they might as well change the rule to reflect reality.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

24 minutes ago, briantw said:

Yeah, that's one reason the Warriors are much better built for the regular season.  They're not a particularly tough team, even though they act like it.  When the game gets more physical in the playoffs, it's harder for them to adjust because they don't have to deal with that all year.  They're the NBA's darlings, and so they get the benefit of the doubt on calls all year.  As soon as the refs start swallowing their whistle deeper into the playoffs, though, that's not the case.

 The bolded part is ridiculous. Game 4 (The infamous nut-shot game) was by far the most physical game of the series. The Warriors gave as good as they got in that game, and ended up winning it.