NBA Offseason: Oklahoma! Where the MVP Free Agents Come Falling From the Sky

[Maithanet]

6 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Then again, let's be positive, maybe he loves being the leader of this franchise and stays. It's not like they need to go in a rebuild mode, they need someone ( or maybe two players) to "replace" Durant. As it stands now, this is still not a bad or mediocre team I think. And there is room to sign someone.

It's possible.  If OKC is still a 50 win team, then Westbrook might stay.  Attracting a free agent to OKC is a tough sell though, even if the team is good.  Any chance Harden would come back? 

[sperry]

6 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

It's possible.  If OKC is still a 50 win team, then Westbrook might stay.  Attracting a free agent to OKC is a tough sell though, even if the team is good.  Any chance Harden would come back? 

 

I don't think Harden would.  Blake Griffin is far and away the best bet, since he's from Oklahoma, went to college in Oklahoma, and his parents live in Oklahoma City. He's a UFA after this season.

[Jaime L]

33 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

Durant really screwed the Thunder over. He knew he was going to bail for months, even before the playoffs, yet blatantly mislead the organization and everyone else so he could have this dog and pony show. Said dog and pony show then took basically the entire free agent period, which left the Thunder without the ability to try to grab anyone relevant, like a Chandler Parsons or Harrison Barnes.

 

The Thunder are between a rock and a hard place, that's for sure.  I don't think Russ will be traded til the deadline, if at all, because it's in the Thunder's interest to see how the team plays. If Adams and/or Oladipo can take a leap this offseason, then you're still looking at a good team, and one that can make some noise in the playoffs and maybe be viable down the road with a free agent addition.

 

If he doesn't resign, then you need to Sixers this thing. Unlike Philly, who continually whiffed on draft picks, Presti has been the best GM in the draft during his tenure, with an outraeous hit rate and a ton of superstars.  You also have a lot of pieces that are worth high draft picks.  Russ is worth mulitple high first rounders, Adams and Oladipo would both be worth high lottery picks. Next year's draft is supposed to be one of the best in recent memory, so now is the time to start the rebuild if that's what you're going to do.

I'm not so sure he knew for sure what he was going to do until the very end. You think he's bailing if OKC wins a title? I don't. Or heck, if they just hold on and beat GS, it's hard to imagine him leaving in favor of the team he just vanquished. Heck, if GS wins the title...I think that also factors in to his decision as it makes him look like an even worse bandwagoner than he's already coming off as now. Just feel like it was the perfect storm of events that ended up screwing over OKC.

And now it appears OKC becomes the greatest almost-was dynasty, edging out the Magic of the 90s. Definitely need a 30 for 30 on this subject, stat. 

[sperry]

Just now, Jaime L said:

I'm not so sure he knew for sure what he was going to do until the very end. You think he's bailing if OKC wins a title? I don't. Or heck, if they just hold on and beat GS, it's hard to imagine him leaving in favor of the team he just vanquished. Heck, if GS wins the title...I think that also factors in to his decision as it makes him look like an even worse bandwagoner than he's already coming off as now. Just feel like it was the perfect storm of events that ended up screwing over OKC.

And now it appears OKC becomes the greatest almost-was dynasty, edging out the Magic of the 90s. Definitely need a 30 for 30 on this subject, stat. 

 

I obviously don't "know" that, but everything we're readign talks about how Curry and co. were in his ear all year about joining. It would hurt his image to leave for GS if he beat them, although his image is already taking a beating which he had to know.  It's just clear this wasn't a basketball decision, despite what he says.  This past season proved they could win a title.  They lost an incredibly close series to an evenly matched team, and they had young talent that was getting better plus would have added Al Horford.  From a pure basketball perspective, a Thunder team of Russell, Kevin, Oladipo, Al Horford, Steven Adams is just as terrifying on paper as this Warriors super team.

 

He had a lot of people pushing on him to get out of OKC.  He has a ton of family members and friends that he is taking care of that hated OKC.  It's not a secret that Jay Z wanted him on the coasts.  Kevin himself seemed to be fine with OKC, but that may have all been an act, we'll probably never know.

[Jaime L]

11 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

I obviously don't "know" that, but everything we're readign talks about how Curry and co. were in his ear all year about joining. It would hurt his image to leave for GS if he beat them, although his image is already taking a beating which he had to know.  It's just clear this wasn't a basketball decision, despite what he says.  This past season proved they could win a title.  They lost an incredibly close series to an evenly matched team, and they had young talent that was getting better plus would have added Al Horford.  From a pure basketball perspective, a Thunder team of Russell, Kevin, Oladipo, Al Horford, Steven Adams is just as terrifying on paper as this Warriors super team.

 

He had a lot of people pushing on him to get out of OKC.  He has a ton of family members and friends that he is taking care of that hated OKC.  It's not a secret that Jay Z wanted him on the coasts.  Kevin himself seemed to be fine with OKC, but that may have all been an act, we'll probably never know.

They were definitely selling him on GS all season but I still think he was keeping his options open. I get the sense he has a really strong relationship with Presti and Westbrook (though is also really frustrated at times by him as well). But the second he started taking all those meetings, there was always going to be the possibility that someone blows him away. 

OKC would've been awesome this year. That said joining forces with GS is otherworldly. Zack Lowe brought up a great point that a Curry-Durant pick and roll literally cannot be defended. There's no counter. Curry and Durant have been running pick and rolls for years with so-so shooters (Green and Westbrook respectively). Those semi-inefficiencies at least give other teams a chance. Once Durant adjusts to the fold, and assuming injuries doesn't factor in, this is the perfect starting 5 that exists. 

[Maithanet]

15 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Once Durant adjusts to the fold, and assuming injuries doesn't factor in, this is the perfect starting 5 that exists. 

In 2016, the top 5 players in the league were probably Curry, Lebron, Leonard, Westbrook and Durant (quite possibly in that order).  If you made a Top 5 players not on the Warriors list, it would probably be Westbrook, Lillard, Leonard, Lebron, and Davis (could substitute Aldridge or Griffin or Cousins for Lillard to go bigger).  That team would be more talented than the Warriors, and would be able to give them a ton of problems inside, but they would still struggle to contain the Doomsday lineup of Curry, Klay, Iggy, Durant and Green. 

And of course, unlike the Warriors, those five players all play for different teams.

[sperry]

1 minute ago, Jaime L said:

They were definitely selling him on GS all season but I still think he was keeping his options open. I get the sense he has a really strong relationship with Presti and Westbrook (though is also really frustrated at times by him as well). But the second he started taking all those meetings, there was always going to be the possibility that someone blows him away. 

OKC would've been awesome this year. That said joining forces with GS is otherworldly. Zack Lowe brought up a great point that a Curry-Durant pick and roll literally cannot be defended. There's no counter. Curry and Durant have been running pick and rolls for years with so-so shooters (Green and Westbrook respectively). Those semi-inefficiencies at least give other teams a chance. Once Durant adjusts to the fold, and assuming injuries doesn't factor in, this is the perfect starting 5 that exists. 

 

I just don't see where the "perfect" starting 5 stuff comes in.  A perfect starting 5 would have a real center.  They are going to be weak to post play all year, and the Clippers in particular are a team they do not want to face. There are lots of variables. KD is an iso player.  He has never been known for his ball movement. He has never played well off the ball, and has frankly been pretty lazy off the ball.  There are diminishing returns on shooters as there are only so many shots to go around.  The guy he is replacing was a really good 3 point shooter, so it's not like they took a guy you could leave alone in the corner and replaced him with Durant. Bogut was a damn good player and an underrated cog in what the Warriors did. They went from having a ridiculous bench to having a really thin one.

 

It boils down to this. They are a much worse defensive team without Andrew Bogut.  Can they make up for that deficit by improving on an offense that was already basically the most efficient in NBA history.  It is certainly possible that they will, but I also don't think it's anywhere close to a slam dunk.

[Rhom]

All I know is that it was probably pretty easy to get a table at KD's restaurant in OKC the last few days...

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

33 minutes ago, sperry said:

 It's just clear this wasn't a basketball decision, despite what he says.  This past season proved they could win a title.  They lost an incredibly close series to an evenly matched team, and they had young talent that was getting better plus would have added Al Horford.  

 It's still a basketball decision. Yes, OKC proved they could go toe to toe with the Warriors in this WCF, but if you take Durant off OKC and put him on Golden State, you now have a heavy favorite. If the answer for Durant was "where do I have the best shot at a ring" the answer is clearly Golden State.

 Not sure how Horford fits into that group either cap wise or playing time wise. I suppose that might be an interesting idea, but I don't know how you came to the conclusion that this would've been a sure thing. Or even a desirable move, really. 

[Fez]

15 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Once Durant adjusts to the fold, and assuming injuries doesn't factor in, this is the perfect starting 5 that exists. 

Theoretically, off the top my head, you could replace Green with LeBron and already have an even better starting 5.

[Relic]

2 hours ago, StefCurry said:

Wade for CaVs

That's not happening. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

13 minutes ago, sperry said:

I just don't see where the "perfect" starting 5 stuff comes in.  A perfect starting 5 would have a real center.  They are going to be weak to post play all year, and the Clippers in particular are a team they do not want to face. There are lots of variables. KD is an iso player.  He has never been known for his ball movement. He has never played well off the ball, and has frankly been pretty lazy off the ball.  There are diminishing returns on shooters as there are only so many shots to go around.  The guy he is replacing was a really good 3 point shooter, so it's not like they took a guy you could leave alone in the corner and replaced him with Durant. Bogut was a damn good player and an underrated cog in what the Warriors did. They went from having a ridiculous bench to having a really thin one.

 

It boils down to this. They are a much worse defensive team without Andrew Bogut.  Can they make up for that deficit by improving on an offense that was already basically the most efficient in NBA history.  It is certainly possible that they will, but I also don't think it's anywhere close to a slam dunk.

 I was really worried about how this was going to effect the bench, but it appears that this may have been a presumptive concern. What with these minimum signings of Pachulia and West, I don't think the damage to the bench is going to be as bad as I first thought.

 

 I have every confidence that Durant will be willing and able to play the warriors style of ball movement. I tend to think that this was a big factor in getting him to move, really. I get the impression that he was getting tired of playing a style of basketball that should probably be retired. (ISO)

[sperry]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 I was really worried about how this was going to effect the bench, but it appears that this may have been a presumptive concern. What with these minimum signings of Pachulia and West, I don't think the damage to the bench is going to be as bad as I first thought.

 

 I have every confidence that Durant will be willing and able to play the warriors style of ball movement. I tend to think that this was a big factor in getting him to move, really. I get the impression that he was getting tired of playing a style of basketball that should probably be retired. (ISO)

 

West is slipping fast. He was a huge liability in the Thunder series.  Pachulia is much worse than Bogut, and I don't think I'd take him over Ezeli either.  Plus, he's either a starter, or that means that you no longer have Iguodala coming off the bench. Either way, the bench is worse.  Barbosa is gone, Brandon Rush is gone, Speights is gone unless he signs for the league minimum, Ian Clark is gone, James Michael McAdoo is gone.

 

They still have Livingston as an excellent backup PG.  Pachulia is a fine backup center.  West will provide some offensive spark.  They have that rookie center they took in the first round, who they are actually going to need to be capable of giving some minutes.

 

They went from arguably the deepest team in the league, to a team with a very shallow rotation. Again, it may not matter. If they can get that offense to click on cylinders, it's probably a moot point.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, sperry said:

 

West is slipping fast. He was a huge liability in the Thunder series.  Pachulia is much worse than Bogut, and I don't think I'd take him over Ezeli either.  Plus, he's either a starter, or that means that you no longer have Iguodala coming off the bench. Either way, the bench is worse.  Barbosa is gone, Brandon Rush is gone, Speights is gone unless he signs for the league minimum, Ian Clark is gone, James Michael McAdoo is gone.

 

They still have Livingston as an excellent backup PG.  Pachulia is a fine backup center.  West will provide some offensive spark.  They have that rookie center they took in the first round, who they are actually going to need to be capable of giving some minutes.

 

They went from arguably the deepest team in the league, to a team with a very shallow rotation. Again, it may not matter. If they can get that offense to click on cylinders, it's probably a moot point.

 Not sure where you're getting your info regarding Barbosa. He was paid 2.5 million for last season, and every he's given every indication that he's willing to comeback on a similar contract. Can't speak for Speights, but it seems like he could be a bit extraneous at this point. Rush, Ian Clark and McAdoo are kind of irrelevant, methinks.

 

 The one thing I'm in complete agreement with you about is the loss of Bogut. That is going to make them very vulnerable inside for sure.

[sperry]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Not sure where you're getting your info regarding Barbosa. He was paid 2.5 million for last season, and every he's given every indication that he's willing to comeback on a similar contract. Can't speak for Speights, but it seems like he could be a bit extraneous at this point. Rush, Ian Clark and McAdoo are kind of irrelevant, methinks.

 

 The one thing I'm in complete agreement with you about is the loss of Bogut. That is going to make them very vulnerable inside for sure.

 

Barbosa is a UFA.  Had not seen that he would return for the league minimum, but that's all that the Warriors can offer anyone. If he does, that's a help.

[Jaime L]

15 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

In 2016, the top 5 players in the league were probably Curry, Lebron, Leonard, Westbrook and Durant (quite possibly in that order).  If you made a Top 5 players not on the Warriors list, it would probably be Westbrook, Lillard, Leonard, Lebron, and Davis (could substitute Aldridge or Griffin or Cousins for Lillard to go bigger).  That team would be more talented than the Warriors, and would be able to give them a ton of problems inside, but they would still struggle to contain the Doomsday lineup of Curry, Klay, Iggy, Durant and Green. 

And of course, unlike the Warriors, those five players all play for different teams.

Agreed. It'd be competitive playing the 5 best non-GS players put together. I'd probably favor them against the Eastern Conference starting lineup.

16 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

I just don't see where the "perfect" starting 5 stuff comes in.  A perfect starting 5 would have a real center.  They are going to be weak to post play all year, and the Clippers in particular are a team they do not want to face. There are lots of variables. KD is an iso player.  He has never been known for his ball movement. He has never played well off the ball, and has frankly been pretty lazy off the ball.  There are diminishing returns on shooters as there are only so many shots to go around.  The guy he is replacing was a really good 3 point shooter, so it's not like they took a guy you could leave alone in the corner and replaced him with Durant. Bogut was a damn good player and an underrated cog in what the Warriors did. They went from having a ridiculous bench to having a really thin one.

 

It boils down to this. They are a much worse defensive team without Andrew Bogut.  Can they make up for that deficit by improving on an offense that was already basically the most efficient in NBA history.  It is certainly possible that they will, but I also don't think it's anywhere close to a slam dunk.

Not in today's game. See the last two titles that were won by teams that didn't use a center as part of their best lineup (i.e: Cleveland with Tristan Thompson at the 5, Golden State using Green at the 5). Hell the Bulls won 6 titles with a bunch of centers who were just guys and that was 20 years ago. 

Plus Durant is a 7' unicorn. He started to unveil his center-like abilities in the GS series last year. And if a guy is too physical for Durant to handle well that's what Green is for. 

I'm not saying it's the absolute perfect starting lineup possible. You'd definitely need Anthony Davis, Karl Anthony Towns or Lebron involved for that obviously. But in terms of having elite talent and the ceiling of this team if everything clicks, nothing in the last 30 years matches the ceiling of their starting lineup 1-5.  

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, sperry said:

Barbosa is a UFA.  Had not seen that he would return for the league minimum, but that's all that the Warriors can offer anyone. If he does, that's a help.

 That's what he played for last season, more or less. I haven't heard anything solid yet, but it seems to be the assumption around here that he is willing to stay for the same pay.

[Maithanet]

14 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Agreed. It'd be competitive playing the 5 best non-GS players put together. I'd probably favor them against the Eastern Conference starting lineup.

Looking at last year's Eastern Conference All-Stars, I would think that the best five would be to have Wall, Butler, Lebron, George and Horford.  Comparing those, Curry > Wall, Klay = Butler, Iggy < Lebron, Durant > George, Green = Horford.  Looking at that, I think it would be close.  The East All Stars could really bring it on defense, but I think that GSW has a more potent offensive attack.  The East don't have nearly the floor spacing that Curry, Klay and Durant provide. 

[briantw]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16791990/nba-changes-led-kevin-durant-departure-oklahoma-city-thunder

This article really gives you an idea of what a beta bitch Durant is.  He went to Golden State because he didn't want to be a leader any more.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, briantw said:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16791990/nba-changes-led-kevin-durant-departure-oklahoma-city-thunder

This article really gives you an idea of what a beta bitch Durant is.  He went to Golden State because he didn't want to be a leader any more.

Really? Beta bitch? Wow.