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Jeyne Westerling: Queen Regent of the North?


House Beaudreau

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If it turns out that Jeyne Westerling is in hiding and the Jeyne we see at Riverrun with Jamie was a fake... and if she is pregnant with Rob's child(or even a child that could pass for Robs child) Would Northern House and River lords rise up to defend the Heir to the King in the North and the King of the Trident?  

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I don't think that Jeyne is pregnant. In any case even if she gives birth to Robb's child she is still a Westerling and her family betrayed Robb so she will not be a regent. If she is lucky she will stay near her child if not she will give birth and will never see her child again.

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31 minutes ago, House Beaudreau said:

If it turns out that Jeyne Westerling is in hiding and the Jeyne we see at Riverrun with Jamie was a fake... and if she is pregnant with Rob's child(or even a child that could pass for Robs child) Would Northern House and River lords rise up to defend the Heir to the King in the North and the King of the Trident?  

she isn't pregnant, and George sayd her hips were a mistake, like Renly's eyes 

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Even if she was pregnant and then hiding with the child, reestablishing control would be hard; the lords of the North and the Riverlands would have to rise up once again against the crown and also against the Freys and the Boltons.

The hips issue has been corrected, and Jeyne's mother claims to have been giving her moon tea or something similar, so we can pretty confidently say Jeyne is not pregnant.

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She is not pregnant, but even so, as Jaime realizes, she is a threat to the Lannisters just the same.  As the widow of the martyred King of the North and the Riverlands, she would be a powerful symbol to rally a rebellion around if she were to get loose.  Hence Jaime's orders to Forley Prester to keep an even closer eye on her than Edmure.

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I don't think GRRM said she would be the focus, just that she would appear in the prologue.

Moon tea aside, there is a missing Westerling daughter. Eleyna was in RR with Jeyne ,as well.

Reynald Westerling is presumed dead... but no body... The Blackfish has escaped, and either Jeyne or Eleyna is MIA..

Something's going on.

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They would defend that baby's right but given the history with Sybell i think the regent would be someone else from the family, maybe Sansa or Jon or any of the loyal lord

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She certainly wouldn't be disgraced if she was rescued. She's be be taken in by the Starks or bannermen loyal to Robb.. and I'm sure she'd prefer that to being used as a pawn by her family or the Lannisters again.

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I don't think she was pregnant.Even if she was, she has probably given birth by now. 

I don't think she survives for much time.Stoneheart will arrest her on her way to Casterly Rock. She will think all Westerlings were plotting with Twyin and she will hang them all. 

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Jeyne is never going to be in a position to rule anything. She is still a girl and her mother regularly beats and chastises her. That is not going to be the person to inspire anyone else.

At best she could be a symbol/pawn as 'Arya Stark' is right now at Winterfell as Ramsay's wife. But I don't think it will come to that.

I think Jeyne will either breathe her last breath in the Prologue of TWoW (possibly as the POV) or die soon thereafter when she meets with Mother Merciless and gets her due. I don't see any reason why her life should be spared. Jeyne herself might have been innocent enough (although I'm pretty sure she was quite aware of the honey trap part she was playing back at the Crag) but her mother clearly was not.

And I don't see any reason why it shouldn't give pleasure to Catelyn to have Sybell watch Jeyne die before she herself hangs. Remember, Catelyn has no scruples to kill innocent bystanders Podrick Payne (a child) and Hyle Hunt. Why should she spare Jeyne? She certainly contributed a lot to the downfall of House Stark and the Red Wedding.

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1 hour ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

Only by blood of her child can she claim the title queen in the north .

And if she did have a child, I think the north would accept her as queen mother ,but not queen regent.

The child would need to have a Stark (or northern)  regent.

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4 hours ago, bemused said:

And if she did have a child, I think the north would accept her as queen mother ,but not queen regent.

The child would need to have a Stark (or northern)  regent.

I suspect that Robb's will may have named Jon as Regent to any heirs of his (Robb's) body.

6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Jeyne is never going to be in a position to rule anything. She is still a girl and her mother regularly beats and chastises her. That is not going to be the person to inspire anyone else.

At best she could be a symbol/pawn as 'Arya Stark' is right now at Winterfell as Ramsay's wife. But I don't think it will come to that.

I think Jeyne will either breathe her last breath in the Prologue of TWoW (possibly as the POV) or die soon thereafter when she meets with Mother Merciless and gets her due. I don't see any reason why her life should be spared. Jeyne herself might have been innocent enough (although I'm pretty sure she was quite aware of the honey trap part she was playing back at the Crag) but her mother clearly was not.

And I don't see any reason why it shouldn't give pleasure to Catelyn to have Sybell watch Jeyne die before she herself hangs. Remember, Catelyn has no scruples to kill innocent bystanders Podrick Payne (a child) and Hyle Hunt. Why should she spare Jeyne? She certainly contributed a lot to the downfall of House Stark and the Red Wedding.

I don't see why you think Stoneheart would kill Jeyne Stark-Westerling. Jeyne was at Riverrun when the Red Wedding happened. If she escaped, she's likely spent nearly the entire time with the Blackfish and/or other Stark Loyalists.

If, and that's a big if, Jeyne was intentionally throwing a wrench in the works for Robb, she was causing herself even more trouble - if Robb lost, she would be ruined for the rest of her life. Stoneheart would have no way to know that, per your theory, Jeyne and Robb's relationship was all a plot by the Lannisters/allies to mess things up for Robb.

 

As far as Stoneheart not stopping to kill innocent bystanders ... Podrick Payne - remember Sir Ilyn Payne, the guy who took off Ned's head? they're related, which puts him in the same sort of category as the Freys who weren't actively involved with the Red Wedding at best, and Podrick was Tyrion Lannister's squire/page (the guy who Stoneheart doubtless still blames for trying to kill Bran, not to mention she probably thinks he was raping Sansa every night after they got married), and he's traveling with Brienne who Stoneheart thinks betrayed her oath to Catelyn to serve the Lannisters instead. Don't remember Hyle Hunt offhand, so I can't speak to that instance.

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1 hour ago, Kytheros said:

I suspect that Robb's will may have named Jon as Regent to any heirs of his (Robb's) body.

That makes little sense because Robb's will was supposed to make preparations for the case that he died without an heir of his own body. Jon Snow was a precaution for that case, not somebody he would get out of the NW if he had an infant son - in the name of said son could rule some lord.

1 hour ago, Kytheros said:

I don't see why you think Stoneheart would kill Jeyne Stark-Westerling. Jeyne was at Riverrun when the Red Wedding happened. If she escaped, she's likely spent nearly the entire time with the Blackfish and/or other Stark Loyalists.

That makes no difference. The Westerlings were rewarded by the Lannisters for their role in the demise of Robb Stark. And Catelyn knows that now.

1 hour ago, Kytheros said:

If, and that's a big if, Jeyne was intentionally throwing a wrench in the works for Robb, she was causing herself even more trouble - if Robb lost, she would be ruined for the rest of her life. Stoneheart would have no way to know that, per your theory, Jeyne and Robb's relationship was all a plot by the Lannisters/allies to mess things up for Robb.

Sure she knows that. Tom will tell her that the Westerlings were pardoned and rewarded for their part in everything.

1 hour ago, Kytheros said:

As far as Stoneheart not stopping to kill innocent bystanders ... Podrick Payne - remember Sir Ilyn Payne, the guy who took off Ned's head? they're related, which puts him in the same sort of category as the Freys who weren't actively involved with the Red Wedding at best, and Podrick was Tyrion Lannister's squire/page (the guy who Stoneheart doubtless still blames for trying to kill Bran, not to mention she probably thinks he was raping Sansa every night after they got married), and he's traveling with Brienne who Stoneheart thinks betrayed her oath to Catelyn to serve the Lannisters instead. Don't remember Hyle Hunt offhand, so I can't speak to that instance.

Podrick Payne is still a child and had nothing to do with Ned's execution. Not to mention, you know, that Ilyn Payne is just doing his job. He is a headsman. It makes no sense to blame the king's headsman for executions the king commanded.

The fact that Cat don't cares about not killing innocents is a strong sign that Jeyne is not going to get away. 

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

That makes little sense because Robb's will was supposed to make preparations for the case that he died without an heir of his own body. Jon Snow was a precaution for that case, not somebody he would get out of the NW if he had an infant son - in the name of said son could rule some lord.

 

In the discussion with Catelyn Robb talks about getting Jon out of the Night's Watch and legitimizing him in addition to explicitly naming Jon as Robb's heir in the absence of heirs of his body. Catelyn is opposed because even if Robb trusts Jon not to contest Robb's children, which he does, Catelyn says that Robb cannot be sure about Jon's descendants.

That strongly implies to me, at least, that the plan was to get Jon out of the Watch whether Robb had children or not - to get Jon out and legitimize him as soon as possible, in addition to naming him heir, so that if something were to happen to Robb, Jon would be immediately available to step into Robb's place - that there wouldn't be a delay trying to get Jon out of the Watch, and to wherever he needed to be to take charge, that Robb's enemies might take advantage of. Of course, that plan hasn't exactly worked out particularly well.

With Jon already out of the Night's Watch, legitimized, and named heir following heirs of Robb's body (Robb's children), and given the trust that Robb has in Jon, Jon is a reasonable candidate to name as a regent for Robb's children should something happen to Robb before his children were of age. Robb and Jon were raised by Ned Stark, right next to each other, they got all the same training and teaching. To Robb, Jon is a known quantity who can be trusted to raise and protect his children, to teach them what Ned taught the two of them Robb and Jon got the same education from Ned; Jon would not be influencing Robb's child-heirs to favor someone else's House, nor would they be learning habits of another House, they'd be being brought up as Starks in Stark traditions and ways, by their only remaining Stark relative who wasn't in enemy hands and readily subject to enemy manipulations like Sansa.

 

 

 

I find myself unconvinced that Stoneheart would look to kill Jeyne Stark-Westerlling. I don't see how killing Jeyne - Robb's wife and Queen - achieves vengeance for Stoneheart; Jeyne was classed as "family" - I don't think Stoneheart would kill Jeyne, but I can certainly see, given your suppositions about Stoneheart learning about the Westerling's getting rewarded after Robb died, where Stoneheart would have an interest in killing most of the rest of the Westerling family. Kiliing Jeyne - her daughter-in-law - is something that just doesn't make any sense to me. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that front.

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3 minutes ago, Kytheros said:

In the discussion with Catelyn Robb talks about getting Jon out of the Night's Watch and legitimizing him in addition to explicitly naming Jon as Robb's heir in the absence of heirs of his body. Catelyn is opposed because even if Robb trusts Jon not to contest Robb's children, which he does, Catelyn says that Robb cannot be sure about Jon's descendants.

That strongly implies to me, at least, that the plan was to get Jon out of the Watch whether Robb had children or not - to get Jon out and legitimize him as soon as possible, in addition to naming him heir, so that if something were to happen to Robb, Jon would be immediately available to step into Robb's place - that there wouldn't be a delay trying to get Jon out of the Watch, and to wherever he needed to be to take charge, that Robb's enemies might take advantage of. Of course, that plan hasn't exactly worked out particularly well.

But Jon Snow didn't get out of the Night's Watch and wasn't proclaimed King in the North in the absence of Robb having children of his own body. Robb may have legitimized Jon Snow in his last will but that didn't get him out of the NW. Robb intended to get Jon out of there after he had retaken the North by basically offering the NW a deal they couldn't possibly refuse but nothing came of that.

The idea that Robb would have named a regent for his non-existing son makes no sense at all in any case but especially not Jon who, at this point, would have been unable to take up such an office.

Not to mention that Robb's last will is not very likely to become relevant considering that the Stark loyalists in the North (the Wulls, Manderlys, and Glovers) actually know that Bran and Rickon are still alive, making Robb's entire rationale to legitimize Jon Snow irrelevant.

3 minutes ago, Kytheros said:

With Jon already out of the Night's Watch, legitimized, and named heir following heirs of Robb's body (Robb's children), and given the trust that Robb has in Jon, Jon is a reasonable candidate to name as a regent for Robb's children should something happen to Robb before his children were of age.

In such a scenario such a thing could make sense. But not the way it was. Not to mention that it would not work while Jon Snow was still a minor himself. Regents have to be of age, that's the whole point of being a regent.

3 minutes ago, Kytheros said:

I find myself unconvinced that Stoneheart would look to kill Jeyne Stark-Westerlling. I don't see how killing Jeyne - Robb's wife and Queen - achieves vengeance for Stoneheart; Jeyne was classed as "family" - I don't think Stoneheart would kill Jeyne, but I can certainly see, given your suppositions about Stoneheart learning about the Westerling's getting rewarded after Robb died, where Stoneheart would have an interest in killing most of the rest of the Westerling family. Kiliing Jeyne - her daughter-in-law - is something that just doesn't make any sense to me. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that front.

Well, I guess you haven't really thought about the fact that Catelyn Stark is no longer herself. She is not called Lady Stoneheart or Mother Merciless because she is such a nice and forgiving woman, or is she?

I could even see this verson of Catelyn killing Sansa if she learned that she played a crucial role in the downfall of her own father simply because she no longer cares about playing it nice - especially if Cat also figures out Littlefinger's role in all that and has evidence that Sansa and he are now working together (although I'm not really arguing for something like that).

The idea that Catelyn would care about some in-laws makes no sense at all. She would not only remember Grey Wind's reaction to Jeyne's family but also realize that the Westerlings were always on Tywin's payroll as I've explained above. And an unwitting traitor is still a traitor. Jeyne ruined the Frey alliance for Robb and ensured he would have no children of his own.

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