What do the Others want?

[tugela]

6 hours ago, Shireen Purratheon said:

I don't buy that the Others are stirring because of what Mance did. Mance was doing what he was doing because the Others started stirring.

Then why is he trying to bring down the wall? If he was really concerned about them then surely he would want to keep it up, not destroy it with the Horn of Jorumund(?).

Whatever he has been doing, he has been doing it for quite a while. He has had time to gather 100000 wildlings into an army, and do excavations of countless old burial sites looking for the horn. If the WW really were that dangerous, then all the years he has been up there doing all that would have been more than enough time for them to wipe his forces out. But that did not happen. Maybe Mance's version that he has been telling Jon and the watch is not accurate.

And why is he spending all that time down in the crypts in Winterfell? His people are already this side of the wall, he can't be looking for the horn because he doesn't need it any more (if it's purpose is for what he claims it is).

The guy is up to something, and whatever it is he is NOT telling Jon the real reason.

[tugela]

1 hour ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Maybe the summer needs to reach the ten year mark or something for the Others to believe they will have a long enough winter for them to move south. 

During Maekars reign (221-233AC) a 6 1/2 - 7 year summer took place. A 5 year winter followed but there was no Others invasion or long night battle we know of. 

Maybe the ten year summer ending in 300AC is a prophetic number for the Others. 

Unlikely. They had not been seen for thousands of years, it is exceedingly unlikely that they would be taking note of what was happening down south, which would be necessary to even know that the calendar was 300AC.

[Macgregor of the North]

1 hour ago, tugela said:

Unlikely. They had not been seen for thousands of years, it is exceedingly unlikely that they would be taking note of what was happening down south, which would be necessary to even know that the calendar was 300AC.

They have not been seen by people south of the wall but thats not to say generations of wildlings over the thousands of years have seen no evidence of their existence.

Its not that unlikely the others are waiting for a prophecised time for their long night 2.0 to commence and a ten year summer could well be an indication the time is at hand. The Others are not dumb, they will know the length of summers etc even if they dont know the year A.C.

[Falcon2908]

They want to go south to see Cleganebowl

[princess_snow]

How did Craster come to make his pact with them anyway ? How did he communicate with them ?

[Cato.the.Elder]

8 minutes ago, princess_snow said:

How did Craster come to make his pact with them anyway ? How did he communicate with them ?

Trial and error? He just leave a baby in the woods to die, and they take him. He leaves a second baby and they also take them. The Others decide to leave him alone because babies are useful to them. He realized that he is not being attacked, and thinks that it is because of the human sacrifices, so decides to keep on with them.

[princess_snow]

2 minutes ago, Cato.the.Elder said:

Trial and error? He just leave a baby in the woods to die, and they take him. He leaves a second baby and they also take them. The Others decide to leave him alone because babies are useful to them. He realized that he is not being attacked, and thinks that it is because of the human sacrifices, so decides to keep on with them.

Yeah I guess. I hope we get some sort of back story re this. Will we find out if they are able to communicate with humans eventually ?

[MinotaurWarrior]

6 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

 

Yet he has......

They could be cyclical in their invasions 

I'll just add to this by saying that if the Others motives essentially could be boiled down to "hate life and warmth" they'd be about on par with Balon "revolt for rape for life" Greyjoy and Gregor "is big and violent" Clegane. Some of George's character are wrapped up in intricate struggles between a variety of motivating forces, interacting complexly as the forces of history pull them in different directions. Some... aren't.

4 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Maybe the summer needs to reach the ten year mark or something for the Others to believe they will have a long enough winter for them to move south. 

During Maekars reign (221-233AC) a 6 1/2 - 7 year summer took place. A 5 year winter followed but there was no Others invasion or long night battle we know of. 

Maybe the ten year summer ending in 300AC is a prophetic number for the Others. 

Could be prophecy, could be that a ~30 year warm period, with ten years of solid summer just passes a critical threshold for the Others. Think of it from our perspective - all the years of winter where your food stores run low aren't that bad. It's the year when your food runs out, that's the problem. That 8th, 9th, or 10th year could have been devestating in a way no previous summer was. And the Others now have no reasonable expectation that the current balance of supernatural forces that determines the seasons will just hand them over a winter adequate to rebuild, because they haven't had a decent winter in so long.

 

3 hours ago, tugela said:

Unlikely. They had not been seen for thousands of years, it is exceedingly unlikely that they would be taking note of what was happening down south, which would be necessary to even know that the calendar was 300AC.

It could be that the 10-year summer is the important bit, or that it's the year 8,000 ALN according to their calendar

1 hour ago, princess_snow said:

How did Craster come to make his pact with them anyway ? How did he communicate with them ?

The Others in AGoT's prologue can talk. "The Other said something in a language that Will did not know; his voice was like the cracking of ice on a winter lake, and the words were mocking." Could be an Other walked up to him in the night and asked to adopt his sons. Could be trial and error. Could be a tradition he picked up from one of his non-incesty wives. All we know is that his older wives seemed to understand the deal completely.

[Macgregor of the North]

1 hour ago, princess_snow said:

How did Craster come to make his pact with them anyway ? How did he communicate with them ?

I always leaned more to the idea he first tried to rid himself of a son and heir who could one day grow to contest his arrangements with his daughters/wives and it stemmed from there. I'm not sure it was a planned deal with the Others from the get go, but it certainly grew to be one.

[Shireen Purratheon]

5 hours ago, tugela said:

Then why is he trying to bring down the wall? If he was really concerned about them then surely he would want to keep it up, not destroy it with the Horn of Jorumund(?).

Whatever he has been doing, he has been doing it for quite a while. He has had time to gather 100000 wildlings into an army, and do excavations of countless old burial sites looking for the horn. If the WW really were that dangerous, then all the years he has been up there doing all that would have been more than enough time for them to wipe his forces out. But that did not happen. Maybe Mance's version that he has been telling Jon and the watch is not accurate.

And why is he spending all that time down in the crypts in Winterfell? His people are already this side of the wall, he can't be looking for the horn because he doesn't need it any more (if it's purpose is for what he claims it is).

The guy is up to something, and whatever it is he is NOT telling Jon the real reason.

I mean, that's certainly not out of the question, but ostensibly his goal was to make his way to this side of the Wall. That's why the Weeper stormed the Bridge of Skulls. That's why Jarl and Styr were sent to take Castle Black so they could open up the Gate. 

I always thought he wanted the Horn of Joramun so that the Others couldn't take it to blow the Wall down themselves. Plus, it's leverage to make the Watch let his people through. 

I don't know why they haven't decimated Mance over the past twenty years. But it seems like if they were capable of it, they would have. We know for a fact they had emerged by the time Waymar, Will, and Gared ranged that time. Maybe they've been more of a looming threat beyond the Wall than a powerful army. Perhaps they've been harrying the wildlings for years, but haven't had the strength to destroy them. 

Maybe I'm way off base here, but this is my understanding. 

[Macgregor of the North]

1 hour ago, Shireen Purratheon said:

I mean, that's certainly not out of the question, but ostensibly his goal was to make his way to this side of the Wall. That's why the Weeper stormed the Bridge of Skulls. That's why Jarl and Styr were sent to take Castle Black so they could open up the Gate. 

I always thought he wanted the Horn of Joramun so that the Others couldn't take it to blow the Wall down themselves. Plus, it's leverage to make the Watch let his people through. 

 

Agree with this pretty much. I think that it is possibly mostly for leverage with the NW. He wants to ultimately lead the free folk to safety, not kill hundreds/thousands of people.

 

1 hour ago, Shireen Purratheon said:

 

I don't know why they haven't decimated Mance over the past twenty years. But it seems like if they were capable of it, they would have. We know for a fact they had emerged by the time Waymar, Will, and Gared ranged that time. Maybe they've been more of a looming threat beyond the Wall than a powerful army. Perhaps they've been harrying the wildlings for years, but haven't had the strength to destroy them. 

Maybe I'm way off base here, but this is my understanding. 

In relative agreement with this to, although the Others have had less than twenty years to decimate Mance, he was likely still a Shadow tower Ranger in around 287AC so has been massing the Wildlings for a bit less time than 20 years but the rest I'm on side with. 

I also think there's a chance that Mance pulling all the Wildlings to one area had made the Others take note as this is pulling their Wight army numbers away. Wight numbers they will need if there to strike south and be met with hostile resistance from men, which they will.

[RobbTheBoss]

There must be a threat her about that, but there are 1000 threats about Craster. In fact some things are said here. 

It always looked incredible stupid to me, that the White Walkers take human children to make them like themselves. This is not breeding, this is sharing your power with someone else with no guarantee, they would remain loyal, once they become as strong.  
Until I discovered that video and the comments below.
This theory doesn’t explain what the Others want as an end goal, just what they want from Craster and his sons, why they want to cross the Wall and why they want it now.

Note that BarTube takes a lot from the Ice dragon story, which indeed is set in another world, but I think we can still draw conclusions from it. (You may wanna read it, because I am about to quote it a lot.) For example the last chapter is called “Spring”.
So people in this world wonder whether the Ice dragon brings the cold or the cold brings the dragon. Just like you wonder whether the White Walkers bring the winter or is it the other around. (“She was never quite sure whether it was the cold that brought the ice dragon or the ice

dragon that brought the cold. That was the sort of question that often troubled her brother

Geoff”.)

The “Winter” had touched Adara (the child that is the main character) and “made her its

own.” Why, because Adara can ride the Ice dragon and use it to defeat the Fire one.
She was beautiful, people said, but in a strange,  distant sort of way”, just like GRRM describes the Others. Her father however “was a summer man, truly.”
Adara’s uncle “a dragonrider in service to the king”, so dragonriding runs in her family.

And the Ice dragon, far larger than the “regural” ones, is looking for this girl Adara. The beast is searching for her and she senses it. The sounds it makes are “crackling”, just like the sounds the others make. And of course this dragon is afraid of the warmth and comes only in the long winters.

Adara wants her dragon to “Take [her] away, take [her] to the land of always-winter.”

That does not happen, as Adara uses her dragon to defend her family of three fire dragons.
It is clear that this story happens in another world. So I am guessing, that GRRM just made a similar story with Gilly’s son.
Ever wonder why Sam and Gilly are still on the show? There is so much to show us but they show Sam and Gilly who are not important at all. Well, they are not, the child is.
Bartube compares the Ice dragon story to the ASOS 33: Samwell Tarly.
In this chapter a man is suppose to die from his wounds but he survives for days only to die from cold, as Gilly’s babe is being born. “If you think about it, khal drogo, his son, and Mary maz duur were 3 lives lost and 3 dragons were born after”, as some said in the comments. Daenerys says only a dead may pay for life, as other say that magic has its price as well. The cold seems to come for Gilly’s son right as his birth, just like with Adara.
Craster call himself a godly man.
“Cra” means “crow” in Old English and there is a village called Craster in northern England. It is close to Hardians wall.
However I don’t know Bartube says Gilly’s son is the 100^th. He only has 19 wifes, so I if he had 19 girls, I doubt he could have 100 sons.
So the theory (not mine but from a guy called Doyle Skyler and others as well) – Craster is son of Bryden Rivers (which btw also explains why he sleeps with his daughter – Targs are incestuous). The Others have waited 10 000, because they needed a dragonrider. And are now after one.
Remember that Craster is the only one who is giving sacrifices to the Others.

[Macgregor of the North]

Had another thought on this topic. 

A few things to stir the Others into a heightened level of activity. 

Waymar Royce ranges far north to their territory looking and acting very much like a Lord Commander of the NW, and also carrying a fancy Jewel hilted blade at his hip which the Others are possibly wary of when they shadow his movements north. 
They may see this as an offensive toward them from old foes the NW.

The long summer gets even longer toward being the longest summer since the last long winter/long night, and the Others anticipate the onset of the longest winter since then also and finally a chance to strike south and stake their claim for the land south of the wall. 

Old foes the NW strike North on a mass ranging with nearly full strength with undoubtably hostile intent.

The Others rely on the army of raised wights they control because their own numbers are small. When Mance begins massing all the Wildlings in one area before he himself strikes south, the Others become alarmed at the possibility their Wight army can not reach higher strength when they themselves strike south. Basically, Mance has taken potential Others numbers for their Wight army. 

These are things I could see stirring the Others levels of activity to what we see in our story. And with the long summer just finished confirmed to be the longest on records, They surely must think their long winter is due now. Time to move. 

[Shireen Purratheon]

59 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

In relative agreement with this to, although the Others have had less than twenty years to decimate Mance, he was likely still a Shadow tower Ranger in around 287AC so has been massing the Wildlings for a bit less time than 20 years but the rest I'm on side with. 

I also think there's a chance that Mance pulling all the Wildlings to one area had made the Others take note as this is pulling their Wight army numbers away. Wight numbers they will need if there to strike south and be met with hostile resistance from men, which they will.

Twenty years was a number I guess I just pulled from nowhere, I thought someone cited it upthread, but I was mistaken. 

[BricksAndSparrows]

20 hours ago, YOVMO said:

It is possible that they just want to find some good Thai food.

Well, you kinda bring up a good point. Why are they so dead set on Westeros. Why no go invade something that doesn't have a magical wall blocking the way?

[YOVMO]

26 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

Well, you kinda bring up a good point. Why are they so dead set on Westeros. Why no go invade something that doesn't have a magical wall blocking the way?

Right I mean if they hate warmth and life they already live in a pretty ideal place. Why would they need to break through a 700 foot magical wall to go to someplace they would hate. 

 

The real question to me is why no valyrian dragon lords never bothered plundering the shit out of incredibly fertile westeros.

 

is it possible that they knew to keep dragons away from the wall or there would be dire consequences? 

[tugela]

9 hours ago, Cato.the.Elder said:

Trial and error? He just leave a baby in the woods to die, and they take him. He leaves a second baby and they also take them. The Others decide to leave him alone because babies are useful to them. He realized that he is not being attacked, and thinks that it is because of the human sacrifices, so decides to keep on with them.

I would guess that he is leaving the babies as sacrifices to the gods, not specifically for the white walkers. Normally they would be taken by wolves, but I guess the WW realized that he was doing this, so starting taking the babies for their own purposes instead. Craster may not actually know what happens to the babies. If he did, you would think that his daughters would also know. But if Gilly knows, she is being very quite about it.

[tugela]

6 hours ago, Shireen Purratheon said:

I mean, that's certainly not out of the question, but ostensibly his goal was to make his way to this side of the Wall. That's why the Weeper stormed the Bridge of Skulls. That's why Jarl and Styr were sent to take Castle Black so they could open up the Gate. 

I always thought he wanted the Horn of Joramun so that the Others couldn't take it to blow the Wall down themselves. Plus, it's leverage to make the Watch let his people through. 

I don't know why they haven't decimated Mance over the past twenty years. But it seems like if they were capable of it, they would have. We know for a fact they had emerged by the time Waymar, Will, and Gared ranged that time. Maybe they've been more of a looming threat beyond the Wall than a powerful army. Perhaps they've been harrying the wildlings for years, but haven't had the strength to destroy them. 

Maybe I'm way off base here, but this is my understanding. 

Perhaps, but I suspect that the real threat is Mance himself and the white walkers are trying to stop him. That is being misunderstood by Jon and the Knights Watch because the WW are completely alien to them and consequently they fear them.

It may be that it is Martin's social commentary on the politics of fear. We kill what we don't understand because it might be a threat to us, but the real threat is a lot closer to home and wears a friendly face.

[BricksAndSparrows]

2 hours ago, YOVMO said:

The real question to me is why no valyrian dragon lords never bothered plundering the shit out of incredibly fertile westeros.

I think they were getting there... Dragonstone was an outpost of the Valyrian empire. If it wasn't for the Doom, they probably would have made a move for it.

[YOVMO]

26 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

I think they were getting there... Dragonstone was an outpost of the Valyrian empire. If it wasn't for the Doom, they probably would have made a move for it.

I suppose it is possible but the freehold stood for a very long time and the Targaryen family was a very minor Dragonlord family. There was a lot of resources in Westeros, it was easily accessible and not protected by a centralized power the way they were after Aegon I welded the kingdoms together.