So was most of the men personally raised by the Starks cavlery

[Tarellen]

So how many karstark men were in the host lord Bolton brought to the twins?

[Nyrhex]

6 minutes ago, Tarellen said:

So how many karstark men were in the host lord Bolton brought to the twins?

Out of 3,500 men, most were Boltons, so under ~1,750. If you want to get a clearer figure you have to accept that the Karstark figures are a bunch of different drafts stuck together for the book because GRRM is bad with numbers and just did not give it much thought.

Of 2,300 men at Winterfell, 300 were cavalry and were likely with Robb. The Karstark foot was also the same flank that was crushed by Gregor's attack during the Battle of the Green Fork, and Roose says that he has some Karstarks with him before the Red Wedding. This is all fine, but it's the comments in between that make no sense.

Earlier in ASOS Roose tells Jaime that he sent Harrion Karstark and what remained of the Karstark infantry to die for Duskendale. Roose also tells Jaime that there are ~1,000 Karstarks roaming the Riverlands after him. This sounds strange, as there is no way that 700 Karstark foot teleported from Duskendale to Riverrun to join the manhunt, unless they went before Roose sent the Karstarks that remained to Duskendale, which we know is wrong since Roose sent them back in ACOK before Jaime was released, and there is little reason in sending the Karstarks seperate of the main body. The fact that Roose still has Karstarks with him at all is odd, since he clearly stated that he sent them all to the trap at Duskendale. So he would need to have kept the wounded from the Green Fork, who could not march on Duskendale, or take on some of the Karstarks who gave up the search for Jaime in the short time between Roose's conversation with him, and Roose's departure of Harrenhal.

So I think that if we are to make sense of it, the 1,000 figure Roose gives is a mistake on GRRM's part. There is no way for 1,000 Karstarks to be south and east of Riverrun if there were only 300 cavalry and the foot that was not shattered on the Green Fork was sent to die for Duskendale. The number of Karstark troops with Roose could not be the remnants of the host sent to Duskendale, as he clearly says that they were being hunted down, and he was leaving for the Twins soon after that. So at most we are talking about the wounded of the Karstarks, and maybe some tag-alongs from Karstarks who made it all the way from Riverrun after Jaime had left, and were joined to the army as it left Harrenhal.

Either way we are talking about at most a couple hundred men, it is very unlikely that there were many wounded left with Roose or Karstarks who arrived from Riverrun.

 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

2 hours ago, Nyrhex said:

Out of 3,500 men, most were Boltons, so under ~1,750. If you want to get a clearer figure you have to accept that the Karstark figures are a bunch of different drafts stuck together for the book because GRRM is bad with numbers and just did not give it much thought.

 

Right, the majority were Boltons, then Karstarks (who likely contributed either the most or the second most to Robb's cause) then numbers from a number of other Houses (the new Lady Cerwyn would have been with Roose whether she liked it or not) who were part of the infantry.

[Free Northman Reborn]

3 hours ago, Nyrhex said:

Out of 3,500 men, most were Boltons, so under ~1,750. If you want to get a clearer figure you have to accept that the Karstark figures are a bunch of different drafts stuck together for the book because GRRM is bad with numbers and just did not give it much thought.

Of 2,300 men at Winterfell, 300 were cavalry and were likely with Robb. The Karstark foot was also the same flank that was crushed by Gregor's attack during the Battle of the Green Fork, and Roose says that he has some Karstarks with him before the Red Wedding. This is all fine, but it's the comments in between that make no sense.

Earlier in ASOS Roose tells Jaime that he sent Harrion Karstark and what remained of the Karstark infantry to die for Duskendale. Roose also tells Jaime that there are ~1,000 Karstarks roaming the Riverlands after him. This sounds strange, as there is no way that 700 Karstark foot teleported from Duskendale to Riverrun to join the manhunt, unless they went before Roose sent the Karstarks that remained to Duskendale, which we know is wrong since Roose sent them back in ACOK before Jaime was released, and there is little reason in sending the Karstarks seperate of the main body. The fact that Roose still has Karstarks with him at all is odd, since he clearly stated that he sent them all to the trap at Duskendale. So he would need to have kept the wounded from the Green Fork, who could not march on Duskendale, or take on some of the Karstarks who gave up the search for Jaime in the short time between Roose's conversation with him, and Roose's departure of Harrenhal.

So I think that if we are to make sense of it, the 1,000 figure Roose gives is a mistake on GRRM's part. There is no way for 1,000 Karstarks to be south and east of Riverrun if there were only 300 cavalry and the foot that was not shattered on the Green Fork was sent to die for Duskendale. The number of Karstark troops with Roose could not be the remnants of the host sent to Duskendale, as he clearly says that they were being hunted down, and he was leaving for the Twins soon after that. So at most we are talking about the wounded of the Karstarks, and maybe some tag-alongs from Karstarks who made it all the way from Riverrun after Jaime had left, and were joined to the army as it left Harrenhal.

Either way we are talking about at most a couple hundred men, it is very unlikely that there were many wounded left with Roose or Karstarks who arrived from Riverrun.

 

Well, there is another way to explain the situation quite well.

Your post above made me go and read Roose's description of his force again. It seems quite clear that with the Red Wedding on his mind, he wanted to eliminate any men who might balk at betraying the Starks in such ruthless fashion. Hence, he decided to keep only Bolton and Karstark men with him. The Norreys, Burleys and Lockes were cut down by Gregor Clegane on the south side of the Trident, along with the Manderly horse. The spearmen from the Rills, the remaining Mountain men and  the remaining infantry from the White Knife (Manderly men) were left to guard the river crossing, along with 100 Hornwood archers, the Stouts and Cerwyns, along with any freeriders and hedge knights of uncertain loyalty.

What remains, he states quite clearly, are Bolton men chiefly, and some Karstarks. Now, we know the Karstark horse is with Robb, so the 500 cavalry must be Bolton cavalry then. And if a thousand Karstarks are indeed spread across the Riverlands looking for Jaime Lannister, and if the Kartstark infantry had also suffered heavy losses at the Green Fork and at Duskendale, then the evidence seems pretty clear that the Karstarks would be lucky to make up 500 of the 3500 men with Roose.

Meaning, in a nutshell, that the Boltons number easily 3000 out of the 3500 men with Roose.

This would fit with all the evidence, giving truth to the statement that the force is chiefly Bolton men, with some Karstarks to fill it out, and giving truth to Theon's later statement in Dance, that the 4000 men returning to the North (presumably with the 600 river guards added back in), still consists mostly of Bolton men.

So in short, it seems likely that the Boltons had at least 3000 men in Robb's initial host. More, if Roose had suffered some losses along the way, as seems inevitable on a lengthy campaign.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

55 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Well, there is another way to explain the situation quite well.

Your post above made me go and read Roose's description of his force again. It seems quite clear that with the Red Wedding on his mind, he wanted to eliminate any men who might balk at betraying the Starks in such ruthless fashion. Hence, he decided to keep only Bolton and Karstark men with him.

That is ignoring what in chief means.

He states that the Boltons are the senior force with him, followed by the Karstarks (which should come as no surprise as their 2k infantry would have been the 1st, 2nd or 3rd most Northern infantry to begin with) and then others. We know that Lady Cerwyn was still with him, possibly his prisoner at this point. There would have been others apart from Bolton and Karstark men.

[Free Northman Reborn]

13 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

That is ignoring what in chief means.

He states that the Boltons are the senior force with him, followed by the Karstarks (which should come as no surprise as their 2k infantry would have been the 1st, 2nd or 3rd most Northern infantry to begin with) and then others. We know that Lady Cerwyn was still with him, possibly his prisoner at this point. There would have been others apart from Bolton and Karstark men.

Forgive me, but which Lady Cerwyn do you keep referring to as being with Roose in the Riverlands?

As for the "in chief "semantic games. That is classic gobbledook, trying to cloud the issue because it doesn't suit your narrative. In chief means exactly what I said it means in this case - the majority. This is not debatable, given that Theon later in Dance still calls the Boltons the majority of the 4000 men marching past Moat Cailin. Hence if they are the majority of the larger, 4000 strong host, then "in chief" clearly meant that they were the majority of the 3500 strong host too.

So point dismissed.

In any case, Roose goes into detail to list the men that make up the 600 at the river crossing, just as he explains in detail which Houses were caught by the Mountain on the south side of the ford. However, when he describes the 3500, he says there are Bolton and Karstark men only.

And, as Nyrhex revealed above, this is whats left of the Karstarks after subtracting the 300 cavalry with Robb, the 1000 infantry spread across the Riverlands, and the main Karstark force having been destroyed with Harrion at Duskendale, after the Karstarks had already suffered heavy losses at the Green Fork. So 500 is likely a very generous estimate for the Karstark number in Roose's final host.

 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

9 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Forgive me, but which Lady Cerwyn do you keep referring to as being with Roose in the Riverlands?

How many Lady Cerwyn's are there? For such a big fan of the North, you seem to not know a lot about them.

"I don't know." He gave a weary shake of his head. "Lord Cerwyn means to take his daughter south with us. To cook for him, he says. Theon is certain I'll find the girl in my bedroll one night. I wish … I wish Father was here …"

Lord Cerwyn was part of Roose's army. Her brother died in the North as he and Rodriks pitiful army was outclassed by a third of their number, Jonelle is now the Lady of the North and in Roose's custody (either willingly or not).

9 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

As for the "in chief "semantic games. That is classic gobbledook, trying to cloud the issue because it doesn't suit your narrative. In chief means exactly what I said it means in this case - the majority. This is not debatable, given that Theon later in Dance still calls the Boltons the majority of the 4000 men marching past Moat Cailin. Hence if they are the majority of the larger, 4000 strong host, then "in chief" clearly meant that they were the majority of the 3500 strong host too.

Who said it did not mean in the majority. I quoted what I disagreed with, that Boltons host was only Boltons and Karstarks. It was a dumb point to make, sorry. Maybe that is not what you meant, I look forward to you clarification on the point.

9 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

So point dismissed.

You dismiss a point by using evidence from the books to prove it false. You have failed to do that, but then again you seem to ignore any evidence from the books when it comes to your agenda at proving that the North is da bestest House ever. ALL HAIL THE NORTH!!!

9 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

In any case, Roose goes into detail to list the men that make up the 600 at the river crossing, just as he explains in detail which Houses were caught by the Mountain on the south side of the ford. However, when he describes the 3500, he says there are Bolton and Karstark men only.

Only? He says only? I'd like to see that quote.

 

[Free Northman Reborn]

4 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

How many Lady Cerwyn's are there? For such a big fan of the North, you seem to not know a lot about them.

"I don't know." He gave a weary shake of his head. "Lord Cerwyn means to take his daughter south with us. To cook for him, he says. Theon is certain I'll find the girl in my bedroll one night. I wish … I wish Father was here …"

Lord Cerwyn was part of Roose's army. Her brother died in the North as he and Rodriks pitiful army was outclassed by a third of their number, Jonelle is now the Lady of the North and in Roose's custody (either willingly or not).

Who said it did not mean in the majority. I quoted what I disagreed with, that Boltons host was only Boltons and Karstarks. It was a dumb point to make, sorry. Maybe that is not what you meant, I look forward to you clarification on the point.

You dismiss a point by using evidence from the books to prove it false. You have failed to do that, but then again you seem to ignore any evidence from the books when it comes to your agenda at proving that the North is da bestest House ever. ALL HAIL THE NORTH!!!

Only? He says only? I'd like to see that quote.

 

Hehe. I'd like to see the quote that Lady Cerwyn is with Roose in the Riverlands. We don't know what happened to her after Robb left Winterfell. We only hear of her again when everyone is back in the North.

That's your style in a nutshell, Littledragon. Pedantic about not believing any logical conclusion unless it is expressly stated in the books...unless it is a conclusion that supports your narrative. Then suddenly the quotes are not required.

[Free Northman Reborn]

5 hours ago, Nyrhex said:

Out of 3,500 men, most were Boltons, so under ~1,750. If you want to get a clearer figure you have to accept that the Karstark figures are a bunch of different drafts stuck together for the book because GRRM is bad with numbers and just did not give it much thought.

Of 2,300 men at Winterfell, 300 were cavalry and were likely with Robb. The Karstark foot was also the same flank that was crushed by Gregor's attack during the Battle of the Green Fork, and Roose says that he has some Karstarks with him before the Red Wedding. This is all fine, but it's the comments in between that make no sense.

Earlier in ASOS Roose tells Jaime that he sent Harrion Karstark and what remained of the Karstark infantry to die for Duskendale. Roose also tells Jaime that there are ~1,000 Karstarks roaming the Riverlands after him. This sounds strange, as there is no way that 700 Karstark foot teleported from Duskendale to Riverrun to join the manhunt, unless they went before Roose sent the Karstarks that remained to Duskendale, which we know is wrong since Roose sent them back in ACOK before Jaime was released, and there is little reason in sending the Karstarks seperate of the main body. The fact that Roose still has Karstarks with him at all is odd, since he clearly stated that he sent them all to the trap at Duskendale. So he would need to have kept the wounded from the Green Fork, who could not march on Duskendale, or take on some of the Karstarks who gave up the search for Jaime in the short time between Roose's conversation with him, and Roose's departure of Harrenhal.

So I think that if we are to make sense of it, the 1,000 figure Roose gives is a mistake on GRRM's part. There is no way for 1,000 Karstarks to be south and east of Riverrun if there were only 300 cavalry and the foot that was not shattered on the Green Fork was sent to die for Duskendale. The number of Karstark troops with Roose could not be the remnants of the host sent to Duskendale, as he clearly says that they were being hunted down, and he was leaving for the Twins soon after that. So at most we are talking about the wounded of the Karstarks, and maybe some tag-alongs from Karstarks who made it all the way from Riverrun after Jaime had left, and were joined to the army as it left Harrenhal.

Either way we are talking about at most a couple hundred men, it is very unlikely that there were many wounded left with Roose or Karstarks who arrived from Riverrun.

 

Nyrhex. Given your reading of the chapter in question, what would your guestimate of the breakdown of Roose's 3500 then be? Given that you view the Karstarks as being a couple of hundred at most?

[Nyrhex]

7 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Nyrhex. Given your reading of the chapter in question, what would your guestimate of the breakdown of Roose's 3500 then be? Given that you view the Karstarks as being a couple of hundred at most?

I had assumed it was obiouse, but I'll clarify. Given that the host marching from the Ruby Ford to the Red Wedding contained practically only Bolton and Karstark men, and given that the Karstarks were at best a few hundreds (and even that likely with the wounded of the other houses back in the baggage train), the overwhelming majority of the soldiers would be Boltons. This would place Roose's starting host at least at ~3,000 men at Winterfell. By far the largest single contributor to Robb's campaign. Roose makes only mention of his host being chiefly Boltons and having "some Karstarks". Given that he left the other loyal houses to die, his host was practically Bolton with some tag-alongs.

[Free Northman Reborn]

6 hours ago, Nyrhex said:

I had assumed it was obiouse, but I'll clarify. Given that the host marching from the Ruby Ford to the Red Wedding contained practically only Bolton and Karstark men, and given that the Karstarks were at best a few hundreds (and even that likely with the wounded of the other houses back in the baggage train), the overwhelming majority of the soldiers would be Boltons. This would place Roose's starting host at least at ~3,000 men at Winterfell. By far the largest single contributor to Robb's campaign. Roose makes only mention of his host being chiefly Boltons and having "some Karstarks". Given that he left the other loyal houses to die, his host was practically Bolton with some tag-alongs.

Thank you. I understood your post as such. And I agree with you. I just wanted it put in black and white, given that it comes from you, a poster who can not be accused in any shape or form to be "blinded by Northern fanboy-ism".

I agree. The Boltons must number 3000+ in the original army, and still easily 3000 in Roose's returning army.

[Universal Sword Donor]

20 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

How many Lady Cerwyn's are there? For such a big fan of the North, you seem to not know a lot about them.

"I don't know." He gave a weary shake of his head. "Lord Cerwyn means to take his daughter south with us. To cook for him, he says. Theon is certain I'll find the girl in my bedroll one night. I wish … I wish Father was here …"

Lord Cerwyn was part of Roose's army. Her brother died in the North as he and Rodriks pitiful army was outclassed by a third of their number, Jonelle is now the Lady of the North and in Roose's custody (either willingly or not).

Who said it did not mean in the majority. I quoted what I disagreed with, that Boltons host was only Boltons and Karstarks. It was a dumb point to make, sorry. Maybe that is not what you meant, I look forward to you clarification on the point.

You dismiss a point by using evidence from the books to prove it false. You have failed to do that, but then again you seem to ignore any evidence from the books when it comes to your agenda at proving that the North is da bestest House ever. ALL HAIL THE NORTH!!!

Only? He says only? I'd like to see that quote.

 

“His queer colorless eyes studied her face a moment before he answered. “Some five hundred horse and three thousand foot, my lady. Dreadfort men, in chief, and some from Karhold. With the loyalty of the Karstarks so doubtful now, I thought it best to keep them close. I regret there are not more.”

He doesn't specifically say "only" but I don't know how you can get literally anything else from quote, and with the detail he hits on the losses and rearguard you'd think he'd mention if they had caught up.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

13 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

 

I agree. The Boltons must number 3000+ in the original army, and still easily 3000 in Roose's returning army.

So there is 12,000 men raised at Winterfell

If the Boltons brought 3k and the Karstarks brought 2,300 then that leaves 6,700 between the other Houses.

How many men do you think the following Houses supplied to the 12k

• Stark
• Umber
• Hornwood
• Cerwyn
• Mountain Clans
• Mormont
• Glover
• Tallhart

 

 

[Free Northman Reborn]

41 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

So there is 12,000 men raised at Winterfell

If the Boltons brought 3k and the Karstarks brought 2,300 then that leaves 6,700 between the other Houses.

How many men do you think the following Houses supplied to the 12k

• Stark
• Umber
• Hornwood
• Cerwyn
• Mountain Clans
• Mormont
• Glover
• Tallhart

 

 

I think we both know that the 12000 figure has been endlessly dissected, massaged, split and resplit between lords to try and have it make sense. Even with the Boltons at only 2500 men it already doesn't provide for anything resembling a near equal split between the various Houses contributions. The Boltons at 3000 merely pushes that split to be even more lopsided.

But I think the evidence is pretty clear that the Boltons indeed provided around 3000 men to Robb. I have redone a proposed split of the 12000 as a result, and it doesn't look pretty. But that's what the evidence leans toward, so we have to abide by it.

 

[Nyrhex]

1 hour ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I think we both know that the 12000 figure has been endlessly dissected, massaged, split and resplit between lords to try and have it make sense. Even with the Boltons at only 2500 men it already doesn't provide for anything resembling a near equal split between the various Houses contributions. The Boltons at 3000 merely pushes that split to be even more lopsided.

But I think the evidence is pretty clear that the Boltons indeed provided around 3000 men to Robb. I have redone a proposed split of the 12000 as a result, and it doesn't look pretty. But that's what the evidence leans toward, so we have to abide by it.

 

That's the problem when you want Robb to have a smaller host than Tywin's in AGOT, Ramsay to have a cavalry advantage-last minute save moment in ACOK, and Roose to have the strongest host in the North (maybe aside of Manderly) in ASOS after the Red Wedding.

Then in ADWD you remember that you need to quicken the "5-year-ago" and you invent the 2-3,000 Clansmen to join Stannis, when soldiers from all over the North provided just ~2,000 men to liberate Winterfell just a few months ago in book time. Because the civil war is now, and you can't just put it on pause for Dany's dragons to grow. 

No real point in trying to work out the host composition when right at the start in AGOT we have a quarter+ of the host be cavalry, but Karstark shows up with a far worse cavalry ratio. There was never any real attempt on GRRM's part to make the numbers work.

[Free Northman Reborn]

8 hours ago, Nyrhex said:

That's the problem when you want Robb to have a smaller host than Tywin's in AGOT, Ramsay to have a cavalry advantage-last minute save moment in ACOK, and Roose to have the strongest host in the North (maybe aside of Manderly) in ASOS after the Red Wedding.

Then in ADWD you remember that you need to quicken the "5-year-ago" and you invent the 2-3,000 Clansmen to join Stannis, when soldiers from all over the North provided just ~2,000 men to liberate Winterfell just a few months ago in book time. Because the civil war is now, and you can't just put it on pause for Dany's dragons to grow. 

No real point in trying to work out the host composition when right at the start in AGOT we have a quarter+ of the host be cavalry, but Karstark shows up with a far worse cavalry ratio. There was never any real attempt on GRRM's part to make the numbers work.

I must say I agree with this. To the extent that George likely could not tell us what the breakdown of the 12000 looked like.

Similarly, I bet when you ask him for the number of troops from the Stark lands themselves he would guess it at a similar strength to the Boltons, and the Umbers more or less at the Karstark level. When that then tranalates into an impossible breakdown of the 12k number, he would likely be scratching his head in irritation.

He has said before that numbers in general are what the plot needs it to be at any given time. Pity. But true, it would seem.

[Tarellen]

On July 27, 2016 at 6:15 PM, thelittledragonthatcould said:

How many Lady Cerwyn's are there? For such a big fan of the North, you seem to not know a lot about them.

"I don't know." He gave a weary shake of his head. "Lord Cerwyn means to take his daughter south with us. To cook for him, he says. Theon is certain I'll find the girl in my bedroll one night. I wish … I wish Father was here …"

Lord Cerwyn was part of Roose's army. Her brother died in the North as he and Rodriks pitiful army was outclassed by a third of their number, Jonelle is now the Lady of the North and in Roose's custody (either willingly or not).

Who said it did not mean in the majority. I quoted what I disagreed with, that Boltons host was only Boltons and Karstarks. It was a dumb point to make, sorry. Maybe that is not what you meant, I look forward to you clarification on the point.

You dismiss a point by using evidence from the books to prove it false. You have failed to do that, but then again you seem to ignore any evidence from the books when it comes to your agenda at proving that the North is da bestest House ever. ALL HAIL THE NORTH!!!

Only? He says only? I'd like to see that quote.

 

Did the stark fandom piss in your cereal or what?

 

Also if the boltons provied around 3000 men to the host at winterfell with 1/6 being horse does that prove that the stark most likely provied mostly and most of the calvery at winterfell?

[Nyrhex]

On 2.8.2016 at 8:47 PM, Tarellen said:

Also if the boltons provied around 3000 men to the host at winterfell with 1/6 being horse does that prove that the stark most likely provied mostly and most of the calvery at winterfell?

No, it proves that GRRM is bad with numbers. 

 

Though I just remembered that we are all forgetting that Roose did not have 500 riders with him when he rode back to the North, he had 700. He had 3,500 men when he marched to the Twins for the Red Wedding, 3,000 foot and 500 horse. But he also sent 200 riders with Walton Steelshanks to escort Jaime just before, which returned to the Twins with "Arya", and are with him when he crosses the Neck again. 

This actually better explains Theon's "two in ten" comment. Eye-balling ~3,700 and making them ~4,000 is not that big a strech of the imagination, especially if many of them are wounded in the supply train. So if Roose has 700 cavalry in his initial host, even assuming that 100% of his foot are Bolton men means that he had nearly a quarter cavalry. Depending on how many Karstarks joined him, he may have actually started with the 1-3 (or 25%) ratio of cavalry to infantry.

The only outlier being that he has more cavalry left behind than others left troops in total.

 

It's one of those things you forget again and again. I can't remember how many times there were Wildling estimations for how many crossed the Wall, but everyone keeps forgetting that there are also 200 giants and 80 mammoths either still on a slow treck to Eastwatch, or already there. We simply don't ever hear of them again, only of Wun Wun. Plus no budget for the TV show, so it helps the misconception.

[Tarellen]

On August 3, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Nyrhex said:

No, it proves that GRRM is bad with numbers. 

 

Though I just remembered that we are all forgetting that Roose did not have 500 riders with him when he rode back to the North, he had 700. He had 3,500 men when he marched to the Twins for the Red Wedding, 3,000 foot and 500 horse. But he also sent 200 riders with Walton Steelshanks to escort Jaime just before, which returned to the Twins with "Arya", and are with him when he crosses the Neck again. 

This actually better explains Theon's "two in ten" comment. Eye-balling ~3,700 and making them ~4,000 is not that big a strech of the imagination, especially if many of them are wounded in the supply train. So if Roose has 700 cavalry in his initial host, even assuming that 100% of his foot are Bolton men means that he had nearly a quarter cavalry. Depending on how many Karstarks joined him, he may have actually started with the 1-3 (or 25%) ratio of cavalry to infantry.

The only outlier being that he has more cavalry left behind than others left troops in total.

 

It's one of those things you forget again and again. I can't remember how many times there were Wildling estimations for how many crossed the Wall, but everyone keeps forgetting that there are also 200 giants and 80 mammoths either still on a slow treck to Eastwatch, or already there. We simply don't ever hear of them again, only of Wun Wun. Plus no budget for the TV show, so it helps the misconception.

Wait the boltons contributed over 1/4 of the winterfell host? Did the Starks have any men from there personal lands?