Essos up to qarth ececpt bravoss vs United westeros plus bravoss

[Tarellen]

So a dynasty has succefully United westeros and broke the power of the great lords. Westeros now has medival English style centralized government. Under this dynasty there has been a century of prosperity. Then bravoss come to a young ambitious king with a offer. The sea lord wants to eradicate slavery from qarth westward permanently but needs mitltary muscle to do it. So they come to this King and say they would help him conqure all of essos from qarth westward in exchange for leaving bravoss alone and trade concessions. The king dreaming conquest accepts. Everyone important in westeros is behind there king on this and the same for the sea lord in bravoss. In reaspone all of the powers from qarth westward join forces to beat back the westerosi. All the armies are the way there like in canon. Who wins?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Both loose. Wars across the Narrow Sea can't be won. Not longterm.

[Tarellen]

20 hours ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

Both loose. Wars across the Narrow Sea can't be won. Not longterm.

Really? Why? How big is the narrow sea?

[Tarellen]

Also how good are essos armies?

[GallowsKnight]

2 hours ago, Tarellen said:

Also how good are essos armies?

Incredibly variable and little information

Braavos probably has quality professional marines. And we see Bravos are explicitly mentioned in aGoT alongside sellswords.

Sellsword vary from extremely professional like the Golden Company to trash like the Brave Companions. Some will be completely mounted like the Storm Crows and Second Sons. Others will have foot like the Company of the Cat. These are similar to westerosi forces in armor and equipment.

The Norvoshi have bearded priests. Who if Areo Hotah is a good example would probably be decent soldier. Slave soliders yes but not castrated and more like the Mamelukes or Jannissaries of the Middle East.

Qohor uses unsullied. There's a lot of debate here. A lot think the unsullied aren't as good as their reputation,

Volantis has slave tiger soldiers. Not much info. 

There's a mind numbing menagerie of dumb soldiers (chained together, stilts etc) in Slaverys bay.

The citizen solider of New Ghis might be decent enough. But they have outdated equipment and tactics.

 

[Tarellen]

On July 13, 2016 at 9:04 PM, GallowsKnight said:

Incredibly variable and little information

Braavos probably has quality professional marines. And we see Bravos are explicitly mentioned in aGoT alongside sellswords.

Sellsword vary from extremely professional like the Golden Company to trash like the Brave Companions. Some will be completely mounted like the Storm Crows and Second Sons. Others will have foot like the Company of the Cat. These are similar to westerosi forces in armor and equipment.

The Norvoshi have bearded priests. Who if Areo Hotah is a good example would probably be decent soldier. Slave soliders yes but not castrated and more like the Mamelukes or Jannissaries of the Middle East.

Qohor uses unsullied. There's a lot of debate here. A lot think the unsullied aren't as good as their reputation,

Volantis has slave tiger soldiers. Not much info. 

There's a mind numbing menagerie of dumb soldiers (chained together, stilts etc) in Slaverys bay.

The citizen solider of New Ghis might be decent enough. But they have outdated equipment and tactics.

 

Well braavos is allied with westeros so they won't be a problem. How about qarth?

[Minstral]

BBE means that due to nightmare logistics of transporting armies across the narrow sea, neither side would be able to maintain long term strategic goals or conquests. The Narrow sea is a storm wracked mess, where a single storm could scatter an entire fleet or sink it. Where either side to land an army on the other continent they would be subject to a uncertain problem of how to procure reinforcements and supply from their homes, and could easily find themselves outnumbered by the native armies. Furthermore, with both sides being as large as they are, and not particularly united at that, they would be faced with an extremely long war that does that would brew discontent at home. If a war is to be fought like this, then it would be a war of trade and support of proxies. Seizing ships or funding pretenders.

[Tarellen]

1 hour ago, Minstral said:

BBE means that due to nightmare logistics of transporting armies across the narrow sea, neither side would be able to maintain long term strategic goals or conquests. The Narrow sea is a storm wracked mess, where a single storm could scatter an entire fleet or sink it. Where either side to land an army on the other continent they would be subject to a uncertain problem of how to procure reinforcements and supply from their homes, and could easily find themselves outnumbered by the native armies. Furthermore, with both sides being as large as they are, and not particularly united at that, they would be faced with an extremely long war that does that would brew discontent at home. If a war is to be fought like this, then it would be a war of trade and support of proxies. Seizing ships or funding pretenders.

Isn't that only around the stormlands? Every where eles seems to pretty safe other then that one storm at danys birth.

[Minstral]

Naval tradition in the series has been identified that the most common method of sailing is to sail within sight of land (see Victarion's chapters). Meaning that the most common passage used would be the Broken Arm of the coast of Dorne and the stepstones. This is not a universal concept though, as I doubt a trader from Braavos heading to White Harbor would take this way. But this distinction doesn't matter, as it is still an extremely risky business in most circumstances. Even in real life medieval history naval warfare was not particularity complicated but still carried a high attrition rate.

BBE or Free Northman Reborn is better at explaining these type of things than I am, but let us use Victarion as an example of a large fleet action. The Iron Fleet, which is pretty much a collection of proper warships (not long-ships) still experienced a high attrition rate even before making sight of land. Captain Manpain lost nearly half his ships and then took to taking ships along the way to make up for his losses. Or take the time around Bob's Rebellion where the Targs actually lost their fleet due to a storm, which was not in Shipbreaker Bay.

[Tarellen]

On July 16, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Minstral said:

Naval tradition in the series has been identified that the most common method of sailing is to sail within sight of land (see Victarion's chapters). Meaning that the most common passage used would be the Broken Arm of the coast of Dorne and the stepstones. This is not a universal concept though, as I doubt a trader from Braavos heading to White Harbor would take this way. But this distinction doesn't matter, as it is still an extremely risky business in most circumstances. Even in real life medieval history naval warfare was not particularity complicated but still carried a high attrition rate.

BBE or Free Northman Reborn is better at explaining these type of things than I am, but let us use Victarion as an example of a large fleet action. The Iron Fleet, which is pretty much a collection of proper warships (not long-ships) still experienced a high attrition rate even before making sight of land. Captain Manpain lost nearly half his ships and then took to taking ships along the way to make up for his losses. Or take the time around Bob's Rebellion where the Targs actually lost their fleet due to a storm, which was not in Shipbreaker Bay.

Doesn't that include going around the coast of dorne which is pretty dangerous