Dorne vs the north

[Tarellen]

The entire northern army vs the entire dornish army. Who wins?

 

Which region is richer?

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Where are they fighting? Who are their commanders? How exactly did they march their entire military force to the field without facing logistical issues?

 

Anyway, in an improbable scenario where both kingdoms at their full strength are magically teleported to a battlefield, it would go to the North due to greater numbers.

[Tarellen]

24 minutes ago, Twenty of House Goodmen said:

Where are they fighting? Who are their commanders? How exactly did they march their entire military force to the field without facing logistical issues?

 

Anyway, in an improbable scenario where both kingdoms at their full strength are magically teleported to a battlefield, it would go to the North due to greater numbers.

Riverlands and there magically teleported with all there gear ten mile from the battlefield 

[Floki of the Ironborn]

26 minutes ago, Tarellen said:

Riverlands and there magically teleported with all there gear ten mile from the battlefield 

The North wins. 

[Tarellen]

20 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

The North wins. 

Really are numbers really in there favor? Also what region is richer?

[Nittanian]

56 minutes ago, Tarellen said:

Really are numbers really in there favor?

AFFC The Princess in the Tower

Quote

"Dorne is the least populous of the Seven Kingdoms. It pleased the Young Dragon to make all our armies larger when he wrote that book of his, so as to make his conquest that much more glorious, and it has pleased us to water the seed he planted and let our foes think us more powerful than we are, but a princess ought to know the truth. Valor is a poor substitute for numbers."

 

[marsyao]

22 hours ago, Tarellen said:

The entire northern army vs the entire dornish army. Who wins?

 

Which region is richer?

It is hard to say which side would win, the size of the North and Dorn are about equal around 20 thousand men and both are known for their fiercely fighting power, though I do think Dorn is richer than the North considering they are more close to Essos

[Canon Claude]

7 minutes ago, marsyao said:

It is hard to say which side would win, the size of the North and Dorn are about equal around 20 thousand men and both are known for their fiercely fighting power, though I do think Dorn is richer than the North considering they are more close to Essos

Both can raise larger armies than 20,000 men. But from what I've heard, the North has more men than Dorne.

Honestly, I think it could go either way. Both kingdoms were famously unable to be conquered by any outside force until they either surrendered without a fight or else made peace through negotiations.

I'd guess that it depends on who the commander is that day, because it would be a really damn close victory either way.

[marsyao]

Just now, Canon Claude said:

Both can raise larger armies than 20,000 men. But from what I've heard, the North has more men than Dorne.

Your source? Robb could only marches south with 18,000 men, and Doran Martell told his daughter could only raise about 20,000 men, of course if you levy smallfolks with no miltary training, that would boost your number but they would have little use on the battlefield

[Adam Yozza]

3 minutes ago, marsyao said:

Your source? Robb could only marches south with 18,000 men, and Doran Martell told his daughter could only raise about 20,000 men, of course if you levy smallfolks with no miltary training, that would boost your number but they would have little use on the battlefield

The North didn't raise the Crannogmen, Mountain Clansmen or many Manderly men when Robb marched. Plus Dustin kept most of her forces back due to spite. That'd probably make another 10,000 men altogether.

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

They're too far away to have a fight together.

[Raisin' Bran]

5 minutes ago, marsyao said:

Your source? Robb could only marches south with 18,000 men, and Doran Martell told his daughter could only raise about 20,000 men, of course if you levy smallfolks with no miltary training, that would boost your number but they would have little use on the battlefield

That's without tapping the mountain clans, leaving a large force of White Harbor men behind, and assembling in a hurry under Robb's banner. That probably all combined to leaving a good number of men behind.

@Adam Yozza beat me to it by about 5 seconds. And thanks for listing the crannogmen too.

[Canon Claude]

1 minute ago, Adam Yozza said:

The North didn't raise the Crannogmen, Mountain Clansmen or many Manderly men when Robb marched. Plus Dustin kept most of her forces back due to spite. That'd probably make another 10,000 men altogether.

Didn't GRRM say that the North could raise 45,000 men? Keep in mind we also have to consider the Skagosi, and the men who participated in the Siege of Winterfell and the siege of Moat Cailin.

[marsyao]

Just now, Adam Yozza said:

The North didn't raise the Crannogmen, Mountain Clansmen or many Manderly men when Robb marched. Plus Dustin kept most of her forces back due to spite. That'd probably make another 10,000 men altogether.

Manderly'S levy were included in Robb's army, yes Crannogmen, Mountain Clansmen were not included and other noble houses would also keep some men to protect their home, that is the reason why I say the largest force North can put into a field army were 20 thousand men instead of just 18,000 with Robb, besides, no country could put all of his military forces into field, you have to leave some back to protect your home

[Canon Claude]

6 minutes ago, marsyao said:

Manderly'S levy were included in Robb's army

The Manderlys held back a lot of their forces. They only sent 15000 men, albeit with both of Manderly's sons. Manderly was ordered to fortify White Harbour, so it makes sense that he would keep the majority of his men back.

And it's for the best, it turns out. In ADWD, he points out that even after all his losses in the War of the Five Kings, he has more heavy horse than any other house in the North, and commands the influence of most of the south-east of the North.

[marsyao]

10 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

The Manderlys held back a lot of their forces. They only sent 15000 men, albeit with both of Manderly's sons. Manderly was ordered to fortify White Harbour, so it makes sense that he would keep the majority of his men back.
 

I think they only sent 1500 men, give white harbor has another 1000 training men, and 1000 ( which I doubt they have so many men) from Crannogmen, 1000 for other noble house left behind, the nouth has 21,000 fighting men, I do not think Moutain clans would fight outside the North, and they are badly armed anyway, and could they provide 2000-3000 men at most? Of course, if the North decide to levy untrained, unarmed Northern smallfolks into their mary, there would be another story

[The Wolves]

I hope this scenario never happens. 

But where would they be fighting. Because Dorne would win if the fought in Dorn. And the North would win anywhere else. 

[Adam Yozza]

17 minutes ago, marsyao said:

I think they only sent 1500 men, give white harbor has another 1000 training men, and 1000 ( which I doubt they have so many men) from Crannogmen, 1000 for other noble house left behind, the nouth has 21,000 fighting men, I do not think Moutain clans would fight outside the North, and they are badly armed anyway, and could they provide 2000-3000 men at most? Of course, if the North decide to levy untrained, unarmed Northern smallfolks into their mary, there would be another story

except Robb's host was 18,000 before the 1500 Manderly's arrived. The Manderly forces brought it up to around 19,500. Manderly says in Dance that he has more heavy horse left than any other house, including the Bolton's, which means more than 1k. Given that the foot:horse ratio in the North is about 3:1, Manderly probably has about 4500 foot and 1500 cav left that he didn't send with Robb.

The Mountain Clans do fight outside the North. While the majority of them stayed behind due to timing issue's (Robb had to call his army together in haste and marched before he was at full strength), there are clansmen; like Owen Norrey, in Wo5K, and Theo Wull in the rebellion that show the clans presence in the south.

35 minutes ago, marsyao said:

Manderly'S levy were included in Robb's army, yes Crannogmen, Mountain Clansmen were not included and other noble houses would also keep some men to protect their home, that is the reason why I say the largest force North can put into a field army were 20 thousand men instead of just 18,000 with Robb, besides, no country could put all of his military forces into field, you have to leave some back to protect your home

Of course Noble House's would keep some men in reserve to protect their homes. It would be stupid not to. But Lady Dustin kept the majority of her forces back, sending only a token force with Robb. Considering that they can probably raise around 4 or 5k men, and her numbers in Robb's army were likely in between 500 and 1000 men, she has a strong force she could commit to a fight with.

You also have to consider that most house's kept their levies back because Winter was close when Robb called the banners, meaning they had to not commit their full strength so that they could pull their harvest's in. If Robb had called in the middle of a long summer, and had the liberty to take his time raising his troops, he would have had a much larger army.

40 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

Didn't GRRM say that the North could raise 45,000 men? Keep in mind we also have to consider the Skagosi, and the men who participated in the Siege of Winterfell and the siege of Moat Cailin.

He did, but I think he said that they could do that at a stretch. Plus, while they could raise 45k, I don't think they could support an army that size south of the Neck. A Northern army in the south could, I think, max out at 30k which is still half again as many as the Dornishmen.

Aside from the 600 Bolton's, the men at Winterfell were hastily conscripted levies weren't they? and only numbered 1200 besides. But yes, you can count them as well; and the 800 Umbers and 400 extra Karstark's we learn about in Dance.

[BricksAndSparrows]

I think a big part of their strength is their geography, and the inherent difficulties of invading their lands. Without going into more details about the specifics of the conflict...there is no wrong answer. That being said....Dorne.

[dornishdragon]

Well assuming that this is on the start of the first book, we have 30000 Dornishman against 45000 Northerners. Both of this people are a bit different from the rest of Westeros, the Northerners due to their religion and also race, the Dornish due to their race and culture (atleast the ones with Rhoynish ancestry like the Martells). 

Both of them are known for they ferocity on the battlefield but I think that with a decent commander the North would win. They have 1,5 more men and they are generally bigger. The Dornish have a good technic and an easy and effective weapon, the spear that generally has an edge over swords, but would be overpowered by the numbers of the Northern army.