Iron Mother Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 He was directly or indirectly responsible for: - Ned Stark's death (think it over.... leading him to Gendry is what ultimately got Ned killed) - Bran (the assassin but also driving a wedge between the Lannisters and Starks while Ned was in King's Landing, putting him in mortal danger) - Robb (in cahoots with The Crown for the Red Wedding - we see later Jaime japing on Frey for always having to clean up their messes) - Rickon (he met with Cersei to plot with Bolton to defeat Stannis ... which would give up Rickon's location when Bolton becomes Warden of North and demands fealty from anyone harboring him) - Sansa (he wants her........ and whatever prizes come with her name) - LASTLY, in final episode, he drives a wedge between Sansa and Jon about who has the proper birthright, while I am SURE he knows of ToJ What's going on with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
permaximum Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 He's targeting all of the noble houses and the system. He succeeded. However, he could end the Starks and the Boltons at the same time once and for all in the battle of the bastards and that would be the wise move on his part. His mixed feelings for Sansa forced him to do a risky move which was saving the Starks from annihilation. He'll eventually regret that but it'll be too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I don't think so, he doesn't differentiate, Baelish just knocks down every person barring his way to the iron throne, for example : he sold Stannis to Cersei and he killed Jon Arryn. Rickon wasn't his fault, it was SmallJon Umber's doing I think he's not targeting the Starks, it just that there were in position of power at that time (or their bad luck) and they are all over the place He doesn't want Sansa as prize, he genuinely wants her beside him on the Iron Throne, they are showing us that even masterminds have a human side and even someone like Baelish can dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chib Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 If LF knew of ToJ, he would have make use of this information sooner. My take is that he suspects but he has no proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Littlefinger is a vengeful, spiteful and evil little man. LF is a smart, brilliant and without remorse human/sex slave trafficer. He is a sociopath who specializes in manipulating others into doing the dirty work that he is pretty much incapable of doing himself as he is considered physically weak, which also gives him the ability to "fly under the radar" because of it. He hates House Stark because of what Brandon did to him in the duel that he, himself called for in hoping for Cat's hand in marriage. He lost badly and is scared because of it. He hated Ned as he ended up wedding and bedding her, starting a family. He hates Hoster Tully for throwing him out of Riverrun (he knocked up Lysa) for basically, seemingly ruining his second daughter by deflowering her. He is pissed that his childhood friend Edmure enthusiastically squired for Brandon in their duel. Littlefinger was always in love, obsessed with Cat but when he met Sansa, that obsession was now and ever since has been squarely placed on Sansa to which he has in the books and on the show (except the Season 5 fiasco) been the one he clearly wants but due to technicalities, here and there has not been able to obtain the way he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Mother Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 11 hours ago, permaximum said: He's targeting all of the noble houses and the system. He succeeded. However, he could end the Starks and the Boltons at the same time once and for all in the battle of the bastards and that would be the wise move on his part. His mixed feelings for Sansa forced him to do a risky move which was saving the Starks from annihilation. He'll eventually regret that but it'll be too late. Generally that's true.... and it could be that the Starks are a main focus of the show.... but doesn't it seem like LF has been really overwhelmingly stalking the Starks in even really devious ways? As in, attempting to kill any HEIR to Winterfell? And now that The Game is being elevated and Jon is gathering power in his own right............. Little Lyanna declared him King in the North and everyone agreed......... LF looked not so thrilled with that... and why? What reason does he have to be dejected by Jon's rise to power (as a bastard - to everyone else, and they don't care that he is a bastard) AND THEN going to Sansa to try to manipulate her about her birthright to Winterfell above Jon's...... planting the seed she should stand in front of Jon? I KNOW he knows about ToJ but Sansa nor others do not. Cmon he was Master of Whisperers, he knows and so does Varys. Why is he so concerned about the male heirs to Winterfell? I just know he maneuvered Rickon out into the open to get slain by Ramsay. It was through his pact with Cersei to get rid of Stannis, which led to Bolton being Warden, which flushed out Rickon. I do not think Bran will be a factor (but is possible, I can envision it) in ruling Winterfell. But LF doesn't seem to care about Arya or Bran. He assumes they are dead. The cupbearing Arya with Tywin.... when LF saw her, I don't know what he thought. Maybe he had other plans. MAYBE he's the one who sent the Hound to go get her. If she was brought to Aunt Lysa successfully, he would have both daughters right with him in the Aeyrie. He can't marry the males to get Winterfell. He does want Sansa in her own right, but he wants what comes WITH Sansa if she goes against Jon which is, he gets to rule Winterfell as her husband. But smart Sandra is good.... she now knows whatever LF suggests, do the opposite. I have become so proud of the woman she now is. It took some battering and enslavement (kidnapping?) and living with a brutal dictator but combined with LF's knowledge he has been training her all this time, she has many and more tools at her disposal to protect what is hers. go Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House_Tony_Stark Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 On 7/11/2016 at 4:33 PM, Iron Mother said: Generally that's true.... and it could be that the Starks are a main focus of the show.... but doesn't it seem like LF has been really overwhelmingly stalking the Starks in even really devious ways? As in, attempting to kill any HEIR to Winterfell? And now that The Game is being elevated and Jon is gathering power in his own right............. Little Lyanna declared him King in the North and everyone agreed......... LF looked not so thrilled with that... and why? What reason does he have to be dejected by Jon's rise to power (as a bastard - to everyone else, and they don't care that he is a bastard) AND THEN going to Sansa to try to manipulate her about her birthright to Winterfell above Jon's...... planting the seed she should stand in front of Jon? I KNOW he knows about ToJ but Sansa nor others do not. Cmon he was Master of Whisperers, he knows and so does Varys. Why is he so concerned about the male heirs to Winterfell? I just know he maneuvered Rickon out into the open to get slain by Ramsay. It was through his pact with Cersei to get rid of Stannis, which led to Bolton being Warden, which flushed out Rickon. I do not think Bran will be a factor (but is possible, I can envision it) in ruling Winterfell. But LF doesn't seem to care about Arya or Bran. He assumes they are dead. The cupbearing Arya with Tywin.... when LF saw her, I don't know what he thought. Maybe he had other plans. MAYBE he's the one who sent the Hound to go get her. If she was brought to Aunt Lysa successfully, he would have both daughters right with him in the Aeyrie. He can't marry the males to get Winterfell. He does want Sansa in her own right, but he wants what comes WITH Sansa if she goes against Jon which is, he gets to rule Winterfell as her husband. But smart Sandra is good.... she now knows whatever LF suggests, do the opposite. I have become so proud of the woman she now is. It took some battering and enslavement (kidnapping?) and living with a brutal dictator but combined with LF's knowledge he has been training her all this time, she has many and more tools at her disposal to protect what is hers. go Sandra I don't think he really has any problem with House Stark. It just so happened that a few people from house Stark got in his way. As he said his goal is to sit on the Iron Throne and Ned Stark was a major road block because he was an honorable and respected man. And him exposing the Lannisters would have probably lead to Stannis or Renly becoming King. And as someone else pointed out Sansa was just another pawn to move in his chess match. He wanted to send her to the North and start a civil war that would decimate the Northern armies giving him the the chance to ride in to (save) Sansa and then marry her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 I think Littlefinger plays a personal vengeance game every bit as much as he is playing the political game. I think ultimately, he is striving to destroy the people who "wronged" him, taking everything they held dear, and striving to fulfill his perfect fantasy. He hates Ned because he stole Catelyn from him. But I don't think he has any particular desire to destroy the remaining Starks (outside of fulfilling his fantasies of Catelyn with her daughter). I could be wrong, but outside of Ned (and Brandon), I don't think he has any particular anti-Stark motivations, except where it could possibly serve to meet another objective (for example, I don't think killing Robyn is personal, but rather just a move to further his political aims). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdJorahMormont Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 I think his whole plan came together when he managed to get Ned to come to Kings landing through the murder of Jon Arryn, he was probably scheming like crazy before this but i think this was his jump from small time to big time manipulator. he most likely always had it in his head he would end up with Catelyn when Ned was beheaded so set about from the moment he arrived on making it happen. When she wasn't a possibility he switched his attention onto her more vunerable naïve daughter and now she has also seen right through him... he seem's to be coming undone, his plans are more transparent and he is becoming slightly more desperate. But i still have the strangest feeling GRRM is gonna put LF on the throne but it will be short lived... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Mother Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 6 hours ago, House_Tony_Stark said: I don't think he really has any problem with House Stark. It just so happened that a few people from house Stark got in his way. As he said his goal is to sit on the Iron Throne and Ned Stark was a major road block because he was an honorable and respected man. And him exposing the Lannisters would have probably lead to Stannis or Renly becoming King. And as someone else pointed out Sansa was just another pawn to move in his chess match. He wanted to send her to the North and start a civil war that would decimate the Northern armies giving him the the chance to ride in to (save) Sansa and then marry her. my thesis in that was LF seems to have targeted every single Stark family member since the beginning of the show. He even corrupted the central code of The Ultron to make it turn against Tony! I didn't say it was personal, yet it may have been since that time when he fought Brandon(?) for Catelyn and get sliced up the gut for it. It might be as simple as "High House dises low borne son who is in love with high borne daughter". But as for a larger plan, it just seemed the Starks were either in the way of his plans or could help his plans, that family has been involved in LFs plots and schemes since the beginning. Do you not think so? If you do, do you think it is personal or just happenstance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AugustusTheGreat Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 He just wants to conquer as much as possible. The Starks are sort of stupid and can easily be manipulated and toyed with from his point of view, just like Lisa Arryn. He so far has indirect control of the Vale and a chunk in the riverlands, but marrying Sansa would firmly secure a base of operations for his conquest in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinifan Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 On 7/11/2016 at 5:12 AM, Chib said: If LF knew of ToJ, he would have make use of this information sooner. My take is that he suspects but he has no proof. I don't think that LF knows right now, but it is not too difficult to figure it out. He has already pieced together that something is up with Jon so I think that a few more interactions with Jon might lead LF to figure it out. A direct interaction between Littlefinger and Jon is one that I would love to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chib Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 5 hours ago, illinifan said: I don't think that LF knows right now, but it is not too difficult to figure it out. He has already pieced together that something is up with Jon so I think that a few more interactions with Jon might lead LF to figure it out. A direct interaction between Littlefinger and Jon is one that I would love to see. Well the thing is even if Jon wants to prove he's a Targ, no one would believe him, let alone LF lol. He does not look like a Targ at all. He looks like a Stark from head to toe and his manners are Stark-ish. So even if LF wants the North to discard Jon because he's a bastard Targ (or even legitimate Targ), it's not like people will believe so easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinifan Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Chib said: Well the thing is even if Jon wants to prove he's a Targ, no one would believe him, let alone LF lol. He does not look like a Targ at all. He looks like a Stark from head to toe and his manners are Stark-ish. So even if LF wants the North to discard Jon because he's a bastard Targ (or even legitimate Targ), it's not like people will believe so easily. There are people who are skeptical of the "official story." Littlefinger is one of them. Another is Stannis who pointed out that Ned would never have a son with a common tavern wench. It isn't that hard to put two and two together. Ned came back with a baby and his dead sister's body from the war. The reason why no one who had the information ever suspected is because Jon was "hidden" out in the boonies and the people who might have been able to piece it together had their own personal agendas. Ned also did a heck of a job keeping Jon away from anyone who might figure out his nephew's true identity. As for Jon's looks and mannerisms, I think he has more in common with his father than people realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, illinifan said: As for Jon's looks and mannerisms, I think he has more in common with his father than people realize. Rhaegar is alive and pops out of somewhere: "I'm prince Rhaegar and Jon is my legitimate son!" Or Varys in a meeting between Dany and Jon: "OMG is that you Rhaegar? Why do you dye your hair black? And what happened to your eyes?" oh LF suddenly remembers out of nowhere from his memories: "Jon Snow looks so much like the dragon prince..." well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinifan Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said: Rhaegar is alive and pops out of somewhere: "I'm prince Rhaegar and Jon is my legitimate son!" Or Varys in a meeting between Dany and Jon: "OMG is that you Rhaegar? Why do you dye your hair black? And what happened to your eyes?" oh LF suddenly remembers out of nowhere from his memories: "Jon Snow looks so much like the dragon prince..." well... This comes up more on the books but I think there is a reason why Ned wanted Jon hidden. So no one would start asking questions. And why no one challenged Ned's story is beyond me. Why did no one suspect that Jon might be Lyanna's son? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Up_Bxtch Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Like Baelish himself said, Chaos is a ladder and I'm pretty sure Baelish knew that the "honorable" Ned Stark would attempt to do something if he found out about Robert's kids true lineage and it would causes the Starks to become enemies of the crown, and Baelish wanted Ned and the starks out of the way so he could take the north for himself (and then probably start a Robert's Rebellion 2.0 with the North, Vale, and Riverlands behind him). I don't know if this is how it is in the show, but in the books it wasn't just Jon Arryn looking into Joffrey and the others, Stannis was also involved and fled to Dragonstone when Jon Arryn mysteriously died, fearing he'd be killed next and wanting to gather his strength to prepare for war(he was also pissed that Robert named Ned hand instead of him lol). In the books the message that Ned sends to Stannis doesn't even reach him it gets intercepted, Stannis was already looking into Robert's kids and sent out messages to all the lords on his own after Ned was killed. Baelish played Ned like a fiddle, and knew that what he was doing would lead to a Stark-Lannister war, which would causes the country to go into chaos. Chaos is where LF thrives. I won't even be surprised if he continues to try and put a wedge between Sansa and Jon in Season 7 to even better his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I think LF has some suspicion about Jon's parents but there is no obvious evidence so he can't bring that card to to table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Onion Knight Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 LF is knocking off everyone that way everyone kills one another and with nobody left, he will take the Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinifan Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 4 hours ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said: I think LF has some suspicion about Jon's parents but there is no obvious evidence so he can't bring that card to to table. He can plant doubts in people's minds. He doesn't need proof to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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