So is Jon the Lord of Winterfell as well?

[Remdawg]

It would be odd for him to the the KitN and not be a Lord Paramount but obviously the Lords of the North know Sansa is both alive and ahead of him on the Winterfell "Depth Chart".  

[Back in Black-Snow]

I think Jon told Sansa Winterfell is hers. As far as he knows (and everyone else) he is a bastard. He has no control over whether or not other Northern Lords proclaim him King. Who knows- the first episode of next season might be Jon refusing to be King in the North. I think, in the spirit of the Oath, he wishes to be true to his Night's Watch vows, which is to hold no lands, father no children and to wear no crowns. We will see. I am for sure we, as book readers and show watchers, do not have the whole story nailed down yet. There will be a few shockers to come. You can bet on that, for the books and the show.

 

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Yes I think that Sansa will be "The Stark in Winterfell" while Jon goes off doing whatever he needs to do to prepare for the WW invasion.  The good thing about this dramatically is that it keeps Jon and Sansa as each having their own power base.  

Probably Sansa will want to become involved in Southern politics (because she thinks it's necessary for them to have allies to win) and Jon won't (because he thinks its too risky and hates politics). 

Meanwhile LF tries to worm his way into Sansa's brain and convince her that Jon can't be trusted, or to advise her to do things that increase her power & influence.  

[illinifan]

1 hour ago, Travis said:

I think Jon told Sansa Winterfell is hers. As far as he knows (and everyone else) he is a bastard. He has no control over whether or not other Northern Lords proclaim him King. Who knows- the first episode of next season might be Jon refusing to be King in the North. I think, in the spirit of the Oath, he wishes to be true to his Night's Watch vows, which is to hold no lands, father no children and to wear no crowns. We will see. I am for sure we, as book readers and show watchers, do not have the whole story nailed down yet. There will be a few shockers to come. You can bet on that, for the books and the show.

 

Jon's entire arc in the story is breaking every single part of the NW vow.  He does so for the good of Westros.  His whole journey is learning that there are things more important than a rigid concept of honor.

[House_Tony_Stark]

No need to go into technicalities, it's quite obvious that Jon the King of the North is also the Lord of Winterfell which is the seat of power in the north.

The Starks lost Winterfell and the Bolton's officially claimed the castle and title Warden of the North. Sansa was then married to Ramsey Bolton and the marriage was consummated so technically she is Sansa Bolton not Sansa Stark.  If Sansa Bolton/Lannister can change her last name when it's convenient I don't see why Jon the one they love and respect can't do the same.

I don't think anyone would support Sansa's claim unless she was literally the last option and I still have a hard time seeing her keep it. Because a Karstark male which is a Stark that just lives in Karhold would be quick to try an usurp her.

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

Sansa is Lady of Winterfell which is her birthright. It is listed clearly in HBO official website for viewers: http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-6/episode-10/houses/4/house-stark

Jon is listed as King in the North, not Lord of Winterfell.

 

[House_Tony_Stark]

If anything she has a claim to the Dreadfort which actually would be a good thing for her and Jon. It's a very powerful castle that withstood two years under siege by a massive northern army under Harlon Stark.

How cool would it to be for her to be the head of the DreadStarks?

[House_Tony_Stark]

33 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

Sansa is Lady of Winterfell which is her birthright. It is listed clearly in HBO official website for viewers: http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-6/episode-10/houses/4/house-stark

Jon is listed as King in the North, not Lord of Winterfell.

 

Interesting, that's going to be one crazy mess if Braun every returns. You will have a bast who is a King..the oldest sibling who is a girl, and the youngest boy who by birthright should be the King and the Lord of Winterfell.

I don't see why it would make any sense for Sansa to even want to remain there because if she were to marry it would cause even more problems....

[Darksky]

1. Bran has no claim to the Kingship*. Robb was made King (he didn't inherit it in the first place, so why would any Stark siblings?) and his Northxit failed, he was overthrown and the North fell under the Crown again. Now the North tries Northxit again so they chose their new King.

*Liken it to Baratheons winning the IT by right of conquest. Dany really has no claim on it, despite of what she and other characters say. Her House lost the throne. The only way she can get that throne is by conquest, just like her Targaryen ancestors.

2. Bran is heir to Winterfell. But he might not even want to be its Lord and leave it to Sansa to govern the House. He doesn't have to accept the title.

[Colonel Green]

2 hours ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

I don't see why it would make any sense for Sansa to even want to remain there because if she were to marry it would cause even more problems....

She would want to remain there because it's her home.

[Lady Knows Nothing]

4 hours ago, Travis said:

I think Jon told Sansa Winterfell is hers. As far as he knows (and everyone else) he is a bastard. He has no control over whether or not other Northern Lords proclaim him King. Who knows- the first episode of next season might be Jon refusing to be King in the North. I think, in the spirit of the Oath, he wishes to be true to his Night's Watch vows, which is to hold no lands, father no children and to wear no crowns. We will see. I am for sure we, as book readers and show watchers, do not have the whole story nailed down yet. There will be a few shockers to come. You can bet on that, for the books and the show.

 

I think Jon has given up being in the Night's Watch, I may be wrong about that, but I think that is what happened in season 6. So I think Jon is as good of a candidate for Lord of Winterfell as Sansa and she did say that he was a Stark to her. I don't think it is set in stone who is Lord/Lady of Winterfell yet but in interviews Kit, Sophie, and Liam did say that it was going to cause some drama in the next season. So we'll see.

3 hours ago, illinifan said:

Jon's entire arc in the story is breaking every single part of the NW vow.  He does so for the good of Westros.  His whole journey is learning that there are things more important than a rigid concept of honor.

I totally agree with you. In the beginning Jon was all about honor and obeying the rules of the Night Watch until he met Ygritte and the world became more complex for him and it forced him to face that sometimes love comes in between what you have to do out of duty.

[illinifan]

3 hours ago, Lady Knows Nothing said:

I totally agree with you. In the beginning Jon was all about honor and obeying the rules of the Night Watch until he met Ygritte and the world became more complex for him and it forced him to face that sometimes love comes in between what you have to do out of duty.

I think that Jon's sarcastic conversation with Jaime and his conversation with his great great uncle Aemon from the first season are quite important.  In the first, Jon makes it clear that he agrees with Ned about Jaime's actions.  Of course, Jaime is being smarmy toward Jon, but it reminds us that Jon does have his foster father's strict attitudes toward honor and vows.  The Aemon scene is even more important and probably pivotal to Jon's whole arc.  Now that we know who Jon's parents are, that one is so layered.  Aemon is speaking about Rhaegar's dead children to Rhaegar's surviving son without knowing it.  Jon is speaking of his father's honor and how his father would always do the honorable thing when Jon himself is alive because Ned did not do the officially honorable thing.  He committed treason against his king and lied to his friend to keep his nephew safe.  The whole thing with Jaime and Ned is that Jaime prevented mass murder; Ned prevented the murder of his innocent nephew.  There are things more important than vows and laws. 

[Lady Knows Nothing]

4 hours ago, illinifan said:

I think that Jon's sarcastic conversation with Jaime and his conversation with his great great uncle Aemon from the first season are quite important.  In the first, Jon makes it clear that he agrees with Ned about Jaime's actions.  Of course, Jaime is being smarmy toward Jon, but it reminds us that Jon does have his foster father's strict attitudes toward honor and vows.  The Aemon scene is even more important and probably pivotal to Jon's whole arc.  Now that we know who Jon's parents are, that one is so layered.  Aemon is speaking about Rhaegar's dead children to Rhaegar's surviving son without knowing it.  Jon is speaking of his father's honor and how his father would always do the honorable thing when Jon himself is alive because Ned did not do the officially honorable thing.  He committed treason against his king and lied to his friend to keep his nephew safe.  The whole thing with Jaime and Ned is that Jaime prevented mass murder; Ned prevented the murder of his innocent nephew.  There are things more important than vows and laws. 

It also goes even deeper than that. Ned probably thought of protecting the feelings of his friend who was in love with Jon's mother. Who knows what he would have done if he found out Lyanna and Rhaegar secretly loved each other (if Jon wasn't born out of rape like the Starks assumed)? But you're right Ned's love for his sister and her son got in the way of being true to his king and his friendship with Robert.

[Iron Mother]

I think Jon wouldn't think that.  He was kind of sheepish before Lady Lyanna of Bear Island... and she flat out side "we serve the King in the North whose name is STARK" and then calls him SNOW.

Sansa seems like she is not stepping up her game as valid Stark (to rule outright) because she's female... which to HER that seems to matter (but shouldn't) I think now that they have declared Jon King in the North, it's assumed he rules in Winterfell too but Jon is Jon and probably doesn't want the title or thinks it doesn't belong to him.  Mayhaps not tho.  King  in the North and ruler of Winterfell might be perceived differently; a bastard usurper to some.

Littlefinger yet again plants the seed to Sandra about "WHO has the better claim, a child born in Winterfell, a "true Stark" or a "Bastard born in the South" (Jon). 

As I've said I think LF knows Jon's true parentage but it serves him better to let Sansa take control because he has rapport with her and hopes she will one day give in to his advances then HE (LF) would enjoy the privilege of ruling Winterfell with his quiet little wifey beside him. 

Pray for Sansa to get with the feminist movement!  One little chat with Dany would change her mind right quick.  I can't wait for them to meet.  However, I go back to Sandra's faith in the Old Gods.... and she may discharge Daenerys out-of-hand for being a foreigner and a Targaryen......... she clearly and has said "Rhaegar kidnapped and raped my aunt Lyanna".  So she has no real welcome mat waiting for Dany. 

But the females will unite I bet on it.  Once they all see the power they can have........ Cercei, for all her evil, has claimed and forced herself onto the Iron Throne!  And no one seems to be challenging her.  The dried up Queen of Thornes and the unknwon woman from Dorne have an alliance against her, they both hate her, but what do they really have?  I can't get past the idea the unknown bastard woman of Dorne will be commanding Dornish spears to go fight the Lannisters and the Crown.... and we've never really seen what High Garden has to offer in terms of fighting spirit.

IMO Sansa should be ruling correct in Winterfell.  She's on the perch of it but she's still betwixt. 

[Iron Mother]

9 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

She would want to remain there because it's her home.

yes and she keeps saying that.  She's said it to so many people.  I don't know what her deal is with not wanting to RULE Winterfell as the last remaining (known) heir true-born of Winterfell.

[illinifan]

5 hours ago, Lady Knows Nothing said:

It also goes even deeper than that. Ned probably thought of protecting the feelings of his friend who was in love with Jon's mother. Who knows what he would have done if he found out Lyanna and Rhaegar secretly loved each other (if Jon wasn't born out of rape like the Starks assumed)? But you're right Ned's love for his sister and her son got in the way of being true to his king and his friendship with Robert.

It was better for all involved that Ned lie, but it was also technically an act of treason.

[boojam]

Is there a Warden of the North now? After all Ramsay  was not sanctioned by the crown after his father died.

Or does it matter any more?

[illinifan]

No.  The Northern lords voted for independence.

[Knight of the Turnip Tree]

20 hours ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

If anything she has a claim to the Dreadfort which actually would be a good thing for her and Jon. It's a very powerful castle that withstood two years under siege by a massive northern army under Harlon Stark.

How cool would it to be for her to be the head of the DreadStarks?

Who needs a claim? House Bolton is attainted and wiped out. Jon and Sansa own the North. The Dreadfort belongs to them, period. It wouldn't surprise me if they gave it to House Mormont or another loyal house as a reward for their support.

[House_Tony_Stark]

15 minutes ago, Knight of the Turnip Tree said:

Who needs a claim? House Bolton is attainted and wiped out. Jon and Sansa own the North. The Dreadfort belongs to them, period. It wouldn't surprise me if they gave it to House Mormont or another loyal house as a reward for their support.

Actually we can't be so sure of that, before Roose and Ramsey left for Winterfell they personally appointed a Castellan that was loyal to them and left a contingent of men to defend the castle. The Dreadfort is easily one of the most defensible castles in all of Westeros the last known siege literally took two whole years before they surrendered.

The point of a claim would be that to avoid losing more northern lives Sansa could ride to the castle with a small force and call upon the honor of the men. Under the pretext that not only does she have Stark blood, she is the widow of the last Lord Bolton therefore is Lord of the Dreadfort.