Oakhearts head Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Khal Drogo is pound-for-pound the best Dothraki warrior we meet during the events of A Song of Ice and Fire, the proof being his long braid that literally hangs down to his thighs signifying that he is undefeated in combat. George clearly sets up Drogo as an anomaly among the Dothraki both in and out combat, showing he's less ignorant than his subjects and leading a gigantic Khalasar. In spite of that, Drogo is still Dothraki through and through. We have at least two instances in the books where an unarmoured warrior was horribly outmatched by an armoured foe. Jorah Mormont easily dispatches Qotho (one of Drogo's bloodriders) while Barristan Selmy defeats Khrazz (a renowned Meereenese Pit fighter) without breaking a sweat. In all fairness, Barristan is one of the greatest swordsmen to ever live and Jorah is certainly above average, but they showed what an advantage having full plate armour is against an unarmoured opponent. Drogo is better than either Qotho or Khrazz. However, I wonder if that would help him in single combat against even an average/competent Westerosi knight in full plate armour? Just as an example, we'll use Meryn Trant. I know some would take exception in using Trant as an example, but frankly there are multiple instances in the books where Trant is mocked for his middling skill level and is generally used as an example for how the Kingsguard has fallen. Sure, he isn't as bad as say Boros Blount, but 'average' seems like a pretty good way to describe Trant's ability. So, with that in mind... Khal Drogo vs. Ser Meryn Trant. The conditions are : - Trant is in full plate armour and is wielding a longsword. - Drogo is without armour and fighting with his arakh. - The fight takes place on foot in a neutral setting. Would Drogo's skill be able to help at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dariopatke Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Meryn, Drogo will likely first see knight in plate armour and he doesn't know weak spots. If he had expirience in fighting knights or at least knowing weak spots of plate amrour than I would pick Drogo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilypad Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 As much as I *heart* Drogo, I'd have to give it to Meryn. Dothraki are meant to fight from horseback and wear little in the way of armor. That would give him an advantage when it comes to speed and stamina. However, I armor provides Trant with protection (limited access points) and a sword allows him to strike while keeping distance between them. It would be an interesting fight though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon_Tor Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 15 hours ago, Oakhearts head said: Jorah Mormont easily dispatches Qotho (one of Drogo's bloodriders) Read it again. Jorah was crippled during that fight: he was cut to the bone in his thigh. In any other context, that would be a kill. He won, but not "easily". 15 hours ago, Oakhearts head said: while Barristan Selmy defeats Khrazz (a renowned Meereenese Pit fighter) without breaking a sweat. In all fairness, Barristan is one of the greatest swordsmen to ever live and Jorah is certainly above average, but they showed what an advantage having full plate armour is against an unarmoured opponent. It showed us what an advantage having full plate armor can be if your opponent doesn't know how to fight someone wearing full plate armor. Let's talk about the Viper and the Mountain, or Bronn vs Ser Egen: both men knew what they were doing, and knew how to leverage their agility and (more importantly) energy efficiency. Of course, Drogo has never fought someone in plate armor before, as far as we know. 15 hours ago, Oakhearts head said: Just as an example, we'll use Meryn Trant. I know some would take exception in using Trant as an example, but frankly there are multiple instances in the books where Trant is mocked for his middling skill level and is generally used as an example for how the Kingsguard has fallen. Sure, he isn't as bad as say Boros Blount, but 'average' seems like a pretty good way to describe Trant's ability. So, with that in mind... Khal Drogo vs. Ser Meryn Trant. The conditions are : - Trant is in full plate armour and is wielding a longsword. - Drogo is without armour and fighting with his arakh. - The fight takes place on foot in a neutral setting. Would Drogo's skill be able to help at all? A few points: you're giving Trant an infantry weapon while forcing Drogo to use his cavalry weapon. Drogo would be much better off with a dagger on foot. Even assuming Drogo has never faced a fully armored opponent before and thus couldn't rely as much on the Bronn/Oberyn advantage, I would still have to give it to Drogo. As noted, Jorah was lucky to live through his fight with Qotho, and Jorah is likely more skilled than Trant, while Drogo is certainly much more skilled than Qotho. Qotho's error IIRC was that he froze up when he discovered his weapon was stuck in Jorah's armor, a mistake I don't think Drogo would reproduce. Leave the Arakh where it is, close in to close quarters, jab a dagger through an eye-slit... dead Trant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manderly's Rat Cook Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Damon_Tor said: Read it again. Jorah was crippled during that fight: he was cut to the bone in his thigh. In any other context, that would be a kill. He won, but not "easily". It showed us what an advantage having full plate armor can be if your opponent doesn't know how to fight someone wearing full plate armor. Let's talk about the Viper and the Mountain, or Bronn vs Ser Egen: both men knew what they were doing, and knew how to leverage their agility and (more importantly) energy efficiency. Of course, Drogo has never fought someone in plate armor before, as far as we know. A few points: you're giving Trant an infantry weapon while forcing Drogo to use his cavalry weapon. Drogo would be much better off with a dagger on foot. Even assuming Drogo has never faced a fully armored opponent before and thus couldn't rely as much on the Bronn/Oberyn advantage, I would still have to give it to Drogo. As noted, Jorah was lucky to live through his fight with Qotho, and Jorah is likely more skilled than Trant, while Drogo is certainly much more skilled than Qotho. Qotho's error IIRC was that he froze up when he discovered his weapon was stuck in Jorah's armor, a mistake I don't think Drogo would reproduce. Leave the Arakh where it is, close in to close quarters, jab a dagger through an eye-slit... dead Trant. I agree with everything you said. I think Drogo would win. Another example of someone with a huge disadvantage is Syrio with his wooden sword against 3 Lannister guards and Trant in armor. Although it's more than likely that Syrio lost, it's still extraordinary how he performed. Imagine what he could've done with a real sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pirtle Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 On foot I think it would be a tough battle. If they were on horseback, Trant would be toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Trant is hardly "the average Westerosi Knight." He's a knight of the Kingsgaurd. Dothraki may not wear armor, but they war and fight all over the place. They have fought people in armor. Drogo has probably killed a few Westerosi knights. Dishonored, or just plain old hedge Knights who ended up sellswords in the free cities. Anyway, I tend to think Drogo would win Vs. Trant. But I'm open to a good argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSovereignGrave Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I'd have to say that against an average Westerosi knight, it'd be Drogo hands down. But against a skilled knight (such as, say, Barristan Selmy or Arthur Dayne) I'd have to say that Drogo would end up dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goomba Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 LOL, Trant would die in any scenario. Drogo is a fucking born and bred warrior, trant is just some noble with proper training who became kingsguard during its worst generation. A man like Drogo, a freak of nature even for dothraki standards, who has a very natural and clear talent for killing, would look at trant and see the chinks in his armor as clear as day, because thats how his mind works. In real liife, someone like trant would look at drogo and think to himself either.. 1.) I'm going to die because this guy is bigger than me 2.) This guy is just some mindless brute savage and im going to kick his ass Either of these thought processes are going to lead to automatic death anyway. Armor won't make much of a difference, when some people were just clearly born to do this shit more so than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goomba Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 and yes, obviously drogo would destroy the average knight. drogo vs selmy or jorah would be close though, guys who aren't just average knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick of House Guinness Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Drogo may struggle with having died from an infection, being resurrected as a drooling idiot, smothered and then cremated. Doesn't really matter how average Trant is, he'll still beat a pile of ash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 20 minutes ago, goomba said: Drogo is a fucking born and bred warrior, trant is just some noble with proper training who became kingsguard during its worst generation. Agreed. And DOUBLE agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Trant wins. Drogo is used to slaughtering Lamb Men and other Dothraki, Trant is not Jaime or Barristan but he's at least competent it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lychnidos Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Armour > No Armour A sword fight without armour will be a short afair, Drogo will be finished in less than a minute. You should watch some HEMA sword duels to see how fast they score hits, and when one isn't wearing armour most hits would be final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I don't really get where the Dothraki warriors get their fearsome reputations from. The only people they kill are other Dothraki and Lamb Men. Hardly that impressive. Now, Barry might have been one of the best warriors ever but he was also 40 years older than his opponent, Khrazz. And Khrazz was incredibly renowned (in the Pits, at least). Barry barely broke a sweat, and demonstrates the biggest advantage armour gives you: you can allow your opponent to strike you multiple times to no effect, while you only need to strike once to kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinotaurWarrior Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I think drogo wins, based on the dothraki skill at disarming people. Fighting a knight in plate armor should end up as a wrestling match anyway, and Drogo has the advantage there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakhearts head Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 On 7/13/2016 at 5:27 AM, Damon_Tor said: Read it again. Jorah was crippled during that fight: he was cut to the bone in his thigh. In any other context, that would be a kill. He won, but not "easily". You're right. After rereading the Daenerys chapter the fight took place in, it wasn't nearly as one-sided as I remember it being. On 7/13/2016 at 5:27 AM, Damon_Tor said: Even assuming Drogo has never faced a fully armored opponent before and thus couldn't rely as much on the Bronn/Oberyn advantage, I would still have to give it to Drogo. As noted, Jorah was lucky to live through his fight with Qotho, and Jorah is likely more skilled than Trant, while Drogo is certainly much more skilled than Qotho. Qotho's error IIRC was that he froze up when he discovered his weapon was stuck in Jorah's armor, a mistake I don't think Drogo would reproduce. Leave the Arakh where it is, close in to close quarters, jab a dagger through an eye-slit... dead Trant. Slight nitpick, but Qotho's Arakh actually got caught in Jorah's hip bone, prematurely celebrated his apparently victory, and Jorah took advantage. On 7/13/2016 at 7:33 AM, BricksAndSparrows said: Trant is hardly "the average Westerosi Knight." . He is, basically. Is Trant more skilled than your average low-born, disadvantaged kid marching off to war? Yes. Is Trant exceptional among other Knights who received similar training and upbringing? Nope. We also have this quote from Jaime: Quote Jaime had served with Meryn Trant and Boros Blount for years; adequate fighters, but Trant was sly and cruel, and Blount a bag of growly air. Ser Balon Swann was better suited to his cloak, and of course the Knight of Flowers was supposedly all a knight should be. The fifth man was a stranger to him, this Osmund Kettleblack. Jaime IX, A Storm of Swords What's weird is that you changed your viewpoint on this a few posts later when you agreed with the guy who said Trant was nothing more than your average guy who simply received good training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Meryn Trant is not up to Jaime's standard (pre-Hoat), but he is still "adequate fighter" for him. It is as if a captain of gold-winning football team tells about his defender he is "adequate". He still is likely head and shoulders above your average man at arms. Also, I would not really think Mormont was THAT good. Maybe in the Trant ballpark - so above average - but not the top, I would say. Still, the armor gave him advantage in a fight where he would be dead meat otherwise. and bloodriders are supposed to be very good. Against average knight, Drogo would break a sweat, but he would probably win. Against above average knight, the knight would break a sweat, but Drogo will lose. Against top notch knight, Drogo is just a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arry_Stark Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I don't think Trant is just average. He might be not that good for Kingsguard standards but you have to keep in mind that only 7 knights in the 7 kingdoms can join the guard and that it's a great honor for everybody. Yes, Trant was likely placed in there by Cersei but still, is there any chance that Robert was allowing an only average knight to join his kingsguard? Trant is probably even better than Jorah, I'd say. However, Quotho already almost beat Jorah, who is probably worse than Ser Meryn but Drogo is most likely also better than Quotho so I think it would be a very interesting fight and the outcome would be hard to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrium Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Well Drogo only lacks reach, protection, defensive and offensive versatility. He is fast and strong, but no one is that fast and strong to go bare-chested against the fully armored trained knight and live to tell a tale. Scratch that, maybe someone is, but undisciplined savage whose major combat experience is riding down women and children is certainly not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.