How much of the success of the show do you contribute to Benioff and Weiss

[Godbreaker]

Do you think they played a huge role in making the show amazing....or do you think it was more of Martin's work being so good

 

could anyone of made Game of Thrones, using Martin's material...or do you think there is no way this show would of been half as good without Benioff and Weiss

[LatrineDiggerBrian]

I honestly think you could pick a 1000 other people to do it, and none would come close to the job they've done. They've made so many brilliant adaptation decisions, 1000s upon 1000s of them which have contributed to the show being one of the great outliers in television history. This is a story that doesn't even come close to adapting itself. It's not only the amendments to stuff they've made from the books, but it's the stuff they've added and the stuff they've chosen to leave out. Think of how silly the show would be if D & D left in talking ravens, multi-colored hair, singing fools, Mance being glamoured, disguised Barristan, etc. etc. HBO also deserves a ton of credit for pairing these guys with the best in the business in all facets of the production. I say all of this after having been woefully disappointed in S6 after having loved the first 5 seasons.

Ultimately, I think the books need the show and the show needs the books. Sure, ASOIAF was a successful series before the show, but it would've never reached the heights of readership that it has without D & D being able to present the material visually in a way that's been very appealing to people. On the other hand, I feel like D & D have struggled with writing a coherent story after the book material ran out. They seem to have resorted to "check list writing" where they're simply filling time in between big events rather than creating compelling story and focusing on character arcs. To their credit though, it's extremely hard to expect them to replicate George's writing in ASOIAF in only a couple of months of time when George has had years to come up with ideas.

[Future Null Infinity]

I don't know if with other showrunners the show will be much better or no, but D&D played well their role, they got money and dedication, D&D are humans, if they made mistakes it's because people sometimes hit sometimes miss, nothing is perfect in this world, I love and I salute their 10 years dedication to the project, they made an excellent work with the casting, many things combined made the show amazing : the amazing story of GRRM (the biggest role in the show success), the dedication of showrunners, the hard work of the actors and a lot of money

I give them 30% reasons of success

for me, nothing can surpass "Fringe", flawless 5 seasons so maybe J.J Abrams can make GoT better! 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

I think you only have to look at virtually every single other fantasy show out there, or that has ever existed to see what a turkey we could have got. Sure the show isn't always perfect and its not really the same as the books, but I think judged on its own merits, its almost a bloody miracle that its as good as it is. 

I agree, there have been so many very good decisions when it has come to what changes to make to the books. I do think they understand their audience and have a vision for the show they want to make, if that doesn't tie into the show that some people want to see, then, oh well!

[AugustusTheGreat]

The thing that makes this show special is the actors and the sets. The major actors are flawless and the show has some of the best set designs in modern television history.

The directors are going great work, but without the serous money and starpower that has been injected into the show, it wouldnt be quite the same. 

[Back in Black-Snow]

To me, it's hard to say. I watched the first season before I had even heard of the books. I'm not much of a fantasy fan. But a read the first two books before I watched Season 2. I was hooked (books and show).

I think D and D have done great, although they have made mistakes. But if not for them making the show I would have never heard of the books.

[The hairy bear]

I think that they were very important to the show early success, although I would put them only third in importance after GRRM and casting/actors (I'm not sure in what order I would place the first two).

4 hours ago, LatrineDiggerBrian said:

I honestly think you could pick a 1000 other people to do it, and none would come close to the job they've done. They've made so many brilliant adaptation decisions, 1000s upon 1000s of them which have contributed to the show being one of the great outliers in television history. This is a story that doesn't even come close to adapting itself. It's not only the amendments to stuff they've made from the books, but it's the stuff they've added and the stuff they've chosen to leave out. Think of how silly the show would be if D & D left in talking ravens, multi-colored hair, singing fools, Mance being glamoured, disguised Barristan, etc. etc.

I fail to see that B&B have made "many brilliant adaptation decisions". Some of the ones you mention are the logical translation from book to screen and are decisions that any showrunner would have made (talking eagles, 95% of the songs and disguised Éowyn/Dernhelm were also axed in the LotR adaptation, but that's not what made the movies great).

Many of their adaptations decisions have been questionable at best, and some of the material they have come up with is subpar. Dany's plot in Qarth during season 2, Robb's romance with Talissa, Pod's sexual prowess, Dorne,... They have also changed their minds during the series, leading to dead ends and hanging threads: Tysha was introduced in S1 but then not mentioned during Tywin's murder. Mel, Beric and Thoros were included in Arya's murder list, but then removed from it without explanation.

While they have made a lot of adequate decisions, it is fair to say that they have made plenty of mistakes too. And that's no entering into the terrain of "tone" and "thematic approach", that is much harder to evaluate objectively.

 

[The Knight in Motley]

I think from the beginning we can see some of their questionable choices: Ros for example.  I'm not going to say everything they did turned out wrong, (I loved the Arya & Tywin scenes, mostly due to Charles Dance) but I think the source material and the crew get at least equal credit for the show's success, and HBO for taking the risk.

I'd give them maybe 25-33% of the success for pulling it all together.

On the other hand, I'd give them close to 80-90% of the blame for what is wrong with the show.

[SuperMario]

I give them whatever the amount of credit is merited for putting the show on the screen, but that's about it. The first season of the show was almost spot-on to the first book, so their interpretive skills of great text were good at that time, and that got the show rolling.

After that, the show basically became Skynet and was self-aware and ran itself. Really anyone could have run the show by season 4. When you can create the mess that is Dorne among other storylines and still have unwavering support, definitely the show itself is unstoppable.

[aFeastForDragons]

Its hard to know. Compared LOTR with the Hobbit and you get two completely different adaptions. 

 

They were doing well up until S4 for the most part but they just sound exhausted and bored now only wishing to speed to the ending. 

[LatrineDiggerBrian]

1 hour ago, The hairy bear said:

I think that they were very important to the show early success, although I would put them only third in importance after GRRM and casting/actors (I'm not sure in what order I would place the first two).

I fail to see that B&B have made "many brilliant adaptation decisions". Some of the ones you mention are the logical translation from book to screen and are decisions that any showrunner would have made (talking eagles, 95% of the songs and disguised Éowyn/Dernhelm were also axed in the LotR adaptation, but that's not what made the movies great).

Many of their adaptations decisions have been questionable at best, and some of the material they have come up with is subpar. Dany's plot in Qarth during season 2, Robb's romance with Talissa, Pod's sexual prowess, Dorne,... They have also changed their minds during the series, leading to dead ends and hanging threads: Tysha was introduced in S1 but then not mentioned during Tywin's murder. Mel, Beric and Thoros were included in Arya's murder list, but then removed from it without explanation.

While they have made a lot of adequate decisions, it is fair to say that they have made plenty of mistakes too. And that's no entering into the terrain of "tone" and "thematic approach", that is much harder to evaluate objectively.

 

They are the creative CEOs of the show, so they are the ones who ultimately make all of the final decisions on costumes, production design, casting, fight choreography, music, etc. etc. The show didn't just create itself out of thin air. And you say some of the decisions I mentioned were logical and that anyone would've done the same. I whole heartedly disagree. Who the heck knows what someone else might have done? Plus some of the things you mentioned worked fine on the show, even if they weren't direct translations of the book. If you're a die hard fan of the books I totally understand how you could feel the way you do. But I think we'll just have to agree to disagree here because I think what they've done has been phenomenal for the most part.

[D-Shiznit]

It's one of the most beloved and successful shows in the history of television, so a lot, and I mean a lot.

[Stannis is the man....nis]

With a few exceptions everything people love about this show comes from George, but they do deserve credit for all the stuff they did to get the show rolling and the casting has been spot on

[A spoon of knife and fork]

They deserve a huge amount of credit.  I think there's a lot of truth to what GRRM said about him writing the Novels specifically because he was tired of the limits of what he could include in TV series scripts he was writing.  So he wrote something intended to be bigger and more intricate than could possibly be filmed.  And then how ironic that someone has to take on this impossible task of trying to convincingly adapt this unfilmable series?  

I think the big reason that the story has succeeded is that the writers have put a lot of work into character.  They recognized that what makes the Books SO GOOD is that the characters are such fully realized and emotionally diverse human beings.  When the show and the books work, it is when we are able to see the conflicts in the human heart that drive us all.  This doesn't mean that every character is identical to their book counterpart, but that each character is on an emotional journey that intersects and conflicts and interweaves with all of the other characters.  

In addition to D&D's creative input you do have a MASSIVE supporting cast including the actors and directors, other writers/producers, and the artistic crew is absolutely top of the line.  

There's also Bryan Cogman to consider - first few seasons his influence was behind the scenes, but I think he most likely contributed a lot of ideas, including Lore elements that D&D being more "casual" fans of the books probably wouldn't have considered, but that we book fans are (or ought to be) grateful for.

[Dolorous Gabe]

Difficult to make a definitive judgement on that.

I mean, the show would never have existed without the books. It is definitely arguable that a big HBO production of such a great and interesting story could have been helmed by nearly anyone with some writing credentials and been a success.

That said, D&D managed to get the story to the screen and did it quite well up until the Red Wedding and deserve credit for that as it must have been a lot of work. But again, the story development work was mostly done for them.

I'm also thankful to the show for making me aware of the books, otherwise I would likely never have read them. Watching season one, I very quickly decided I might like the books.

[Lord Lannister]

For all the crap D&D get in the fan communities, the results speak for themselves. Even the people who supposedly hate every aspect of the show and go to great effort to list every painstaking detail of what they hate and why you should hate it too, keep tuning in next week and next season.

[Desert Fox]

They should get a lot of credit. But they also could never do a show this good without the source material. They didn't create the characters or the overarching story and that is a huge part of their success.

However, most showrunners wouldn't be able to do a show this good. Partially because they were pretty content with mostly doing a pretty straight adaption for 4 seasons. Typically only hacks are willing to do that. Most writers and producers want to put their own spin on it. And with books like ASIOAF it was almost absurd to even try. There is a reason why people kept pitching GRRM movies about just Jon or just Dany.

If you have the show to the top tier showrunners, you'd get a vastly different outcome. Allan Ball's True Blood was only loosely related to the source material. Vince Gilligan, David Simon, Matt Weiner, etc. wouldn't do it. Damon Lindelof would create something amazing but simply not ASIOAF (him and Tom Perrotta really changed the Leftovers (for the better IMO) for TV, characters were totally re-imagined and sometimes even inverted).

I just wish they hadn't started until GRRM could have finished the books. They need the book plots and characterization to really really nail it. I think they've done a fine job in S5 and S6, but I feel like they aren't going to be as creative down the stretch.

I also don't think GRRM could have done a TV himself.

I really wish GRRM could have gotten TWOW out right around S5, so he could be heavily involved in storylining S6-8. I understand he wants to focus on the books, but I don't think he'll ever actually finish them.

[Werthead]

A slightly weird question. The TV show would not exist at all without them, and it's probable that the books would still be sitting unadapted if they hadn't picked up on them. So in that sense 100%.

For the actual quality of the show, George's story and characters are clearly the main draw. None of D&D's own characters or storylines have really been popular, and their highest-profile changes (faffing in Season 2, the Robb/Talisa romance and Dorne) have also largely been the most unpopular with both book readers and TV-only viewers. Season 6, where the mixing up of the two is far less clear, has been a major exception to that, but of course it remains to be seen how much of that material was based on George's notes and how much was 100% their invention.

My primary issues with D&D are them not more clearly determining on an early direction for the show and an end point, which has led to abandoned story threads and big problems with characterisation (taking Show Jaime in the same direction as Book Jaime and then abruptly 180ing and reversing him at least back some of the way along that arc is bizarre). There's also the lack of a solid thematic focus. This disparaged any literary quality of the books early on and that ended any chance of the show rising above the pulp fantasy elements to make more interesting comments about human nature as the books do. The TV show instead just makes very obvious comments about power and brutality without engaging in a deeper examination of what that means. From the same studio as Deadwood, The Wire and The Sopranos, that's pretty poor going.

But the previous point that it was highly probable the show would be awful and they have managed to keep it, at worst, watchable, and at best pretty damn good.

[Facebookless Man]

Hard to tell.

The show probably didn't need to be so absolutely moronic to be successful, but the dumbing down, tits and ass, frat jokes and violent nihilist badassery surely helped a lot. More talented people might not have shat on the source material so heartily.

[lakin1013]

7 hours ago, LatrineDiggerBrian said:

They are the creative CEOs of the show, so they are the ones who ultimately make all of the final decisions on costumes, production design, casting, fight choreography, music, etc. etc. The show didn't just create itself out of thin air

This is what I thought of, when I read the OP post.  If D&D made all the decisions, then the beautiful photography, ethereal music, gorgeous filming locations, choreography, and directing can be laid at their feet.  Casting decisions were theirs to make.  Some of the more established actors like Stephan Dillane or Charles Dance, bring an air of authority to the show.  The younger unknowns get criticized, sure, but I think they should fall to their knees to be attending the Hogwarts School of Acting.  How lucky they are and we can watch them improve.  Clarke, Harrington, and Turner have all gotten better.  They almost had to under the tutelage of Dinklage or Headey or Cunningham. Sometimes, when I watch the show, I am actually struck by the sheer beauty of some of the images. That insane visual of Jon facing the charge of Ramsay's horseman was just crazy good. 

Yes, I am also struck by some of the poor writing or the lack of consistency is characterization.  

But so many of the smaller decisions build up to a classy product.