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Did Cercei Cause The Maagy Prophecy With Her Owwn Plots?


Iron Mother

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I think so in a way. But there are some things that were just beyond her control. Maybe Bran saw her actions through the Weirwood trees and used the old crone to warn her. So many of her actions resulted in the deaths of many people Bran loves. I think it is possible that Bran's curiosity and desire to change things in the past may be what set all this "Madness" into motion in the first place.

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Cersei's lust for power is what led to the destruction of her children. Despite her claims of how much she loved them, her primary use for them was to advance her own power base. She used them as tools to advance her own self, her own position and her own lust for power and they eventually broke.

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45 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Dany's lust for power is what led to the destruction of her children. Despite her claims of how much she loved them, her primary use for them was to advance her own power base. She used them as tools to advance her own self, her own position and her own lust for power and they eventually broke.

Cersei, you mean? And yes, she was acting just like her own father.

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If it were Bran who triggered everything from the beginning by his time travel, He deserves all the middle fingers to his face loll

or maybe Bran will come back to the past and prevent the mad king become mad? And the whole timeline will be changed and the story will start all over again at the end? 

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1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

Cersei, you mean? And yes, she was acting just like her own father.

Oops! And yes, Cersei(not Dany :P ) even makes the comparison herself that she's the female Tywin. Though I'd say she's not as good at controlling people and situations as Tywin was.

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24 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Oops! And yes, Cersei(not Dany :P ) even makes the comparison herself that she's the female Tywin. Though I'd say she's not as good at controlling people and situations as Tywin was.

Jamie gets a lot of his personality from tygett and gerion and kevan as said in the books. Cersei gets all of tywins cruelty and is somewhat like ellyn tarbeck. Tyrion has all of Tywin and Joanna and and genna's true personality. He has the cunning, cold, and calculating personality as well as the political and military skill of his father and the helping the weak and unloved and in pain personality from his mother and aunt. It even says all this in the books btw

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SPOILERS BELOW

The prophecy Maggy the Frog told Cersei of when she was a child was always bound to happen. There's a specific paradox name for it but I forget it. The way it works is like this: You're told as a child that when you grow up, you'll become a manipulative dictator. You'll go through life with this constantly in mind. Throughout your life, with this prophecy in mind, you're doing everything you can that will "prevent" yourself from becoming said manipulative dictator. In reality, by attempting to prevent it from happening, you're actually contributing to it, eventually fulfilling the prophecy. So when Maggy the Frog tells Cersei that all her children will die before she does, Cersei does whatever she can in order to prevent that from happening, however, by taking these "precautionary measure," she's actually making their deaths inevitable. Maggy also tells Cersei that she's going to be replaced by a much more younger and beautiful Queen. Cersei thinks this supposed younger Queen is going to Margaery, when it's actually going to be Daenerys. I hope this helped you understand the whole self-fulfilling prophecy aspect of it all.

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It's obviously impossible to answer..it's a chicken/egg scenario. It could very well be Maggy saw a selfish snotty brat, and assumed she would lead a doomed life. So she makes a couple guesses...someone's little brother will kill you...your kids are going to die. On the show, she didn't even guess the number of children correct.

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7 minutes ago, Onion Hound said:

It's obviously impossible to answer..it's a chicken/egg scenario. It could very well be Maggy saw a selfish snotty brat, and assumed she would lead a doomed life. So she makes a couple guesses...someone's little brother will kill you...your kids are going to die. On the show, she didn't even guess the number of children correct.

I highly doubt that. Almost everything maggy said to cersei has been right aside for the more beautiful queen and the little valonqar ( that's because they haven't happened yet).

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7 minutes ago, Vhaegon Targaryen I said:

I highly doubt that. Almost everything maggy said to cersei has been right aside for the more beautiful queen and the little valonqar ( that's because they haven't happened yet).

Like I said...the number of children was incorrect. The valonqar was not mentioned in the show. If Cersei has always worried about the prophecy, why has she never even acknowledged Dany? You'd think she'd send more assassin's than Robert did. She saw Rhaegar, obviously Dany would be beautiful, and was a threat to Robert at her weakest. Surely Cersei would have to question this?

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1 hour ago, Jango said:

SPOILERS BELOW

The prophecy Maggy the Frog told Cersei of when she was a child was always bound to happen. There's a specific paradox name for it but I forget it. The way it works is like this: You're told as a child that when you grow up, you'll become a manipulative dictator. You'll go through life with this constantly in mind. Throughout your life, with this prophecy in mind, you're doing everything you can that will "prevent" yourself from becoming said manipulative dictator. In reality, by attempting to prevent it from happening, you're actually contributing to it, eventually fulfilling the prophecy. So when Maggy the Frog tells Cersei that all her children will die before she does, Cersei does whatever she can in order to prevent that from happening, however, by taking these "precautionary measure," she's actually making their deaths inevitable. Maggy also tells Cersei that she's going to be replaced by a much more younger and beautiful Queen. Cersei thinks this supposed younger Queen is going to Margaery, when it's actually going to be Daenerys. I hope this helped you understand the whole self-fulfilling prophecy aspect of it all.

Cersei originally thinks its Sansa, then she realizes that little stupid Sansa would never be able to take her place or be a danger to her. Then she shifts to Margaery, and so on. I would so dearly love that it would be Sansa who replaces her, but it looks basic Dany takes all plot

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31 minutes ago, Onion Hound said:

Like I said...the number of children was incorrect. The valonqar was not mentioned in the show. If Cersei has always worried about the prophecy, why has she never even acknowledged Dany? You'd think she'd send more assassin's than Robert did. She saw Rhaegar, obviously Dany would be beautiful, and was a threat to Robert at her weakest. Surely Cersei would have to question this?

Maggy said cersei had 3 children and Robert would have 16, both in the book and the show. Maggy was right though. You need to think that cersei might interpret the prophecy wrong. Jamie might end up being the valonqar but she thinks it's tyrion. Likewise she probably thought Margery was the queen, and now she is dead so cersei thought she has averted the prophecy. In actuality dany or Sansa or jeyne westerling or even arya might be the real queen. It's probably going to be dany though. Cersei hasn't considered dany because she doesn't view her as a threat. In a small council meeting when varys says that dany has 3 dragons, cersei overlooks that and say baby dragons won't bother us. The more beautiful part isn't important, what matters is that some girl will rise above her and take everything she has. 

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IMHO Cersei has believed the prophecy right away since she married Robert (the first part of the prophecy). From that moment she was terrified by it and became more paranoid by the birth of her children. What if her overprotective nature was not motivated by her love to her children, but actually by her fear that someday her destiny to be killed will come?

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Yes, exactly. She initiated or let happen the violences which led to the death of her children. Point per point she let the predictions happen. If she had children with the king, it would have defeated the prophecy. In books she has even more opportunities. For example her friend is told she will die this evening. And Cersei kills her herself; because the girl wanted to marry Jaime.

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On 7/14/2016 at 7:47 AM, BalerionTheCat said:

Yes, exactly. She initiated or let happen the violences which led to the death of her children. Point per point she let the predictions happen. If she had children with the king, it would have defeated the prophecy. In books she has even more opportunities. For example her friend is told she will die this evening. And Cersei kills her herself; because the girl wanted to marry Jaime.

Wouldn't it be she would do anything to try to de-rail the prophecy?  The way you say, sounds like she is trying to make everything fit INTO the prophecy on purpose - consciously.  At one point I forget what it is exactly, something happens and she is elated because it meant the prophecy now could not happen..... she says the old lady must be now "screaming down in hell" because the prophecy was averted.

She killed Malara????  dang I missed that one.  I only remember it saying she fell in the well just like the prophecy said.

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3 hours ago, Iron Mother said:

She killed Malara????  dang I missed that one.  I only remember it saying she fell in the well just like the prophecy said.

She didn't say it explicitly. But Cersei was there when Melara died. It was before Cersei inquired what a valonqar was:

She could still hear Melara Hetherspoon insisting that if they never spoke about the prophecies, they would not come true. She was not so silent in the well, though. She screamed and shouted. "Tyrion is the valonqar," she said. "Do you use that word in Myr? It’s High Valyrian, it means little brother." She had asked Septa Saranella about the word, after Melara drowned.

Cersei wants to forestall the prophecy. But only by her usual way:

She promised me I should be queen, but said another queen would come ..." Younger and more beautiful, she said. "...another queen, who would take from me all I loved."
"And you wish to forestall this prophecy?"
More than anything, she thought. "Can it be forestalled?"
"Oh, yes. Never doubt that."
"How?"
"I think Your Grace knows how."
She did. I knew it all along, she thought. Even in the tent. "If she tries I will have my brother kill her."

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Cersie is no victim and by incest fucking her own brother and deliberately placing their bastards on the Iron Throne has caused their deaths as a result. She and Jaime seem to think that no one should care or complain that they are their kids and bend the knee to them anyway.

Who is ANYONE to judge the Lion?

Lannister arrogance is their flaw and their downfall.

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