as Ned the worst ever Lord of Winterfell ?

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

Having been doing some homework and reading up on the history of Westero's, If i have read right the Starks were one of the first to settle in Westero's and one of the first Great Houses. And all throughout history was one of, if not the only house never to lose it's hold over their Region... when all other great houses were going extinct or losing theirs.

It's quite impressive through all the changes the Starks of Winterfell remained a constant.... until Ned.

 

[Adam Yozza]

8 minutes ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

Having been doing some homework and reading up on the history of Westero's, If i have read right the Starks were one of the first to settle in Westero's and one of the first Great Houses. And all throughout history was one of, if not the only house never to lose it's hold over their Region... when all other great houses were going extinct or losing theirs.

It's quite impressive through all the changes the Starks of Winterfell remained a constant.... until Ned.

 

Until Robb, if this is the logic you're following. The Stark's remained strong and in power even under Ned's rule. I don't really get what you're trying to say; the Starks were one of the most powerful houses at the start of the first book.

[Vhailin]

Sansa Stark is the sole ORCHESTRATOR of all the misfortune that has befallen House Stark. If she had obeyed her father's instructions and complyingly returned to Winterfell with Ned and Ayra, House Lannister would have been a forgotten history.

The old gods wept the day Sansa was born. 

[dariopatke]

10 minutes ago, Vhailin said:

Sansa Stark is the sole ORCHESTRATOR of all the misfortune that has befallen House Stark. If she had obeyed her father's instructions and complyingly returned to Winterfell with Ned and Ayra, House Lannister would have been a forgotten history.

The old gods wept the day Sansa was born. 

True.

No, he was at least good Lord. There was a quote from Liddle guy about peace and safety that was present when Ned ruled. Other lords liked and respected him (apart from lady Dustin) and smallfolk, too.

[DigUpHerBones]

I understand the show is taboo in this section, but I LOVED how the theatre company portrayed the Starks as hillbillies and Ned as King Redneck of Westeros that was too stupid to survive in that world.

Not that I am a Stark hater, but I had always wondered how the rest of the world viewed the High Houses of Westeros...

[Anthony Pirtle]

No. Eddard was highly regarded as a lord and never lost the North. All he lost was his head, and he's certainly not the first Lord of Winterfell to be put to death.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

43 minutes ago, DigUpHerBones said:

I understand the show is taboo in this section,

It's not "taboo", it's off topic, and you clearly don't understand.

[Dragondengar]

Yes, and No. 

Ned was a good Father, and a Good Lord by southern standards, but he placed his own personal honor above the practicalities that serve as a cornerstone for the Lives of Northmen and the Rule of the Starks. His Code of Honor is a gift of his upbringing as a ward of Jon Arryn of the Vale. This deep sense of honor I feel brought about much of the misfortune experienced by the Stark family.

Ned raised his children teaching them to live to the standard of personal honor and that all people should, and would be expected to do so. In Sansa, that manifested as a glorious life of a court Lady who was able to marry a prince and maybe one day would become queen. In Rob, that manifested twice. First, he broke his oath to marry a Frey when he married Jeyne Westerling to preserve her honor. Secondly, he took the head of one of the most powerful leige lords because that lord had avenged himself on Rob's Prisoners. 

Northern Practicality would state that people will do what they want to do, when they want to do it. For Sansa, Summer dreams of the south have no place in a world where Winter is coming. Northern Practicality would have Sansa doubting the intensions of everyone from the start. And For Rob, practicality would have had him marry the Frey and punish the Karstark not for affecting His honor, but for the offense of damaging his prisoners, destroying his property. Not only would this preserve the Frey alliance, but the Karstarks would never have abandoned his forces. Northern Practicality preserves the image of strength whereas persons who let personal honor guide their every decision become submissive to it, and it weakens their image of strength. 

Ned also estranged many of his bannermen with his failure to bring home the remains of the 7 lords who went with him to the Tower of Joy. Further, I can't see that many would approve of the addition of a Sept of the Seven to Winterfell, or that the heir to the North was being raised to worship the Gods of the Seven over the Old Gods of the First Men, The Gods of the North. 

The Kings of Winter forged the North into a single Kingdom through Force of Strength and Kept it united under their banner through the continued Illusion and Threat of that strength. The Wull who stated - a maiden could walk the Kingsroad in her name-day gown when a Stark sat the throne in Winterfell - wasn't a testiment to the laws of the realm, or that people were better people when led by starks, but that the Threat of a Stark lord punishment was enough to keep every lord in line. Even Jorah Mormont fled Westeros when news of selling men into Slavery reached Lord Stark. 

I would say that Ned was a good Man, and a good Father, and was a good Lord for a time of peace. 

However, he lacked the Northern Practicailty that is necessary of any Lord in the realms of the North. He Failed to prepare his heirs for the trying times to come. He Utterly destroyed the Image of Strength of House Stark. 

[Boarsbane]

2 hours ago, Vhailin said:

Sansa Stark is the sole ORCHESTRATOR of all the misfortune that has befallen House Stark. If she had obeyed her father's instructions and complyingly returned to Winterfell with Ned and Ayra, House Lannister would have been a forgotten history.

The old gods wept the day Sansa was born. 

Sans took Tyrion hostage, married Jeyne Westerling, sent Theon back to the Iron Isles, gave Roose command of most the Stark forces, and so on?

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

 

9 minutes ago, Boarsbane said:

Sans took Tyrion hostage, married Jeyne Westerling, sent Theon back to the Iron Isles, gave Roose command of most the Stark forces, and so on?

Only after she pushed bran off a tower and send an assassin to kill him. 

[Aryya Stark]

2 hours ago, Vhailin said:

Sansa Stark is the sole ORCHESTRATOR of all the misfortune that has befallen House Stark. If she had obeyed her father's instructions and complyingly returned to Winterfell with Ned and Ayra, House Lannister would have been a forgotten history.

The old gods wept the day Sansa was born. 

I believe none of the Starks understood the Game or cared for it to be honest. Now that we have a better understanding of the north we realize that to the northerners, winter is the thing to prepare for and worry about not these silly games the Southrons play. It's a question of priorities I guess. Anyhow, I think they all screwed up, but I think out of them all, Catelyn screwed up the most. 

Sansa was a silly child, what excuse did Cat have? An adult and from the south. She should have known better. 

[Adam Yozza]

32 minutes ago, Dragondengar said:

Yes, and No. 

Ned was a good Father, and a Good Lord by southern standards, but he placed his own personal honor above the practicalities that serve as a cornerstone for the Lives of Northmen and the Rule of the Starks. His Code of Honor is a gift of his upbringing as a ward of Jon Arryn of the Vale. This deep sense of honor I feel brought about much of the misfortune experienced by the Stark family.

Ned raised his children teaching them to live to the standard of personal honor and that all people should, and would be expected to do so. In Sansa, that manifested as a glorious life of a court Lady who was able to marry a prince and maybe one day would become queen. In Rob, that manifested twice. First, he broke his oath to marry a Frey when he married Jeyne Westerling to preserve her honor. Secondly, he took the head of one of the most powerful leige lords because that lord had avenged himself on Rob's Prisoners. 

Northern Practicality would state that people will do what they want to do, when they want to do it. For Sansa, Summer dreams of the south have no place in a world where Winter is coming. Northern Practicality would have Sansa doubting the intensions of everyone from the start. And For Rob, practicality would have had him marry the Frey and punish the Karstark not for affecting His honor, but for the offense of damaging his prisoners, destroying his property. Not only would this preserve the Frey alliance, but the Karstarks would never have abandoned his forces. Northern Practicality preserves the image of strength whereas persons who let personal honor guide their every decision become submissive to it, and it weakens their image of strength. 

Ned also estranged many of his bannermen with his failure to bring home the remains of the 7 lords who went with him to the Tower of Joy. Further, I can't see that many would approve of the addition of a Sept of the Seven to Winterfell, or that the heir to the North was being raised to worship the Gods of the Seven over the Old Gods of the First Men, The Gods of the North. 

The Kings of Winter forged the North into a single Kingdom through Force of Strength and Kept it united under their banner through the continued Illusion and Threat of that strength. The Wull who stated - a maiden could walk the Kingsroad in her name-day gown when a Stark sat the throne in Winterfell - wasn't a testiment to the laws of the realm, or that people were better people when led by starks, but that the Threat of a Stark lord punishment was enough to keep every lord in line. Even Jorah Mormont fled Westeros when news of selling men into Slavery reached Lord Stark. 

I would say that Ned was a good Man, and a good Father, and was a good Lord for a time of peace. 

However, he lacked the Northern Practicailty that is necessary of any Lord in the realms of the North. He Failed to prepare his heirs for the trying times to come. He Utterly destroyed the Image of Strength of House Stark. 

Uh, no.

Ned alienated his bannermen? Aside from Lady Dustin, who else was offended at his failure to bring the bones of his companions back. The Wull's never made any trouble out of it, nor did the Ryswell's, Cassel's or the Glover's. The Lords of the North were fiercely loyal to Ned, and he was widely regarded as a superb lord by his vassals. 

The Karstark's abandoned Robb for executing their Lord. They didn't care about the why of the situation. As for blaming Ned honour for Robb's mistakes.....just what? If you want to say that Ned's code of honour was the reason Robb married Jeyne, then you could go further back and say that Rickard was a bad lord for sending Ned to the Vale in the first place.

Ned built a small sept for his southron wife. I don't see many people kicking up a fuss about that, especially when the Manderly's and Tallharts also worship the seven. Further more, neither Ned nor Robb worshipped the Seven. Almost all of Ned's children were raised to worship the Old Gods.

And you're blaming Ned for the naivety of an eleven year old girl? One who was raised by her mother as well as her father. I think her idealism came more from Cat than Ned. and as for, Sansa doubting everyone's intentions straight of the bat, well, I'm sorry to tell you that even Littlefinger and Varys weren't ultimate spymasters at that age, especially not if they'd been raised in a good environment and with a loving family.

"Northern practicality would state that people do what they want, when they want to do it"? Really; so you then why was Lord First Night and flaying outlawed in the North? Clearly, Northerners can't just do whatever the hell they want. I think you may be getting them confused with the Wildlings.

He didn't prepare Robb for trying times? He was teaching him how to rule when he was dragged south. Robb was a decent Lord and knew what to do, as we've seen before he calls the banner's, and did you think he was born knowing military strategy? He was tutored in it! He adopted his father's idea's of speaking to a different Lord on each day of the march, which earned him a lot of respect.

Frankly, most of your points don't make a lot of sense.

[Buried Treasure]

Until all the Starks are dead and several decades have passed without anybody restoring Winterfell and using some tenous claim to continue the Stark name then I don't think we can be certain the Starks are in a worse situation than they have ever before been.

That is to say, with 8000 years of history I'd be shocked if the Starks  (i.e. the current ruling lords) had always won. We only know that Winterfell and the Stark name have always survived,  but after a couple of millenia the name itself would have had political currency and non-Starks might have taken it after defeating the Starks. For instance, in an alternative version of the current story if all the Starks but Sansa had truly been killed, and Tyrion had become lord of Winterfell and forced a child upon her then we would consider the Starks to have been defeated but the name would probably survive through their children.

[Adam Yozza]

2 hours ago, Vhailin said:

Sansa Stark is the sole ORCHESTRATOR of all the misfortune that has befallen House Stark. If she had obeyed her father's instructions and complyingly returned to Winterfell with Ned and Ayra, House Lannister would have been a forgotten history.

The old gods wept the day Sansa was born. 

I get what you mean, that if Sansa hadn't told the Queen about her father's plan, Ned's arrest wouldn't have happened. But I wouldn't call her the orchestrator. Catelyn abducted Tyrion because she believed that he had sent an assassin after her son; in response Tywin set Gregor Clegane loose on the Riverlands.

[Kal-L]

15 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said:

If you want to say that Ned's code of honour was the reason Robb married Jeyne, then you could go further back and say that Rickard was a bad lord for sending Ned to the Vale in the first place.

Why ? Ned wasn't even supposed to rule the North in the first place.

[Count Balerion]

I'm not sure GRRM really thought the history through, especially all this business of the Starks etc. surviving as houses for thousands of years. Or maybe he intends those millennia (most of which preceded written records, yes?) to be legendary. It seems at least highly implausible that any of the great houses really existed continuously for that length of time. 

[Drekinn]

Close but not quite. The worst would be Robb. Boy kings are a bad omen.

[Aryya Stark]

1 hour ago, Buried Treasure said:

Until all the Starks are dead and several decades have passed without anybody restoring Winterfell and using some tenous claim to continue the Stark name then I don't think we can be certain the Starks are in a worse situation than they have ever before been.

That is to say, with 8000 years of history I'd be shocked if the Starks  (i.e. the current ruling lords) had always won. We only know that Winterfell and the Stark name have always survived,  but after a couple of millenia the name itself would have had political currency and non-Starks might have taken it after defeating the Starks. For instance, in an alternative version of the current story if all the Starks but Sansa had truly been killed, and Tyrion had become lord of Winterfell and forced a child upon her then we would consider the Starks to have been defeated but the name would probably survive through their children.

 

1 hour ago, Count Balerion said:

I'm not sure GRRM really thought the history through, especially all this business of the Starks etc. surviving as houses for thousands of years. Or maybe he intends those millennia (most of which preceded written records, yes?) to be legendary. It seems at least highly implausible that any of the great houses really existed continuously for that length of time. 

Winterfell was burnt several times in the past. 

This is from a wiki of Ice & fire:

Quote

During the wars between the Kings of Winter from House Stark and the Red Kings from House Bolton, Winterfell was burned by Kings Royce II and Royce IV Bolton of the Dreadfort prior to the Andal invasion of Westeros.

So it's not like this is the first time they had a rough time. 

[Masha]

2 hours ago, Adam Yozza said:

I get what you mean, that if Sansa hadn't told the Queen about her father's plan, Ned's arrest wouldn't have happened. But I wouldn't call her the orchestrator. Catelyn abducted Tyrion because she believed that he had sent an assassin after her son; in response Tywin set Gregor Clegane loose on the Riverlands.

By the time Sansa told the Queen about her father's plan, Ned already revealed his entire hand to the same Queen. The battle was lost the moment Ned opened his big honorable mouth in attempt to give Cersei "the chance".

You are wrong about Ned/Robb being the worst Stark Kings around. There are stories about Stark kings who got themselves killed, who allowed WF to be burned (I mean the whole place was burned and raised many times throughout centuries, and Boltons were the ones doing it at least several times too). The point is Starks always came back, win over Winterfell and the North , and get their revenge.

Its just that North was mostly at peace for the last couple of hundred years as North joined the 7 Kingdoms and stayed out of most major Targaryen-related wars.

One way or another, Stark children and/or Jon will do the same too - get Wnterfell back, get revenge, and restore Stark rule. After all, didn't GRRM planned to call the last book "the Time for Wolves" but then changed it because he felt it was too spoilery of a title? Its definitely looks like Starks are getting theirs back.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

2 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

I'm not sure GRRM really thought the history through, especially all this business of the Starks etc. surviving as houses for thousands of years. Or maybe he intends those millennia (most of which preceded written records, yes?) to be legendary. It seems at least highly implausible that any of the great houses really existed continuously for that length of time. 

Who wants plausible, when one could have magnificent, impossible, larger than life? You start examining it closely enough, and the story will fall apart under the scrutiny. You couldn't have Winterfell, you couldn't have the Night's Watch, you couldn't have Gregor Clegane, and many other older than time, larger than life elements.

The trick is, therefore, not to examine too closely. Sit back and be entertained.