BryndenBFish

The Ultimate Winds of Winter Resource

285 posts in this topic

On 04/12/2016 at 3:48 PM, Greywater-Watch said:
  • Long answer on how GRRM would have liked Gandalf in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings stay dead, as he thinks that would have been a good situation leaving all Gandalf's company alone without the wizard, who in fact had all the necessary knowledge to proceed, This makes me personally re-adjust my wager on a re-surrection of Jon Snow.

Thanks for the excerpts!

On the specific point above I disagree: there is no parallel between Gandalf and Jon Snow, not in terms of the characters' knowledge; not in terms of their role and importance in the plot. (If anything, Jon Snow is better compared to Frodo, it terms of a character with the least information being thrust into a pivotal position which both forces him to make monumental decisions, and bear the burden of their consequences.)

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3 hours ago, Wayward Sand Star said:

Thanks for the excerpts!

On the specific point above I disagree: there is no parallel between Gandalf and Jon Snow, not in terms of the characters' knowledge; not in terms of their role and importance in the plot. (If anything, Jon Snow is better compared to Frodo, it terms of a character with the least information being thrust into a pivotal position which both forces him to make monumental decisions, and bear the burden of their consequences.)

The parallel I have in mind is the reader thinking: Oh my god, how could the story go on without this guy?

It is not the level of wisdom or knowledge I try to parallel, it is that so many strings seem to depend on the survival of one character. Look, how much depends (or seems to) on Jon: The new strategy of the Night Watch, him possibly being a Targaryen, the third Dragon rider, the father of Azor Azhai, the Lord of Winterfell, the one able to stop the Others, the future husband of Daenerys, etc.

I can see GRRM chuckle on how many theories would fall to pieces if Jon Snow just stayed dead.

Edited by Greywater-Watch

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Well, a lot of theories would die, but lets say Jon died but Stannis lived, as an example we are nowhere near his own vision of his demise; Stannis and Jon seem to be of a similar mind regarding how things should work up there. So...I don't know, plus the Night's Watch may just outright be changed by him even being temporarily dead.

It's funny, every time I go on vacation, when I come back I expect to see a book announcement, even though 7 days isn't what you'd call a long time heh

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On 04.12.2016 at 2:48 PM, Greywater-Watch said:

On his writing speed: GRRM says that in all his other books, once he had come to see the end (the "finishing line", getting over the top of the hill) he would normally speed up in writing. In ASOIAF he still was not at that point. 

1

About that, some are speculating that GRRM might go for 8 books after all.

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On 4/12/2016 at 3:48 PM, Greywater-Watch said:

no visit to Asshai planned, but some more information given to us on Asshai through Melisandre

That could mean:

  1. Melisandre will be a POV character or
  2. Bran/Davos/Asha/Jon will have chapters and go to the Wall or
  3. Theon goes to the Wall.

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9 hours ago, Endymion I Targaryen said:

That could mean:

  1. Melisandre will be a POV character or
  2. Bran/Davos/Asha/Jon will have chapters and go to the Wall or
  3. Theon goes to the Wall.

it's likely to be the first option. until now the only glimpses into Mel's past were in her thoughts, not through the POV of others.

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On 12/10/2016 at 0:30 AM, Túrin the Turambar said:

it's likely to be the first option. until now the only glimpses into Mel's past were in her thoughts, not through the POV of others.

I would love Mel as a POV character but her one chapter was like a homage to the only Moiraine chapter written by Jordan. No answers (other than she is a true believer), and more questions. I now believe she is a better preserved version of Beric, and so is Moqorro, and maybe every higher level Red priest (note Thoros was a rookie).

She is a bit of a nutter but Mel is one of my favourite characters.

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George just said on his blog that he thinks he can get Winds out in 2017:  Link

Quote

You really think statements like that would make a difference? Ah, you sweet summer child. I have years of experience with this that tells me otherwise.

But okay, I will try it your way.

Not done yet, but I've made progress. But not as much as I hoped a year ago, when I thought to be done by now.

I think it will be out this year. (But hey, I thought the same thing last year).

So he definitely hedges the statement...but any mention of Winds in 2017 is better than nothing at this point.  

Edited by Ser Wun Wun

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Well, at least he isn't having a major bout of writer's block (comparable to the Meereenese Knot).

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32 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Well, at least he isn't having a major bout of writer's block (comparable to the Meereenese Knot).

That he's talking about anyway haha

i think he learned his lesson with adwd in talking about his actual progress or lack there of.

Talking about 'done' and talking about 'out' are different though.

He is using the term 'out'( which would to my mind at least, insinuate he's moving closer to being done with the actual manuscript which is something to hope for.

To be talking about 'Out' it has to be close to being a first draft I think.

Given a turn around of 3-6 months for editing, printing etc he may be looking to hand in the book in the first half of the year with the back half set aside for back of house and release.

Buy who can say. 

 

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I think it's safe to say he's having a LOT of trouble with the writing, even if he doesn't have some pithy name for the area(s) giving him problems.

To not have completed 1300-1400 pages after 5 years of writing (Winds should be a 1500 page book, and he had 100+ pages set aside for it after Dance)...that means his writing pace has been every bit as bad as it was with Dance.   

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1 hour ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

I think it's safe to say he's having a LOT of trouble with the writing, even if he doesn't have some pithy name for the area(s) giving him problems.

To not have completed 1300-1400 pages after 5 years of writing (Winds should be a 1500 page book, and he had 100+ pages set aside for it after Dance)...that means his writing pace has been every bit as bad as it was with Dance.   

In some ways, it means it has been at lot worse. You have to take into account that Martin's page count from 2005 to 2008 was actually negative.

If Martin had maintained the writing speed he had from 2008 to 2011, then The Winds of Winter would have been out by mid-2016 at the absolute latest. 

Alas, it seems that Martin cannot even write a chapter a month anymore. 

Edited by Faint

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1 minute ago, Faint said:

In some ways, it means it has been at lot worse. You have to take into account that Martin's page count from 2005 to 2008 was actually negative.

If Martin had maintained the writing speed he had from 2008 to 2011, then The Winds of Winter would have been out by mid-2016 at the absolute latest. 

Alas, it seems that Martin cannot even write a chapter a month anymore. 

I agree; although to be fair he did not have the show (nor the fame that comes with it) prior to ADWD. The show seems to have taken a huge chunk of his time.

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5 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Well, at least he isn't having a major bout of writer's block (comparable to the Meereenese Knot).

Hey, speak for yourself, I miss his bullshit excuses.

I was kind of hoping we would get the Winterfell Quandry or the Volantis Clusterfuck. 

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2 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

I agree; although to be fair he did not have the show (nor the fame that comes with it) prior to ADWD. The show seems to have taken a huge chunk of his time.

Honestly, I don't buy that one either. 

Look at the evidence post-show, with his full concentration on the book: 

He thought he was 3 or 4 months from finishing in May 2015 . . .

Then he thought he was 3 or 4 months from finishing in September 2015 . . .

Then he thought he was 3 or 4 months from finishing in January 2016 . . . 

Now, here we are, January 2017, 20 months from when this first started, and what is he saying?

That he thinks the book will be finished this year . . . 

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15 minutes ago, Faint said:

Honestly, I don't buy that one either. 

Look at the evidence post-show, with his full concentration on the book: 

He thought he was 3 or 4 months from finishing in May 2015 . . .

Then he thought he was 3 or 4 months from finishing in September 2015 . . .

Then he thought he was 3 or 4 months from finishing in January 2016 . . . 

Now, here we are, January 2017, 20 months from when this first started, and what is he saying?

That he thinks the book will be finished this year . . . 

Well, yeah, he's a slow writer, we all knew that. I'm more worried about his motivation than anything else, to be honest. If he is just a procrastinator and a perfectionnist, then by all means let him take his time. However, if he is starting to lose interest in the series, we're basically done for.

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What this "update" tells me is that he's clearly had a poor writing year in 2016.

In 2015 he kept thinking he was 3 months away from finishing, and now he's 12 months on, and still not done.

It's a shame, but I hope he finishes in the first few months of this year and we finally get the book.

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I'm not one for foul language, but Holy ****!

How can you, in August 2015, by your own admission, realistically believe that you can meet your publisher's revised deadline of December 2015, only to be in a position in January 2017 where you are not sure whether the book will be out before 2018?

It utterly boggles the mind. I don't have words anymore to describe the situation.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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39 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I'm not one for foul language, but Holy ****!

How can you, in August 2015, by your own admission, realistically believe that you can meet your publisher's revised deadline of December 2015, only to be in a position in January 2017 where you are not sure whether the book will be out before 2018?

It utterly boggles the mind. I don't have words anymore to describe the situation.

Were you not around for the Dance wait?  I wasn't, but I've researched it.  He's been wrong this horribly with his estimates before.  

He thought he was "months away" with Dance a couple times.  In Summer 2007 he thought he could get it out by the end of 2007.  In February of 2009, he thought he could be finished by June 2009, etc.  

This is all just par for the course with George.  I wish he would just give page counts with no estimates on his part.  Using those, we could all probably estimate his time to completion far better than he could, lol.  

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45 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Were you not around for the Dance wait?  I wasn't, but I've researched it.  He's been wrong this horribly with his estimates before.  

He thought he was "months away" with Dance a couple times.  In Summer 2007 he thought he could get it out by the end of 2007.  In February of 2009, he thought he could be finished by June 2009, etc.  

This is all just par for the course with George.  I wish he would just give page counts with no estimates on his part.  Using those, we could all probably estimate his time to completion far better than he could, lol.  

I've been around since Book 1. But Dance had the infamous Meereneese knot that explained it all. This book not only has no knot, but had hundreds of pages carried over from Dance on Day 1.

Anyway, I now don't believe it will be out in 2017.

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