ASOIAF ruined other fiction books for me.

[Hereward]

Hornblower is to Aubrey as Jordan is to Tolkien. It's not bad, it's just not a classic.

Also, I agree on the bafflement about being spoiled for literature by Martin. I've been on this board for 15 years, but I joined not because I thought ASOIAF was great literature, but because I couldn't see how the two halves of the story could possibly be brought together to a satisfying, logical conclusion. Yes, there are some great characters, but the last two books have been average at best, and claiming something as a classic when it may well require TV writers to help wrap the thing up does not inspire me.

[Darth Richard II]

I don't agree that SFF started out as trash.And I don't agree that HF doesn't suffer from prejudice these days. *shrug*

[Lyanna Stark]

18 hours ago, SeanF said:

Just for you, a sample of her dialogue (after Katherine Howard and Anne of Cleves have had sex):-

"At dawn's first light they staggered out of bed, yawning, sticky from head to toe, hair a tangled, matted mess, reeking of honey, sex, and sweat.

Katherine imperiously demanded a bath.

"I have done what Henry could never do!" she crowed triumphantly. "I have ridden the Flanders Mare!"

"Ja, Liebchen," Anna embraced her and nuzzled her neck. "Und it was the greatest ride of mein life!"

The novel is called Vengeance is Mine (in the USA) The Tudor Wife (in the UK).  She couldn't find anyone willing to publish it, so self-published and it turned out to be a best-seller.  She sells very well (sadly).

 

0.o

That does indeed surpass expectations.

But seriously, my people, are we having a slug-fest about who sits on the lowest rung of the literary ladder and What Ought To Be Avoided in Service of Good Taste?

It seems to me with popularity comes the crap as well. See for instance Paolini as example. It seems an utter waste of time to argue about which genre has more crap.

 

@HappyEnt, such a surprising champion for the romance novel you are. We are delighted in this support from sentient trees.

 

PS: So @Crixus I expect you'd like to read and review that Purdy novel yes?

[Jo498]

It is a waste of time to try to determine what has more crap. But I do not think it is a waste of time to try to understand where the prejudices mentioned by Happy Ent come from and instead simply claim that they are unfounded because there is so much crappy historical fiction today and deny that they exist.

[Darth Richard II]

Meh, you all enjoy your speculative fiction, now if you'll excuse me I have to see a man about a dragon. 

[Crixus]

1 hour ago, Lyanna Stark said:

0.o

That does indeed surpass expectations.

But seriously, my people, are we having a slug-fest about who sits on the lowest rung of the literary ladder and What Ought To Be Avoided in Service of Good Taste?

It seems to me with popularity comes the crap as well. See for instance Paolini as example. It seems an utter waste of time to argue about which genre has more crap.

 

@HappyEnt, such a surprising champion for the romance novel you are. We are delighted in this support from sentient trees.

 

PS: So @Crixus I expect you'd like to read and review that Purdy novel yes?

Buy me a drink and I just might . If only to discover exactly what aspect honey played in that scene LOL.

How depressing unsurprising that she sells really well. Us Romance readers need to get together and write the purplest story ever on this board, one post at a time. Bet we'd sell even better! 

 

[Happy Ent]

1 hour ago, Lyanna Stark said:

@HappyEnt, such a surprising champion for the romance novel you are. We are delighted in this support from sentient trees.

Melinda’s bosom quivered against the intricate network of lace and leather straps that was her bodice, while her delicate, strong fingers lowly peeled away the bark of the strong sapling branch that had extended into her bedroom from the English gardens. The trunk shivered, reverberating in the ground, throbbing with a unknown and dangerous desire. With each piece of bark, large droplets of heavy, sweet sap fell onto Melinda, forming rivulets on her naked stomach, on the inside of her thigh, inching their way to her fuzzy mound.

[Darth Richard II]

0.0

[SeanF]

14 hours ago, Gabriele said:

Ah, the fond memories of Hornblower. I read those books in a German translation as teenager (when English books were difficult to get in Germany). I should find the English originals and do a reread. 

Penman and Sutcliff are great, of course. I'm a bit wary about recommending Sidebottom. I like his books, but I'm a total Roman geek.  He teaches that stuff and it sometimes shows in his writing by the insertion of explanatory offsides.

I don't how I forgot to mention George Macdonald Fraser's splendid Flashman series, among noteable historical novels.  None of them was worse than good, and some were outstanding.  IMO, the best were Flashman in the Great Game, Flashman at the Charge, and Flashman and the Mountain of Light.

[SeanF]

11 hours ago, Hereward said:

Hornblower is to Aubrey as Jordan is to Tolkien. It's not bad, it's just not a classic.

Also, I agree on the bafflement about being spoiled for literature by Martin. I've been on this board for 15 years, but I joined not because I thought ASOIAF was great literature, but because I couldn't see how the two halves of the story could possibly be brought together to a satisfying, logical conclusion. Yes, there are some great characters, but the last two books have been average at best, and claiming something as a classic when it may well require TV writers to help wrap the thing up does not inspire me.

I read Master and Commander and just didn't like it at all, but I've heard great things about the Aubrey/Maturin novels.  Would you say they get better?

[SeanF]

14 hours ago, Gabriele said:

Oh mein God (to stick with Purdy's Denglish), I don't think I want to know how her sex scenes between Piers Gaveston and King Edward play out.

As you might imagine, Piers Gaveston and Prince Edward conform to every gay stereotype imaginable.  They pout, they flounce, they burst into tears, they're obsessed with clothes and jewels, and they're wildly promiscuous.  For good measure, Piers is depicted as a pagan, whose mother was burned as a witch.

There's no sign of Edward, the warrior who fought at Bannockburn "like a lioness deprived of her cubs" or who rushed into a burning pavilion to rescue his wife and servants, or Piers, the champion tournament fighter and Lord Lieutenant of Ireland.

One approving review on Amazon sums it up.  "I love to get away from dreary historical "facts" when I'm reading a novel."

[SeanF]

53 minutes ago, Crixus said:

Buy me a drink and I just might . If only to discover exactly what aspect honey played in that scene LOL.

How depressing unsurprising that she sells really well. Us Romance readers need to get together and write the purplest story ever on this board, one post at a time. Bet we'd sell even better! 

 

Perhaps we should have a thread dedicated to Emily Purdy, similar to the Goodkind threads.

[HexMachina]

2 hours ago, Lyanna Stark said:

0.o

That does indeed surpass expectations.

But seriously, my people, are we having a slug-fest about who sits on the lowest rung of the literary ladder and What Ought To Be Avoided in Service of Good Taste?

It seems to me with popularity comes the crap as well. See for instance Paolini as example. It seems an utter waste of time to argue about which genre has more crap.

 

@HappyEnt, such a surprising champion for the romance novel you are. We are delighted in this support from sentient trees.

 

PS: So @Crixus I expect you'd like to read and review that Purdy novel yes?

Perhaps a joint read through with the literature sub-forum. It would be like a summer book club, with lesbian Queens and honey 

[Hereward]

53 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I read Master and Commander and just didn't like it at all, but I've heard great things about the Aubrey/Maturin novels.  Would you say they get better?

I'd guess that if you didn't like Master and Commander, you probably wouldn't like the others either.

[Jo498]

I liked most of Hornblower but could not get into the first Aubrey/Maturin (quite liked the movie, though). They might be better as far as historical accuracy goes but I read about 100 mostly boring pages, a considerable amount of which was spent showing Maturin/the reader the names of all the ropes, sails and rigging. Thank you, but that's what an appendix with a decent annotated drawing of a "tall ship" is for.

But I am sufficiently fond of nautical fiction that I have to try again someday, maybe with a later volume.

The (slight) drawback of the (later) Hornblower stories for me is that there are overall very few "fleshed out" characters besides Hornblower and most of the stories are simply not as good as the "El supremo" mission and later the imprisonment and escape from France.

[Crixus]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

Snip

One approving review on Amazon sums it up.  "I love to get away from dreary historical "facts" when I'm reading a novel."

I would've taken this as genius trolling once. Alas I am too world weary in my old age. 

[SeanF]

1 minute ago, Crixus said:

I would've taken this as genius trolling. Alas I am too world weary. 

Actually, it could have been top trolling, on reflection.

[The Marquis de Leech]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

I don't how I forgot to mention George Macdonald Fraser's splendid Flashman series, among noteable historical novels.  None of them was worse than good, and some were outstanding.  IMO, the best were Flashman in the Great Game, Flashman at the Charge, and Flashman and the Mountain of Light.

Seconded. Flashman is brilliant.

Since we're talking historical fiction, I might as well mention Mika Waltari: the likes of Sinuhe the Egyptian, and Dark Angel are classics.

[SeanF]

5 hours ago, Lyanna Stark said:

0.o

That does indeed surpass expectations.

But seriously, my people, are we having a slug-fest about who sits on the lowest rung of the literary ladder and What Ought To Be Avoided in Service of Good Taste?

It seems to me with popularity comes the crap as well. See for instance Paolini as example. It seems an utter waste of time to argue about which genre has more crap.

 

@HappyEnt, such a surprising champion for the romance novel you are. We are delighted in this support from sentient trees.

 

PS: So @Crixus I expect you'd like to read and review that Purdy novel yes?

I loved one reviewer on Goodreads who commented on this passage "it hurts us, it hurts us."

The book also contains the immortal line from Henry VIII to Katherine Howard "Honey, go fix me some toast", alongside people saying things like "Hey nonny nonny" "gadzooks" and "marry and anon."

[HexMachina]

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

I loved one reviewer on Goodreads who commented on this passage "it hurts us, it hurts us."

The book also contains the immortal line from Henry VIII to Katherine Howard "Honey, go fix me some toast", alongside people saying things like "Hey nonny nonny" "gadzooks" and "marry and anon."

 I really do feel I have to read this book now purely for the humour