Edric Dayne, Why aren't we talking about him?

[Lost Melnibonean]

9 hours ago, Winter Rose Crown said:

Hang on, I'm confused now. Edric Dayne is 12? Kids were typically breastfed to age 2 in 'medieval' times). Jon is 14. So she breastfed Jon for 2 years and then made a months-long journey south to starfall just in time to start nursing Edric? I guess his mother could have died/dried up when he was a few months old but the timing seems oddly convenient.

There is an SSM that says it took Ned months to get from ToJ to Winterfell, so would likely be just as long in reverse.

Not if she took ship from White Harbor. 

[Liaraeyne]

I've always thought that Ned Dayne is somehow very significant to the story. It seems he knows people who know what really happened regarding the Tower of Joy, the death of Arthur Dayne and the birth of Jon Snow. Also, he has Targaryen looks. Not sure if that means anything, though.

Perhaps he will be the new sword of the morning?

Or perhaps he will be the one that reveals what really happened between Eddard Stark and Arthur Dayne (it’s noteworthy that everyone says that Eddard killed Arthur Dayne, but Ned Dayne is named after Eddard Stark…)

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

40 minutes ago, Liaraeyne said:

everyone says that Eddard killed Arthur Dayne

Who says that? We get the impression that something went down between them, and that Ned returned his arms to his family. When Ned talks about it to Bran, he suggests Reed killed Dayne (or at least saved Ned from him). Most of it's implied though, I don't recall anyone outright saying "Eddard killed Arthur Dayne". Might be wrong though. 

[HowlandReed'sWorth]

Caitlin II AGOT

"They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys's Kingsguard, and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat."

[OuttaOldtown]

1 hour ago, HowlandReed'sWorth said:

Caitlin II AGOT

"They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys's Kingsguard, and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat."

But it's clear that there's more to it based on this, Ned makes it clear he'd have lost if it were simply single combat as Cat's thought suggests:

"The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne, who fought with a blade called Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star. They called him the Sword of the Morning, and he would have killed me but for Howland Reed."

 

[HowlandReed'sWorth]

1 minute ago, OuttaOldtown said:

But it's clear that there's more to it based on this, Ned makes it clear he'd have lost if it were simply single combat as Cat's thought suggests:

"The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne, who fought with a blade called Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star. They called him the Sword of the Morning, and he would have killed me but for Howland Reed."

 

I know that's not exactly what happened. Pretty obvious from the text, but Shouldve Taken the Black asked if anyone outright says Ned killed AD, I just provided textual evidence that someone does say that.

[Heartofwinter]

1 hour ago, HowlandReed'sWorth said:

Caitlin II AGOT

"They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys's Kingsguard, and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat."

Posting that is equivalent proof to posting something about Jon from Catelyn proving that Ned is Jon's father. She has no idea, only rumors. Maybe everyone says he killed Arthur Dayne, but there's no proof he did kill him.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

7 minutes ago, HowlandReed'sWorth said:

I know that's not exactly what happened. Pretty obvious from the text, but Shouldve Taken the Black asked if anyone outright says Ned killed AD, I just provided textual evidence that someone does say that.

Thanks, forgot that. Clearly that was the romanticised rumour that was circulating along with the Eddard-and-Ashara-sitting-in-a-tree-story. Fair point.  

[HowlandReed'sWorth]

Just now, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Thanks, forgot that. Clearly that was the romanticised rumour that was circulating along with the Eddard-and-Ashara-sitting-in-a-tree-story. Fair point.  

Yea I don't buy into that story at all. Just answering your question.

[OuttaOldtown]

37 minutes ago, HowlandReed'sWorth said:

I know that's not exactly what happened. Pretty obvious from the text, but Shouldve Taken the Black asked if anyone outright says Ned killed AD, I just provided textual evidence that someone does say that.

I gotya, but since it's clearly one of the many false conclusions Cat has in those early chapters it's not a reliable source, it's telling you he killed him while excluding a major factor revealed by Ned himself. Edric is a poor source on these events much the same as Cat, it's proof to not put a lot of stock in the rumor mill..

[HowlandReed'sWorth]

2 minutes ago, OuttaOldtown said:

I gotya, but since it's clearly one of the many false conclusions Cat has in those early chapters it's not a reliable source, it's telling you he killed him while excluding a major factor revealed by Ned himself. Edric is a poor source on these events much the same as Cat, it's proof to not put a lot of stock in the rumor mill..

I agree with you completely. 

 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

I think we’re all in agreement that Cat’s POV is an unreliable source with regards to Ashara/Ned/Jon/TOJ, etc. Ned refused to talk about it with her, and she was going off gossip around Winterfell. That does, however, suggest she is reflecting what may be generally believed, so I concede that point.

[OuttaOldtown]

1 hour ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

I think we’re all in agreement that Cat’s POV is an unreliable source with regards to Ashara/Ned/Jon/TOJ, etc. Ned refused to talk about it with her, and she was going off gossip around Winterfell. That does, however, suggest she is reflecting what may be generally believed, so I concede that point.

 

My point originally is the we have only four direct mentions of Ashara in the whole series, one more if you count 'the maid with the laughing purple eyes'. So we all mostly agree Cat is not a reliable source. Then we have Cersei who echoes the same rumor as Cat, doesn't have any first hand knowlege, Edric who never knew her and Selmy who doesn't give us any real insight into her that we don't already know. As others have said I think her purpose in the story is to shed more doubt on Jon's true identity, my personal theory is that she is proof that Rhaegar's choice of naming Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty was NOT about conventional beauty. Here's Selmy's thought:

Rhaegar had chosen Lyanna Stark of Winterfell. Barristan Selmy would have made a different choice. Not the queen, who was not present. Nor Elia ofDorne, though she was good and gentle; had she been chosen, much war and woe might have been avoided. His choice would have been a young maiden not long at court, one of Elia’s companions.

Interesting that he also adds that she was 'not long at court', despite her purple eyes and being a new face in the crowd she was not the one he chose. Instead it was a girl who is never described as being among the great beauties of her age. the most interesting quote is via Oberyn:

Elia loved Rhaegar. She obeyed him. And he chose to steal away Lyanna Stark, a pale

Northern girl whose veins ran with ice, like all her people.

Now of course he wasn't a witness either, but his usage of having ice for blood is highly suggestive that his motives were based on that, not her great beauty or his carnal desires..

[WolfQueenArya]

I think we will see him again. It wouldn't surprise me if Arya ran into him again and that he's changed. Who knows... Maybe George will have them marry instead of all this arguing over Jon/Arya (which I can still happening) or Jon/Sansa ( which I hate). Middle ground being Arya/Ned. And with Gendry coming into the picture again we can have our love triangle from the original draft. 

Just speculating. It would be kind of neat for Arya to wield Dark Sister against the night king...

[The Fattest Leech]

54 minutes ago, WolfQueenArya said:

I think we will see him again. It wouldn't surprise me if Arya ran into him again and that he's changed. Who knows... Maybe George will have them marry instead of all this arguing over Jon/Arya (which I can still happening) or Jon/Sansa ( which I hate). Middle ground being Arya/Ned. And with Gendry coming into the picture again we can have our love triangle from the original draft. 

Just speculating. It would be kind of neat for Arya to wield Dark Sister against the night king...

I am not hating this idea. Good speculating 

George did say Arya and Gendry would meet again and to pull an actual Dayne into our story (other than Gerold). 

Arya does fit the Dark Sister description. I always kinda had a feeling Arya would get Dark Sister. It was forged to fit a female, after all. Just need to find Brynden Rivers first 

[GallowsKnight]

I always imagined it something like this. Arthur procures Wylla from his household when Lyanna falls pregnant at the Tower of Joy (or even earlier if they're actively trying). As a wetnurse she likely also has midwifery skills. Wylla and Lyanna grow close in isolation. Lyanna has Jon Snow. Wylla is aware of the parentage.

Ned kills the Kingsguard. Lyanna dies. While Ned tears down the tower to bury his friends (with controlled fires and multiple horse power), Wylla breastfeeds Jon. They travel to Starfall and he returns Arthurs sword. Wylla returns to the dayne household.

Ned and Wylla agree that she will claim to be Jon Snow's mother and he the father. Timeline doesn't work but she's been away from home enough time to have a child. He leaves her behind and takes Jon North. Rumours of "Wylla" reach Robert (see aGoT). Catelyn hears rumours about Ashara Dayne. Draws the wrong conclusions. 

A couple years later Ned Dayne is born and Wylla is his nurse-maid. He grows up hearing the story line that Wylla was Jon Snow's mother.

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, GallowsKnight said:

I always imagined it something like this. Arthur procures Wylla from his household when Lyanna falls pregnant at the Tower of Joy (or even earlier if they're actively trying). As a wetnurse she likely also has midwifery skills. Wylla and Lyanna grow close in isolation. Lyanna has Jon Snow. Wylla is aware of the parentage.

Ned kills the Kingsguard. Lyanna dies. While Ned tears down the tower to bury his friends (with controlled fires and multiple horse power), Wylla breastfeeds Jon. They travel to Starfall and he returns Arthurs sword. Wylla returns to the dayne household.

Ned and Wylla agree that she will claim to be Jon Snow's mother and he the father. Timeline doesn't work but she's been away from home enough time to have a child. He leaves her behind and takes Jon North. Rumours of "Wylla" reach Robert (see aGoT). Catelyn hears rumours about Ashara Dayne. Draws the wrong conclusions. 

A couple years later Ned Dayne is born and Wylla is his nurse-maid. He grows up hearing the story line that Wylla was Jon Snow's mother.

Yeah, I picture it more or less the same way. I just don't think that the story about Wylla spread beyond Starfall, rather that Robert pried the name from Ned, after the gossip about Ned's "slip" and bastard in Winterfell reached the South.

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, GallowsKnight said:

I always imagined it something like this. Arthur procures Wylla from his household when Lyanna falls pregnant at the Tower of Joy (or even earlier if they're actively trying). As a wetnurse she likely also has midwifery skills. Wylla and Lyanna grow close in isolation. Lyanna has Jon Snow. Wylla is aware of the parentage.

Ned kills the Kingsguard. Lyanna dies. While Ned tears down the tower to bury his friends (with controlled fires and multiple horse power), Wylla breastfeeds Jon. They travel to Starfall and he returns Arthurs sword. Wylla returns to the dayne household.

Ned and Wylla agree that she will claim to be Jon Snow's mother and he the father. Timeline doesn't work but she's been away from home enough time to have a child. He leaves her behind and takes Jon North. Rumours of "Wylla" reach Robert (see aGoT). Catelyn hears rumours about Ashara Dayne. Draws the wrong conclusions. 

A couple years later Ned Dayne is born and Wylla is his nurse-maid. He grows up hearing the story line that Wylla was Jon Snow's mother.

Eminently plausible. 

[Arrow of the Morning]

Well. Edric is a much smaller character, he just appeared very briefly in A Storm of Swords and his function was to give some exposition to Arya (and us) about Jon's parentage and the relationship between Eddard Stark and Ashara (and House Dayne). Probably, in George original plans, he would become the new Sword of the Morning after the five years gap. Now, it is unclear what his role will be and his whereabouts is a mystery. We only know that he is no more with the Brotherhood Without Banners, some believe he funded other group of outlaws after the BWB became twisted by Lady Stone Heart. But, he can went south to deliver Beric's bones to Blackhaven and tell his aunt about his death. May be he is back in Starfall right now.

About the information he gave to us, it is just another puzzle piece, not one hundred percent accurate, but that carry some truth or can give us a scenario that led people believe in that story. He said that (1) Jon's mother is Wylla and (2) Eddard and Ashara and the pain of the separation led her to suicide.

1) We also know that Robert thinks that, Eddard Stark himself told him. Wylla is a lowborn woman from Dorne. We know that Ned is not likely to sleep around and betray his wife and he is more likely to be Jon's mother, so why Edric and Robert think she is Jon's mother (and Ned tell it) is unknown.

2) We know Ashara killed herself, but if she was in love with Eddard and the end of the romance was the cause we don't know. Edrid and Allyria believe in that, Barristan also mention she fell in love with a Stark, the servants of Winterfell also heard the rumor and both danced in Harrenhal, if they really had a romance we have to wait to discover, the reasons she commit suicide are unclear and it can have happened for a series of reasons.  

[Arrow of the Morning]

6 hours ago, GallowsKnight said:

I always imagined it something like this. Arthur procures Wylla from his household when Lyanna falls pregnant at the Tower of Joy (or even earlier if they're actively trying). As a wetnurse she likely also has midwifery skills. Wylla and Lyanna grow close in isolation. Lyanna has Jon Snow. Wylla is aware of the parentage.

Ned kills the Kingsguard. Lyanna dies. While Ned tears down the tower to bury his friends (with controlled fires and multiple horse power), Wylla breastfeeds Jon. They travel to Starfall and he returns Arthurs sword. Wylla returns to the dayne household.

Ned and Wylla agree that she will claim to be Jon Snow's mother and he the father. Timeline doesn't work but she's been away from home enough time to have a child. He leaves her behind and takes Jon North. Rumours of "Wylla" reach Robert (see aGoT). Catelyn hears rumours about Ashara Dayne. Draws the wrong conclusions. 

A couple years later Ned Dayne is born and Wylla is his nurse-maid. He grows up hearing the story line that Wylla was Jon Snow's mother.

I think Wylla entered in that story in the same way you are pointing above.