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Can't Believe They Spoiled That! *SPOILERS*


YoungGriff89

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So, I haven't seen any other thread like this so I figured this is an interesting question to ask since we have accepted the show and book are two separate entities and a lot of the bad writing decisions lately are mostly to blame on D&D.  What if some of these things that we are accepting as show only changes are actually story developments from later books that will happen differently?

I'll start:  Many northern houses like the Umbers betraying the remaining Starks.

The Sand Snakes (led by Obara of course) wiping out the Martell family/ Areo Hotah in a similar fashion and taking over Dorne. 

Just to clarify I'm only asking about things that don't seem like they would be a book spoiler but really are.  

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I actually think the two examples the op gave are relatively possible in the books, if not likely. 

I can totally see House Magnar of Skaagos plotting to hand Rickon over to the Boltons in return for some kind of independence deal.

And I can also see Doran and Trystane being wiped out, albeit in somewhat different circumstances. With Hotah off chasing Darkstar, Doran and Trystane are less protected, so what if Darkstar is actually hiding in Sunspear, waiting for the chance to strike. 

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I speculated that Sansa could be in for a sexual assault, possibly by whoever she does wind up marrying but there is the line where Robert says "get her a dog instead" in the book as well.  Obviously in the show this foreshadowing came to fruition when she fed Ramsey to his dogs, could it be possible she actually somehow gets assaulted by Ramsey in the books as well?  I have no idea how George would get there, but it would be quite the twist.  

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The one that really bothers me in the Shireen burning.  When I first saw the scene, I was completely outraged because I just could not accept that Stannis would ever do this.  In the books, he is in a similar situation with being stuck in the snow and his men freezing, but the Theon chapter from TWOW makes it clear he has some sort of plan and he will not go down as easily as he did in the show.

So although Shireen cannot possibly be sacrificed by Stannis prior to attacking Winterfell (she is still at Castle Black with Mel), I have grudgingly come to accept this is likely to happen in the novels, albeit in a completely different scenario (ex. The Others attacking after the Wall falling).

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20 hours ago, YoungGriff89 said:

So, I haven't seen any other thread like this so I figured this is an interesting question to ask since we have accepted the show and book are two separate entities and a lot of the bad writing decisions lately are mostly to blame on D&D.  What if some of these things that we are accepting as show only changes are actually story developments from later books that will happen differently?

I'll start:  Many northern houses like the Umbers betraying the remaining Starks.

The Sand Snakes (led by Obara of course) wiping out the Martell family/ Areo Hotah in a similar fashion and taking over Dorne. 

Just to clarify I'm only asking about things that don't seem like they would be a book spoiler but really are.  

Jesus fucking christ...HBO bought the right from GRRM to use his source material and add their own twist off things. 

The fact that after 6 fucking years since the show is on air, GRRM didnt finish at least one book, is his own fault. How is this so hard to understand?

 

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8 hours ago, Nocturne said:

Jesus fucking christ...HBO bought the right from GRRM to use his source material and add their own twist off things. 

The fact that after 6 fucking years since the show is on air, GRRM didnt finish at least one book, is his own fault. How is this so hard to understand?

 

Easy to understand, yes.  So easy you might even go out on a limb and say I understand it.  What point are you making?  If this is in reference to my comment about some of the worst plot points from season four-six being D&D ideas that George didn't necessarily give them, are you going to deny that some things like Dorne, Sansa filling the F/Arya plot, and the gaping plot hole that this Varys, are not ideas that originated with D&D?

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On ‎13‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 5:27 PM, YoungGriff89 said:

So, I haven't seen any other thread like this so I figured this is an interesting question to ask since we have accepted the show and book are two separate entities and a lot of the bad writing decisions lately are mostly to blame on D&D.  What if some of these things that we are accepting as show only changes are actually story developments from later books that will happen differently?

I'll start:  Many northern houses like the Umbers betraying the remaining Starks.

The Sand Snakes (led by Obara of course) wiping out the Martell family/ Areo Hotah in a similar fashion and taking over Dorne. 

Just to clarify I'm only asking about things that don't seem like they would be a book spoiler but really are.  

Enjoy.

 

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We only know, as of now, two things corroborated by George.

From the books we know there are a lot of disjoint (from the page) stories , some of the show must 'shadow' the book story, but we do have the case of Sansa's story , show wise, is totally disjoint from the books. It is possible her story in the books will merge with the show but as of right now it is a totally different story.

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15 hours ago, Travis said:

According to D&D, GRRM himself confirmed to them that Shireen will burn.

Indeed, with the implication from D & D that Stannis is the one to agree to it.  So my question is how and when will this take place in the book?

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7 hours ago, Rubicante said:

Indeed, with the implication from D & D that Stannis is the one to agree to it.  So my question is how and when will this take place in the book?

What if it doesn't happen until Dream of Spring?

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17 hours ago, Rubicante said:

Indeed, with the implication from D & D that Stannis is the one to agree to it.  So my question is how and when will this take place in the book?

Presumably it's a situation where the white walkers are coming and coming hard - a last, desperate, shocking hail mary before annihilation, made all the more shocking when it doesn't work. Clearly the scenario presented by the show can't logistically happen. 

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On July 14, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Ser Gareth said:

Enjoy.

 

Maybe my comment was taken out of context, I didn't mean for this to be a critique thread.  It seems universally accepted that most of the less popular story ideas are the result of D&D making stuff up, I stated it as an observation.  That is how most people feel.  I'm just asking if anybody thinks some of the stuff we've accepted as show only is in fact a book spoiler and why.  

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18 hours ago, TheCasualObserver said:

Presumably it's a situation where the white walkers are coming and coming hard - a last, desperate, shocking hail mary before annihilation, made all the more shocking when it doesn't work. Clearly the scenario presented by the show can't logistically happen. 

Agreed.  Although the act on Stannis' part regardless of the circumstance is unforgivable, at least it will be well set up as opposed to being forced by the actions of "20 Good Men".

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Stannis losing and dying at Winterfell. If we can believe D&D, then Stannis orders the burning of Shireen and he can't do that if he dies at the beginning of tWoW. So either they lied and Stannis loses and dies or he actually liberates WF and burns Shireen for some other reason (my theory is that he does it after the wall falls).

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On 15/07/2016 at 6:10 AM, Rubicante said:

Indeed, with the implication from D & D that Stannis is the one to agree to it.  So my question is how and when will this take place in the book?

I believe Shireen will burn some day, most likely. IIRC, D&D said they had it from GRRM. But how much did they invent? To have the deed darker and more despicable. I was rather expecting Melisandre and Selyse, without Stannis knowledge. Maybe only because the Greyscale has returned. I don't see Stannis allowing that, once he knows he is not AAR.

Otherwise, I could believe Sansa's marriage with Ramsey will look a bit like her marriage with Harry. If it ever happen. Not so bad, but still.

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23 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I believe Shireen will burn some day, most likely. IIRC, D&D said they had it from GRRM. But how much did they invent? To have the deed darker and more despicable. I was rather expecting Melisandre and Selyse, without Stannis knowledge. Maybe only because the Greyscale has returned. I don't see Stannis allowing that, once he knows he is not AAR.

Otherwise, I could believe Sansa's marriage with Ramsey will look a bit like her marriage with Harry. If it ever happen. Not so bad, but still.

The issue with the Sansa marriage is how GRRM has set it up. In the case of the book, the marriage won't happen until Sansa demonstrably proves able to manipulate Harry. If she can't then the marriage won't happen because he still thinks she's a bastard and not up to snuff as the wife of the heir to the vale. She has to seduce him for the marriage to work, which places her in a very strong position.

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Shireen was set to burn since the beginning. The foreshadowing is there. However I still think it's highly improbable for Stannis to do the deed, if he wins and survives the Battle for Winterfell, I'll take out the "highly" before "improbable".

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