What is the meaning of this aspect in Sansa's storyline?

[Winter's Cold]

Bran didn't get to become a knight like he wanted. Sansa might also not become a Queen like she wanted. Not all characters get to have their wishes come true. 

[Bear Claw]

48 minutes ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

The people who are not blinded by what the book Sansa is like and how hot she is on the show don't see those. Strength of mind? Prove it. Political Savvy? What politics has she been involved in? She has been a prisoner of someone ever since her father died. Connections? Her only connection is Little FInger who is more likely to sell her AGAIN to promote is own goals. For jeez sake lol, her own people didn't even follow her and she is the oldest legitimate child of Ned Stark.

 

Yes it is my opinion, but it is not without basis.Whether you agree or not is up to you. Strength of mind- After all she has suffered, she is focused and calm. She is not just surviving, but she is winning. Political Savvy- She used the resources and people available to win the battle.She also helped the downfall of Roose Bolton by planting more doubt in Ramsay's mind about his legitimacy . 

[House_Tony_Stark]

18 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

You are trying very hard to elevate Sansa for some very odd reason.

I didn't elevate her. It was Ned's father who had Southern ambitions and made a betrothal between Cat and his son. Next, it was Cat's father who married his daughter to Jon of the Vale. These are powerful families. Sansa is unique. She has familial alliances that no other character has (bar her siblings).  I am not a Westeros expert, and if anyone knows please tell me, but who in Westeros has these familial alliances? Alliances are important and Dany isn't planning on getting the iron throne solely through treachery. She said she needed to make marriage(family) alliances. Sansa already has them. I think Sansa's alliances are in the story for a reason and that they will come into play eventually. (The have already with the Vale). 

Even if something were to happen to Jon.

I don't know what Jon is going to do. I am looking at Sansa and her future. I really don't see Jon as a ruler of Westeros. Who else besides the North would want him? Sansa could gain the North's support, the support of the Vale, and the support of the Riverlands. 

Also keep in mind that this is still a patriarchal society.

This is obviously changing. 

Sansa is no warrior nor will she ever be one

I am talking about when the war is over. He is a warrior, but after the war they will need a political leader. Someone has to deal with the Iron Bank, and I think Sansa  would be better to handle issues like that. 

Her uncle does not rule the Riverlands, the Lannisters/Frey's do.

Her cousin does not rule the Vale, Little Finger rules the Vale.

I think LF will be out of the picture this season. Her cousin rules the Vale and I believe the situation in the Riverlands has changed due to Arya's work. The Freys were a mess before. The only thing holding them together was Walder. Arya took out Walder and two sons. It seems likely that the Riverlands is in rebellion again and that Edmure is in charge again. 

I don't know what is going to happen in the future. Sansa could die next season, but these are my thoughts.  I am looking at the final result of this story (post-war).

1. Danny is getting the throne through treachery regardless of how much we want to idolize her. She went around the Dothraki traditions by trapping all the Khals in a room and burning them alive. In the first city she went to she tricked that guy and locked in a vault. Not to mention she did not exactly protest when her brother was killed. She just gets a pass because she is a blonde girl.

2. The society is not changing unless a law is changed. Cersei for example is only able to assume power because she has no male heirs. If she ever has another child the power will eventually pass to him.

3. There is no need for the North to ever deal with the Iron bank, they have a Nordic society that's based on survival and honor. Not political gains like in Kings Landing. Example, the banner men fight because they swear to not because they are being paid a wage like the Lannister soldiers.

4. " I think LF will bt out of the picture" The show will be over next season....none of us know how it will end. LF could become the King when all is said and done for all we know. So as of right know Little Finger is the Lord Regent of the Vale assuming Robin lives long enough to one day rule.

5. Wrong again, the only thing holding together the Riverlands was the Lannister army which borders the Riverlands. Arya took out Walder and his two sons which will cause a lot of problems for them. But Edmure is only alive because Jamie Lannister allowed him to live and the Tully's army was disarmed so he has no rebellion. This is also ignoring the fact he is locked in a jail cell.....So unless Arya frees him and he someone rides all the way back to his castle and raises an army with no weapons it's still under occupation.

And don't get me wrong I think it's cool that you are speculating it's a fun discussion. But I think you are very biased to Sansa....she needs to actually show us she is capable of doing something besides relying on Little Finger.

[House_Tony_Stark]

Also back on the Riverland's I think this is an area that would be suitable for Sansa to rise to power. I would love to see Sansa strike a deal with Little Finger that she will marry him under the following conditions.

1. He sends the knights of the Vale to the Riverlands and they proclaim themselves the King & Queen of the Riverlands. This way she can also keep her Stark name and should she ever turn on Little Finger she would have all the power to herself.

2. He then has to support a Vale/North/Riverlands alliance.

 

[King Jon Snow Stark]

12 minutes ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

Also back on the Riverland's I think this is an area that would be suitable for Sansa to rise to power. I would love to see Sansa strike a deal with Little Finger that she will marry him under the following conditions.

1. He sends the knights of the Vale to the Riverlands and they proclaim themselves the King & Queen of the Riverlands. This way she can also keep her Stark name and should she ever turn on Little Finger she would have all the power to herself.

2. He then has to support a Vale/North/Riverlands alliance.

 

Then they rule all of Westeros? Or just the Riverlands?

[Kytheros]

5 hours ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

 

Okay? Dragonstone was the keep that Robert granted Stannis after the rebellion and gave his little brother Storms End. That has nothing to do with this discussion which takes place probably a year or two later. The men loyal to Stannis were deceimated in Blackwater Bay and what was left of them were all killed in the North. 

And did you read anything I wrote lol? If she went back to the Vale she would be going back to the person who put her in the position to begin with, that's not safety.  She would have essentially been in prison for the rest of her life.

Dragonstone is an island and a keep.

After Blackwater, Stannis retreated to Dragonstone. When he went North, there is no indication that he abandoned the place. In fact, there's indications that he left an adequate garrison.

Sure, in the books, Dragonstone ultimately got stormed by the Crown/Lannister/Tyrell forces who took heavy losses in the process - and that's why Loras is unavailable to be Margaery's champion in a Trial by Combat in the books, because he's supposedly horribly injured from taking the place.

But in the show, Dragonstone hasn't been attacked, or if it has, it's not been mentioned, and as such, is presumably still held by men who were loyal to Stannis.

The last known orders Stannis sent to Dragonstone were to mine dragonglass/obsidian and ship it North. What's going on there now? Not a clue - for that matter, they probably don't even know that Stannis is dead.

I expect that in the show, Dragonstone will either be forgotten about, or taken by Daenerys's forces. Maybe they'll take the losses there that the Crown/Lannister/Tyrells forces did in the books.

[TheCasualObserver]

4 hours ago, Bear Claw said:

Yes it is my opinion, but it is not without basis.Whether you agree or not is up to you. Strength of mind- After all she has suffered, she is focused and calm. She is not just surviving, but she is winning. Political Savvy- She used the resources and people available to win the battle.She also helped the downfall of Roose Bolton by planting more doubt in Ramsay's mind about his legitimacy . 

But it's debatable what effect any of her moves actually had when you examine them critically.

Ramsay might have killed Roose because Sansa planted the idea in his head, but it's more likely that Roose's own conduct toward his son did that. And since Ramsay's legitimacy came from the iron throne and Sansa becoming his wife is proof of his split with the iron throne, did Sansa really need to say anything to make this an issue? Her passive presence should really have done the job without her needing to say anything, which is hardly a great political move.

Even if we accept that she was responsible for Ramsay killing Roose, this also makes her partly culpable in innocent Walda and baby Roose's deaths as well. And how much did killing Roose change to the plot? Nothing, he simply would have died alongside Ramsay in ep 9 instead of at Ramsay's hand in ep 4. 

Her use of "the resources and people available to win the battle" was shoddy in the extreme - a failure to inform Jon of impending reinforcements was partially responsible for hundreds dying when they didn't need to. As an example of Sansa playing the game and moving her pieces it's pretty damn poor.

Finally, LF was planning to invade the North for nearly two seasons. To what extent was Sansa's go ahead pivotal to his response? The writers might want us to think that Sansa' involvement was critical here, but that seems pretty weak sauce to me. LF can't martial all the forces of the Vale, march them hundreds of miles north in full armor and plan a way to take over of the North, and then turn them around a go home because Sansa is pissed at him. 

I just don't see the political savvy you mention at work here. How can Sansa have really learned anything if she considers the idea of LF in charge of the seven kingdoms with her at his side as a "pretty picture"? 

[Bear Claw]

36 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

 

 

I just don't see the political savvy you mention at work here. How can Sansa have really learned anything if she considers the idea of LF in charge of the seven kingdoms with her at his side as a "pretty picture"? 

Well, this is what the writers are giving us. I think in the books her  behind the scenes maneuvering will be more clear and eloquent. I  think the writers do want to show us that she is learning and using what LF has taught her. In season 5,  in the crypts, LF tells her something like, even the most dangerous men can be out played/maneuvered and she has learned from the best. I think her actions this season ( and some from last season) were suppose to reflect her learning. That they are not clear or questionable is probably due to the writing. If the viewer doesn't see anything learned, then he/she has to accept the fact that all of the other Stark children have moved through story arcs where they have all learned valuable skills-all of them except Sansa. I doubt that Sansa is suppose to go through the show and books learning nothing. I see her growth. (I thought her answer to LF's pretty picture was smart. It keeps the enemy close, but not too close)

[TheCasualObserver]

13 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

Well, this is what the writers are giving us. I think in the books her  behind the scenes maneuvering will be more clear and eloquent. I  think the writers do want to show us that she is learning and using what LF has taught her. In season 5,  in the crypts, LF tells her something like, even the most dangerous men can be out played/maneuvered and she has learned from the best. I think her actions this season ( and some from last season) were suppose to reflect her learning. That they are not clear or questionable is probably due to the writing. If the viewer doesn't see anything learned, then he/she has to accept the fact that all of the other Stark children have moved through story arcs where they have all learned valuable skills-all of them except Sansa. I doubt that Sansa is suppose to go through the show and books learning nothing. I see her growth. (I thought her answer to LF's pretty picture was smart. It keeps the enemy close, but not too close)

I guess there is something to be said about leaving a foot in the door for the next time she might need him. And this is certainly an improvement from their meeting in episode 4: It's all well and good to point out what an idiot LF was and how Sansa was mistreated, but revealing your hand to an enemy whilst giving him room to maeouver is a political no no, as Ned Stark's snafoo in the godswood with Cersei proves.

That being said, I still can't say that this seems like a lesson Sansa has learned per se. She seems to be positively predisposed to LF now because he helped her at Winterfell, not because she has critically thought about her strategic position. I can't decide if it's Sophie Turner's acting or Sansa's scripting, but there's an element of simplistic cause and effect at play here. He rescues her from the Lannisters, she likes LF. She gets raped, she hates LF. He helps her out at winterfell, she likes LF, etc. 

[lakin1013]

Sometimes, when I read the forums about Sansa I wondered if anyone actually likes her.  If I had a friend who was raped and beaten by an evil person for 7 months and my friend escapes, would I immediately begin plotting for her to run for state legislature?  Would she even be ready?  Sansa wanted to go HOME.  She is home, and she is SAFE and she is SAFE with Jon.  Why don't we give her a chance to recover some equilibrium before we thrown her back into the ring.  

And some want her to marry that sniveling, baby Sweet Robin?  I would not wish that on an enemy.  Others suggest she should marry lying, conniving LF.  Again, NOPE.  As Lady of Winterfell, and as lovely as she is, surely a better match will arrive.  I do not think her only two options are whiner or liar. 

Best for Sansa is to acquire some balance, start managing Winterfell, and see where her talents and interests lie.  I should think that with Jon she is about to meet some very influential people who will guide her.  I actually think Davos might be a very kind and helpful figure to her.  

[Bear Claw]

3 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

Sometimes, when I read the forums about Sansa I wondered if anyone actually likes her.  If I had a friend who was raped and beaten by an evil person for 7 months and my friend escapes, would I immediately begin plotting for her to run for state legislature?  Would she even be ready?  Sansa wanted to go HOME.  She is home, and she is SAFE and she is SAFE with Jon.  Why don't we give her a chance to recover some equilibrium before we thrown her back into the ring.  

 

Yes I would love to see her character rest, but the show doesn't have time to depict that. Just like how Arya was stabbed and quickly recovered. There are no rest periods for our characters. 

[TheCasualObserver]

1 minute ago, lakin1013 said:

Sometimes, when I read the forums about Sansa I wondered if anyone actually likes her.  If I had a friend who was raped and beaten by an evil person for 7 months and my friend escapes, would I immediately begin plotting for her to run for state legislature?  Would she even be ready?  Sansa wanted to go HOME.  She is home, and she is SAFE and she is SAFE with Jon.  Why don't we give her a chance to recover some equilibrium before we thrown her back into the ring.  

And some want her to marry that sniveling, baby Sweet Robin?  I would not wish that on an enemy.  Others suggest she should marry lying, conniving LF.  Again, NOPE.  As Lady of Winterfell, and a lovely as she is, surely a better match will arrive.  I do not think her only two options are whiner or liar. 

Best for Sansa is to acquire some balance, start managing Winterfell, and see where her talents and interests lie.  I should think that with Jon she is about to meet some very influential people who will guide her.  I actually think Davos might be a very kind figure to her.  

I think a key problem some of us have with the character is that she actually did "acquire some balance" in her life earlier in the show. At the end of season 4 she placed LF at a disadvantage (because he was relying on her to keep him cozy with the Vale lords) but kept him as an ally and secured her own position as a player within the Vale. She had taken control and gives it up instantly come season 5. This is largely because the plot required her to rather than any implication of characterization, but it still rankles. Marrying Ramsay is a profoundly stupid thing to do - stupid of LF to propose it, stupid of Sansa to agree to it. Nobody marries into their enemies for revenge.

And we aren't throwing her into the ring - she throws herself into the ring because she wants revenge on Ramsay. It is Sansa that persuades Jon to fight Ramsay and Sansa that back channels with LF the whole time. Like it or not, Sansa demonstrably is plotting again within the first few episodes of season 6... she just sucks at it. 

[Darksky]

I will never understand why Sansa is such a popular character in the fandom. Book or show, she's a bland 'little' girl who always has to rely on others who get shit done for her. She has no skillset, well apart from sewing and lying. She is not politically savvy, is bad at numbers, has not shown any indication she'd be good at managing a household, let alone a kingdom, is wishy washy. Her role in the books is to serve as a way to look into Littlefinger.

People are way overstating her contribution in season 6. She didn't use her merits, talents or cunning to get The Vale's support. That was Littlefinger. He did so because he wants to get into her pants, not because she's oh so brilliant. Robin Arryn agreed to help only because she is his cousin, not because she earned his gratitude and respect in some way. So she wasn't an active player in this subplot. Being a Stark and Robin's family is no feat of hers, since she was born that way. And Littlefinger thinks of her as an object of lust. He didn't want to help her because he thinks she has what it takes to rule and improve the world or whatever. He wants to rule and have her as a doting trophy wife. A huge part of his obsession with Sansa is also his unwavering grudge with regard to Catelyn-Brandon and Ned. He didn't get Cat, so he tries to get her daughter.

As a trueborn Stark, her inability to secure the North's loyalty and support for the Winterfell battle was a huge failure on her part.

I'm one of those who think Petyr and the Arryn army would have moved against the Boltons whether Sansa asked him for it or not. So her SOS letter was not as significant as people are making it out to be. She just begged for help she initially refused, and hoped it'd come. That's where her role starts and ends. She once again had to rely on someone to bail her out.

Sansa is a talker, not a doer. Her role in season 6 can be likened to a following situation:

Someone sees someone drowning and screams for help, but doesn't try to do more, then someone else comes running, jumps into water and saves that person. Who gets the bigger credit? The rescuer or the yeller?

Seems like for Sansa fans, it'd be the yeller.

There are people who actually think she reclaimed Winterfell or saved Jon. Some even said she did so single-handedly. This is the worst. I must have missed the part where she drew up battle plans, picked up a sword and thought the Boltons all on her own. This is called warping the reality.

Jon survived thanks to Jon himself (kept himself from dying during the battle), Davos, then Tormund, then The Vale. Not Sansa. She was just tagging along, sitting on her high horse and smirking. Let's not forget he'd have been in less danger if she had come clean about The Arryns coming.

The victory against Ramsay was a joint effort. But there's been this emphasis on downplaying or outright denying it. It's not like Jon and his men just stood there, doing nothing but letting themselves be massacred until the reinforcements came at the 11th hour. Given the fact they were severely outnumbered, untrained, unequipped and undisciplined, they did a great job. The Arryns' contribution wasn't as big as people think. They were the supporting force, not the conquering one. They showed up late to the party and were given an easy task. Jon, his men and Ramsay himself did the most damage to Ramsay's army. They obliterated Bolton cavalry, then came the infantry which sustained heavy casualties too. Then phalanx or shield wall happened. At that point the Bolton forces were damaged, distracted and horseless. They stood no chance against an intact cavalry which had an element of surprise to its advantage. Boltons were easy pickings for them due to what I've already mentioned but also the fact the Arryns had an opportunity to attack from behind the shield wall. If it had been facing the enemy, the Arryns would have been skewered. Jon got to Winterfell first and the castle was breached because of Wun Wun. Ramsay was neutralised thanks to Jon.

 

[ThePukwudgie]

8 hours ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

 

Okay? Dragonstone was the keep that Robert granted Stannis after the rebellion and gave his little brother Storms End. That has nothing to do with this discussion which takes place probably a year or two later. The men loyal to Stannis were deceimated in Blackwater Bay and what was left of them were all killed in the North. 

And did you read anything I wrote lol? If she went back to the Vale she would be going back to the person who put her in the position to begin with, that's not safety.  She would have essentially been in prison for the rest of her life.

As far as Dragonstone goes, just read what Kytheros wrote.

As for Sansa, while I don't trust LF with Sansa, she still would have been physically safe with him.

3 hours ago, Kytheros said:

Dragonstone is an island and a keep.

After Blackwater, Stannis retreated to Dragonstone. When he went North, there is no indication that he abandoned the place. In fact, there's indications that he left an adequate garrison.

Sure, in the books, Dragonstone ultimately got stormed by the Crown/Lannister/Tyrell forces who took heavy losses in the process - and that's why Loras is unavailable to be Margaery's champion in a Trial by Combat in the books, because he's supposedly horribly injured from taking the place.

But in the show, Dragonstone hasn't been attacked, or if it has, it's not been mentioned, and as such, is presumably still held by men who were loyal to Stannis.

The last known orders Stannis sent to Dragonstone were to mine dragonglass/obsidian and ship it North. What's going on there now? Not a clue - for that matter, they probably don't even know that Stannis is dead.

I expect that in the show, Dragonstone will either be forgotten about, or taken by Daenerys's forces. Maybe they'll take the losses there that the Crown/Lannister/Tyrells forces did in the books.

 

2 hours ago, TheCasualObserver said:

But it's debatable what effect any of her moves actually had when you examine them critically.

Ramsay might have killed Roose because Sansa planted the idea in his head, but it's more likely that Roose's own conduct toward his son did that. And since Ramsay's legitimacy came from the iron throne and Sansa becoming his wife is proof of his split with the iron throne, did Sansa really need to say anything to make this an issue? Her passive presence should really have done the job without her needing to say anything, which is hardly a great political move.

Even if we accept that she was responsible for Ramsay killing Roose, this also makes her partly culpable in innocent Walda and baby Roose's deaths as well. And how much did killing Roose change to the plot? Nothing, he simply would have died alongside Ramsay in ep 9 instead of at Ramsay's hand in ep 4. 

Her use of "the resources and people available to win the battle" was shoddy in the extreme - a failure to inform Jon of impending reinforcements was partially responsible for hundreds dying when they didn't need to. As an example of Sansa playing the game and moving her pieces it's pretty damn poor.

Finally, LF was planning to invade the North for nearly two seasons. To what extent was Sansa's go ahead pivotal to his response? The writers might want us to think that Sansa' involvement was critical here, but that seems pretty weak sauce to me. LF can't martial all the forces of the Vale, march them hundreds of miles north in full armor and plan a way to take over of the North, and then turn them around a go home because Sansa is pissed at him. 

I just don't see the political savvy you mention at work here. How can Sansa have really learned anything if she considers the idea of LF in charge of the seven kingdoms with her at his side as a "pretty picture"? 

I love how Sansa is causing haters to lose their minds.

She's either too stupid to plot anything, or she's so evil that she used and sacrificed Jon just to get revenge on Ramsey.

Personally, I don't think Sansa was plotting much, but I do think she's preparing to get on LF's level.

1 hour ago, TheCasualObserver said:

I guess there is something to be said about leaving a foot in the door for the next time she might need him. And this is certainly an improvement from their meeting in episode 4: It's all well and good to point out what an idiot LF was and how Sansa was mistreated, but revealing your hand to an enemy whilst giving him room to maeouver is a political no no, as Ned Stark's snafoo in the godswood with Cersei proves.

That being said, I still can't say that this seems like a lesson Sansa has learned per se. She seems to be positively predisposed to LF now because he helped her at Winterfell, not because she has critically thought about her strategic position. I can't decide if it's Sophie Turner's acting or Sansa's scripting, but there's an element of simplistic cause and effect at play here. He rescues her from the Lannisters, she likes LF. She gets raped, she hates LF. He helps her out at winterfell, she likes LF, etc. 

Except she doesn't like LF right now. I think you're just mistaking a simplistic interpretation for simplistic acting/scripting.

Personally, I think Sansa is worried that LF will off Jon. However, I think she still feels like she can either learn from him, or use him somehow.

1 hour ago, TheCasualObserver said:

I think a key problem some of us have with the character is that she actually did "acquire some balance" in her life earlier in the show. At the end of season 4 she placed LF at a disadvantage (because he was relying on her to keep him cozy with the Vale lords) but kept him as an ally and secured her own position as a player within the Vale. She had taken control and gives it up instantly come season 5. This is largely because the plot required her to rather than any implication of characterization, but it still rankles. Marrying Ramsay is a profoundly stupid thing to do - stupid of LF to propose it, stupid of Sansa to agree to it. Nobody marries into their enemies for revenge.

And we aren't throwing her into the ring - she throws herself into the ring because she wants revenge on Ramsay. It is Sansa that persuades Jon to fight Ramsay and Sansa that back channels with LF the whole time. Like it or not, Sansa demonstrably is plotting again within the first few episodes of season 6... she just sucks at it. 

You're demonstrably choosing to interpret Sansa's actions as "plotting." Don't make the mistake of forcing your interpretation on intentionally vague scenes. Personally, I lean a certain way. I don't think she's plotting much, I think a lot of her actions can actually be taken at face-value. That said, I can't use the word "demonstrably," because it would be overzealous of me.

[TheCasualObserver]

21 minutes ago, ThePukwudgie said:

As far as Dragonstone goes, just read what Kytheros wrote.

As for Sansa, while I don't trust LF with Sansa, she still would have been physically safe with him.

 

I love how Sansa is causing haters to lose their minds.

She's either too stupid to plot anything, or she's so evil that she used and sacrificed Jon just to get revenge on Ramsey.

Personally, I don't think Sansa was plotting much, but I do think she's preparing to get on LF's level.

Except she doesn't like LF right now. I think you're just mistaking a simplistic interpretation for simplistic acting/scripting.

Personally, I think Sansa is worried that LF will off Jon. However, I think she still feels like she can either learn from him, or use him somehow.

You're demonstrably choosing to interpret Sansa's actions as "plotting." Don't make the mistake of forcing your interpretation on intentionally vague scenes. Personally, I lean a certain way. I don't think she's plotting much, I think a lot of her actions can actually be taken at face-value. That said, I can't use the word "demonstrably," because it would be overzealous of me.

What's the most important part of controlling a person's action? Controlling the information upon which they act. Not telling Jon about the incoming reinforcements is a clear indication of attempted intrigue. She decided not to trust Jon with the information that she had. What else am I to call it?

[Bear Claw]

59 minutes ago, Darksky said:

I will never understand why Sansa is such a popular character in the fandom. Book or show, she's a bland 'little' girl who always has to rely on others who get shit done for her. She has no skillset, well apart from sewing and lying. She is not politically savvy, is bad at numbers, has not shown any indication she'd be good at managing a household, let alone a kingdom, is wishy washy. Her role in the books is to serve as a way to look into Littlefinger.

 

She is good at managing a household. In A Feast For Crows  she prepares the rooms for a meeting of the Lords Declarant. When was she bad at numbers? I don't have the link, but on YouTube there is a video by HBO: Game of Thrones Season 4: Episode #8 A Different Purpose. GRRM tells viewers that she is  starting to learn how to play  the game.  She isn't an action hero. She is using her mind. Yes she gets others to do things, so does Baelish. 

[Winter's Cold]

2 hours ago, Bear Claw said:

She is good at managing a household. In A Feast For Crows  she prepares the rooms for a meeting of the Lords Declarant. When was she bad at numbers? I don't have the link, but on YouTube there is a video by HBO: Game of Thrones Season 4: Episode #8 A Different Purpose. GRRM tells viewers that she is  starting to learn how to play  the game.  She isn't an action hero. She is using her mind. Yes she gets others to do things, so does Baelish. 

She is not good at managing a household. Arya states that Sansa can't manage a household because she has no head for figures. There is also no indication that she has learned this skill over the rest of the series. At this point she is best suited for a position as a diplomat or an adviser. 

[Bear Claw]

20 minutes ago, Winter's Cold said:

She is not good at managing a household. Arya states that Sansa can't manage a household because she has no head for figures. There is also no indication that she has learned this skill over the rest of the series. At this point she is best suited for a position as a diplomat or an adviser. 

As Alayne in the Vale, she  oversees  preparation for the meeting of the Lords Declarant. She sees to the drinks, the food, the cleaning of the room, the lighting, and the seating. Those are house managing skills. She is also studying the sigils of each house in the Vale. She greets the Lords Declarant and serves as a kind of hostess.  That chapter really impressed me. It is one of the first times that I saw her taking on some responsibility. 

[Winter's Cold]

29 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

As Alayne in the Vale, she  oversees  preparation for the meeting of the Lords Declarant. She sees to the drinks, the food, the cleaning of the room, the lighting, and the seating. Those are house managing skills. She is also studying the sigils of each house in the Vale. She greets the Lords Declarant and serves as a kind of hostess.  That chapter really impressed me. It is one of the first times that I saw her taking on some responsibility. 

That is catering not household managing. Managing a household involves taking care of finances. She needs to know the expense of the food and drink. She needs to know how long the guests are staying and. She needs to know the household income and expenditure.

Contrast what she did in the Vale to what Jon did at the Wall. He had to make sure that the Watch had enough food to last through the winter. He had secure the finances of the Watch. He even arranges meetings with the Iron Bank to ensure this.

Jon is managing the Night's Watch. Littlefinger not Sansa is managing the Vale.

[Bear Claw]

34 minutes ago, Winter's Cold said:

That is catering not household managing. Managing a household involves taking care of finances. She needs to know the expense of the food and drink. She needs to know how long the guests are staying and. She needs to know the household income and expenditure.

Contrast what she did in the Vale to what Jon did at the Wall. He had to make sure that the Watch had enough food to last through the winter. He had secure the finances of the Watch. He even arranges meetings with the Iron Bank to ensure this.

Jon is managing the Night's Watch. Littlefinger not Sansa is managing the Vale.

To me managing means managing people and tasks. I think there is managing involved in catering also. She was planning, directing, and estimating in that chapter. Also, I have to question her lack of math skills. It is well established that she can sew really well, and sewing involves math. She is designing dresses (math). She has to know how much fabric she needs (math). She has to measure the fabric and her own measurements (math). Patterns also involve knowledge of geometry. Some stitches have to be counted.