Stranger Things (Netflix) [Spoiler Thread]

[Howdyphillip]

On 8/5/2016 at 5:21 AM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

saw this on Quora, highlights a number of the elements Stranger things 'homaged / ripped off' 

https://www.quora.com/Is-Stranger-Things-an-homage-to-the-Goonies-If-so-in-what-ways/answer/Ava-Mohsenin

You know... If the original Star Wars, E.T., or Raiders of the Lost Arc were released today, I am absolutely positive that I would be reading post after post from people trying to tear it to pieces. 

[drawkcabi]

You know one thing I thought about UD world when I initially watched the series was it was a parallel world that had gone/was going through nuclear winter.

It seemed to add up to me and I thought that may be where they were going.

UD world is mostly empty because most people have died, but that explains why the structures are all there and things written on them like people had been there, the same people in right side world.

The environment is toxic because of radiation. Radiation also caused mutation so the plants grew like that? Maybe the creature was a mutated animal or human?

The lighting and the particles in the air seemed nuclear winter-ish.

And being an 80's homage nuclear war, nuclear threat, nuclear horror, that was all a BIG part of the 80's.

 

So that's what I thought, but after the series I thought more on it and seemed less likely. It wasn't cold enough maybe. Maybe UD World is supposed to be more super natural, just a dark reflection of right side world after all, it's not going in the direction of parallel worlds and nuclear destruction.

But maybe it is, I don't know. I'm really looking forward to finding out more.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

I really liked it. I have some questions about the end but it was a really good. 

[Iskaral Pust]

After some pressure from friends, I went back to give this another try.  I'm two eps in and I'll stick with it a bit longer.

The thing that jumps out at me this early is that the central plot is an SF horror story but all the secondary plots/themes are about the fear of innocence lost: the teenage girl possibly losing her virginity, the (rare in this town and era) single mom and family broken by divorce, the single mom's crappy job in retail, the quiet low-crime small town contrasted with the dissolute big city where the police chief used to live (and his daughter died?) and where the deadbeat dad shacks up with a trashy younger woman, the disapproval of the sexual speculation by the deputy, the nerd kids banding together but bullied at school.  It's rich with nostalgia and wistfulness for a simpler, innocent era that we've lost. 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

4 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

You know one thing I thought about UD world when I initially watched the series was it was a parallel world that had gone/was going through nuclear winter.

It seemed to add up to me and I thought that may be where they were going.

UD world is mostly empty because most people have died, but that explains why the structures are all there and things written on them like people had been there, the same people in right side world.

The environment is toxic because of radiation. Radiation also caused mutation so the plants grew like that? Maybe the creature was a mutated animal or human?

The lighting and the particles in the air seemed nuclear winter-ish.

And being an 80's homage nuclear war, nuclear threat, nuclear horror, that was all a BIG part of the 80's.

 

So that's what I thought, but after the series I thought more on it and seemed less likely. It wasn't cold enough maybe. Maybe UD World is supposed to be more super natural, just a dark reflection of right side world after all, it's not going in the direction of parallel worlds and nuclear destruction.

But maybe it is, I don't know. I'm really looking forward to finding out more.

Possible, but since the UD world contains all the elements of the real world, but in a sort of negative way, I don't think thats true. Honestly I don't think there is much thought behind it other than 'its cool'

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

4 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

You know... If the original Star Wars, E.T., or Raiders of the Lost Arc were released today, I am absolutely positive that I would be reading post after post from people trying to tear it to pieces. 

Not to the same extent I don't think.

[Kyoshi]

On 04/08/2016 at 10:45 AM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Well you could say my problem is with what they didn't do, but in many ways its about the choices they had and the opportunity to make the series about something more than a standard monster horror story. The upside down world could have been something interesting, unfortunately it was merely a negatively coloured version of our own, that contained a very generic looking monster in it. 

Like I said, I don't really think there is much left to go with the concept, it really wasn't hinting at anything more interesting during the whole season, it wasn't suggesting that the upside down world is going to be any different to what we saw. The worst case scenario is that season 2 simply is a re-run with another monster, or more monsters. I think the director brothers have suggested a time jump, could be good but only if they get a bit more ambitious.

I disagree with the fundamental assessment that the show was essentially a shallow horror production that went nowhere beyond that. I personally thought it explored deeply profound themes, and that it did so beautifully and subtly, without hitting the audience over the head with its intentions. I'll use one aspect of 11's arc as an example.

Through her flashbacks, we see that the bad guys were not gentle with the experiments. There's no indication she was ever treated with the sort of false kindness one might apply with a child subject. But somehow, after she disappoints the minion bad guys and they handle her more roughly than usual, she cries for the Head Bad Guy In Charge and calls him 'Papa.' I think she thinks he might save her. We're never given any reason to believe he treats her more kindly than his minions. In fact, it is evident he is the Head Bad Guy In Charge and since we mostly see him through *her* flashbacks, it's evident she is aware of this. To me it seemed like a situation in which the victim was somewhat dependent on her abuser. It seemed that she recognised *he* was in charge and therefore the one who *could* save her, if he chose it, or if she begged enough. The name she uses for him is also revealing, I think. It complicates there relationship in that, due to her ophan state, he becomes the closest thing she has to a parent. When she meets Mike and his friends she doesn't know what a friend is, they have to explain this to her. From this, I wondered if she truly understood the concept of a parent and how the dynamics of a normal parent-child relationship typically present. EDIT: The bad guys don't even give her a name, they address her by her brand, which I'm supposing is linked to he place in their experiments. But Mike immediately tries to "humanise" the name by calling her El.

One scene that stood out to me was when she was placed in the sensory deprivation tank at the school. Joyce is very kind to 11 in that scene, she holds her and tells 11 that she (Joyce) will be right there throughout the whole thing. Even afterwards, she shows concern for the obviously distressed 11.

Compare that scene to when Head Bad Guy In Charge placed 11 in *his* tank. He told her this [paraphrased because I haven't rewatched]: "Today we make history, we make first contact." That's all. There's is no acknowledgement of her fears, nor is there concern for her safety. There is only his excitement of scientific discovery and that's where it ends.

Unsurprisingly, with Joyce, 11 is somewhat more complicit in the process.

Finally, 11 always refers to the bad guys as bad men. In my opinion (and I hope, as is supported by what I've already written), this title doesn't necessarily include the man she calls Papa. I think it more refers to his minions. I think it's only after she's gone through her whole arc, after she's learnt about friendship and been shown kindness by Joyce, that she realises something was fundamentally wrong in her relationship with Head Bad Guy In Charge. So in the end she rejects him and finally includes him in her idea of bad men. She does this by literally telling him so in their last meeting. He even looks shocked when she says to him--"bad."

EDIT: I found this to be an incredibly well written and executed arc for the character, especially since she hardly says anything. There is parenthood in there, friendship and basic humanity. And I was left wondering: if the Head Bad Guy In Charge and his minions had been kinder to 11, would she have escaped after the first contact, would she have rejected him in the end or simply been his ignorant, yet loyal subject? I know she must escape in order to befriend the boys, but she might have not stayed away after the boys rejected her and she wandered the town again. The final scene might have happened differently, but because their relationship (11 and the boys *and* 11 and Head Bad Guy In Charge) developed the way it did, as did the final scene.

In a nutshell, I think it's ok to critique a show and find things that are wrong with it. But I also think you perhaps dismissed it a bit prematurely and that once you did that, you simply refused to consider any of its positive qualities.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

@Kyoshi

I understand your points, and I don't think Stranger things was a totally shallow production, however I don't think it was especially deep or clever either. The points you raise about 11 are pretty true, however it depends on your perspective. To me those elements are nothing surprising or anything I wouldn't expect to see in a bog standard Xmen movie for instance. While the relationship with her 'papa' was on a surface level interesting, it certainly wasn't explored in any great depth, and actually he was very little more than a generic evil scientist archetype. 

I think it just a difference of opinion, the points you mentioned to me are not in anyway anything original or clever, merely the most basic way of telling that storyline. Most of the characters are not especially fleshed out and the whole show was to me , just a fun story that borrowed heavily on a number of standard 80's tropes. It was good entertainment but I don't see its anything above that.

[Kyoshi]

Yeah, I guess we'll never agree on this.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

On 8/4/2016 at 5:01 PM, Guess who's back said:

So how exactly did they get out of the Government territory in the end? These guys looked so serious at the beginning of show and by each episode became more and more like cartoons. Are we really to believe that they would just let them go, that they would not search the boy and find what ever the hell that thing is in his body?

Also this monster is capable of killing trained soldiers that are shooting full rounds in it's body, but a teenager with a bat can beat him? lmao...

Yeah, it's been only a month since Will was rescued by the end of the episode, so I'm guessing it was public scrutiny on the research lab that made them back off. Plus a lot of the people in charge of that place and its security are dead now. Side note, if Will has been coughing those things into the sink for a few weeks now, what's the sewers of Hawkins looking like?

The bullets not slowing the monster in the least in that finale felt like an excuse to set up 11 for the ultimate sacrifice. I'll forgive it since it paid off in such an awesome fashion. However, you could technically say the monster grew stronger as it fed on more people and animals from our dimension and that's what led to it's increased invulnerability. 

[Durckad]

23 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

The bullets not slowing the monster in the least in that finale felt like an excuse to set up 11 for the ultimate sacrifice. I'll forgive it since it paid off in such an awesome fashion. However, you could technically say the monster grew stronger as it fed on more people and animals from our dimension and that's what led to it's increased invulnerability. 

This one is easy to explain. The monster is immune to all but +1 weapons (it is Demogorgon after all!). Those guns, though clearly well made, were not enchanted. El (magic), the fire (elemental damage), and Jonathon's spiky bat (obviously dweomered by a wizard in a deleted scene!) are the only things that manage to hurt the monster. Even the bear trap just slows it down long enough to light it on fire, but doesn't really hurt it.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Ok so the only way I can see the 'Monster' being a good addition to the story and for it to make sense would be for 11 to have created to subconsciously, or that its a part of her in some way, which is why she can hurt it or destroy and nobody else can. Thats the only good explanation I can think of as to why there is nothing else in the UD realm except him. If that wasn't the case it opens up a whole bunch of questions of the show that I really don't think it could ever answer in a satisfactory way.

[mormont]

I binge-watched this entire series on Sunday (I was unexpectedly free...)

Really enjoyed it (obviously). It's not perfect, and going in I was sceptical about the nostalgia element: in fact, that's why I hadn't watched it before. I'm not a big one for media that rely on nostalgia for appeal. But in this case, the nostalgia is really only a bonus element - the series doesn't use it as a crutch. The series isn't perfect and yes, there are some plot holes - but the performances are amazing, and the whole thing is put together just really, really well. Loved it.

Millie Bobby Brown in particular is astonishingly good. It's worth watching just for her.

[Xray the Enforcer]

I finally got a chance to watch this and I loved it. 

[PetyrPunkinhead]

On 8/8/2016 at 9:37 PM, Durckad said:

This one is easy to explain. The monster is immune to all but +1 weapons (it is Demogorgon after all!). Those guns, though clearly well made, were not enchanted. El (magic), the fire (elemental damage), and Jonathon's spiky bat (obviously dweomered by a wizard in a deleted scene!) are the only things that manage to hurt the monster. Even the bear trap just slows it down long enough to light it on fire, but doesn't really hurt it.

Ahha! Enchantment! Is this why Daryl is so badass in The Walking Dead--his crossbow is enchanted?

[SpaceChampion]

Aaron Paul chats with Millie Bobby Brown.  He seems like an enthusiastic puppy.

Quote

Now, Eleven is able to move things with her mind. Have you ever tried to do that yourself?

Oh, yes. All the time.

Me too!

and then

Quote

Have you heard anything about season two? Please tell me everything.

I'm gonna tell you everything...I've heard nothing. [Laughs] You know Netflix. We haven't had an official announcement yet. The Duffer brothers are open-minded. They're geniuses. I would love [a second season]. I think all of us would. Listen, if I know, you'll be the first one to know.

Will you please track me down and let me know?

So I've got an idea: You have Twitter, right?

Yes.

Okay, so I have Twitter. As soon as the Duffers tell me, I'll private message you. And I'm in L.A. in two weeks and we can go out for dinner.

DO NOT TEASE ME! Don't toy with my emotions, Millie. I just followed you on Twitter.

I'm deadly serious, Aaron. Deadly serious.

Please follow me back. Make my life complete.

Yes, of course! We can go to In-N-Out.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 Making the case for Stranger Things as an anthology...

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/08/16/stranger-things-season-2-anthology?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

Not sure that citing American Horror Story or True Detective is going to make your case for you though. Loved the first season of each of those shows, but could leave everything else.

 

[RumHam]

4 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Making the case for Stranger Things as an anthology...

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/08/16/stranger-things-season-2-anthology?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

Not sure that citing American Horror Story or True Detective is going to make your case for you though. Loved the first season of each of those shows, but could leave everything else.

 

He's not wrong, but I think something special would be lost if they abandoned the cast, Brown especially, for something new. Normally I'd say they should take a page from The Wire and do a seemingly unrelated second season that ultimately ties into the first. (which incidentally, True Detective may also be doing, if it ever returns.) The problem is the kids are going to start hitting grown spurts soon. Also since they left two obvious hooks for season two, I think they should follow up on them. 

American Horror Story was just not good after season one. Even season one isn't that great when you go back and watch it. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 hours ago, RumHam said:

American Horror Story was just not good after season one. Even season one isn't that great when you go back and watch it. 

 I still dig season one. It was really pretty unique television methinks. It seemed to go progressively further and further off the rails with each consecutive season however.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Finished this last night. Absolutely loved it. 

My only gripe was that Hopper sold out Eleven in the end. Thought it was out of character of him in two regards- one, losing his daughter is such a huge part of his characterization that it felt wrong for him to not be very protective of this girl whose suffering he has some sense of from his investigation (she, and not Will, has more obvious parallels to Hopper's daughter). Two, it's a dumb move. He's so sharp throughout and then he decides he can trust the baddies to leave the boys and everyone else alone in exchange for El? I guess maybe it would have worked out that way if things had gone to plan instead of going nuts, but I don't buy it.