Had Rhaegar lived but Dany had the dragons...

[Bruzie77]

Would would have been rulers then? Would DAnerys be considered a Blackfyre if the three dragons only listened to her OR would Rhaegar had to concede the throne to her? Would he have her killed to take over the dragons himself?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

35 minutes ago, Bruzie77 said:

Would DAnerys be considered a Blackfyre

Why?

35 minutes ago, Bruzie77 said:

OR would Rhaegar had to concede the throne to her?

Again why?

 

If Rhaegar was alive and the King Dany wouldn't had married to Drogo and she wouldn't had the eggs as a gift. In any case the dragons have nothing to do with who is the King and who is capable  of being the King.

[tugela]

Rhaegar was the heir. Firstly, because he was Aerys's eldest, and secondly because he was a son. Succession would have been Aerys....Rhaegar....Aegon....Viserys....Robert....Joeffrey....Tommen....Stannis....Renly....Shireen....Myrcella....Rhaenys....Daenerys....Rhaella (assuming that everyone was still alive at the current time and that males took priority in inheriting titles). Things become a little murky with the women because it is hard to say who would have priority, for example the last king, or the king with the most direct blood lines? Arranging it based on who's father was the most recent king gives the list as above.

[Curled Finger]

Just supposing it came down exactly as you say @Bruzie77.   Rhaegar is King.   Dany is Princess.  Dany's ability to hatch dragons wouldn't make her a Blackfyre.  The Blackfyres were a branch of legitimized bastard Targs whereas Dany is fully royal legitimate bloodline, all Targ, all day.   Many kings tried to bring dragons back and failed miserably.    Not all Targs were able to hatch dragons, certainly no Targ King in recent memory.   I get where you're going with the idea, but it's not right.   Rhaegar would have no doubt been extremely happy that Dany could hatch dragons if she was able to produce them during his reign.  He could have maybe even ridden one of her dragons!  

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

1 hour ago, tugela said:

Rhaegar was the heir. Firstly, because he was Aerys's eldest, and secondly because he was a son. Succession would have been Aerys....Rhaegar....Aegon....Viserys....Robert....Joeffrey....Tommen....Stannis....Renly....Shireen....Myrcella....Rhaenys....Daenerys....Rhaella (assuming that everyone was still alive at the current time and that males took priority in inheriting titles). Things become a little murky with the women because it is hard to say who would have priority, for example the last king, or the king with the most direct blood lines? Arranging it based on who's father was the most recent king gives the list as above.

I'm guessing that if Rhaegar would be alive,  Robert would be dead. There were also many more directly related people from other houses (such as Velaryon),  but they fought for the targs during Roberts Rebellion, so if the targs had won,  many would come before The Baratheons in the line of succession. Rhaenys comes after Aegon, then Viserys. Daenarys and Rhaella would come after Viserys. Then further away relatives.

This is how it works: oldest son first, then younger sons, then daughters. When you're out of children, you try siblings ; brothers first, then sisters. After this it gets more complicated, because you have to try aunts and uncles. Since Rhaella was also Aerys's sister, she'd be next in line as an aunt I guess...

Then there's a lot of houses who married with targs much more recently than the Baratheons, who would come after that 

Robert would have the same chance of getting the Iron Throne as Walder Frey's youngest bastard great granddaughter of the youngest daughter of his youngest daughter has to rule the twins.

[purple-eyes]

if rhaegar is alive and king, then elia is his queen and aegon is crown prince with rhaenys as his future wife. dany will likely marry viserys due to their customs. if dany still manages to hatch three dragons, i think rhaegar, dany and viserys would likely be three dragon riders. kind of like aegon and his sisters. 

[Light a wight tonight]

46 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

if rhaegar is alive and king, then elia is his queen and aegon is crown prince with rhaenys as his future wife. dany will likely marry viserys due to their customs. if dany still manages to hatch three dragons, i think rhaegar, dany and viserys would likely be three dragon riders. kind of like aegon and his sisters. 

Something like this. A dragon can have more than one rider, but a rider can have only one dragon. Dany may have had Drogon but not the other two.

The better question is where Dany would have gotten the dragon eggs to hatch.

 

[redtree]

If in this scenario Dany is the rider of the largest dragon then she'd be married to Aegon not Viserys, it'll be more useful for a king to use a big dragon

[purple-eyes]

1 hour ago, redtree said:

If in this scenario Dany is the rider of the largest dragon then she'd be married to Aegon not Viserys, it'll be more useful for a king to use a big dragon

or rhaegar will pick up their old dragon-custom and marry dany as his second wife. 

then likely three riders will be rhaegar, dany and aegon. viserys may be married to dorne or reach. 

[purple-eyes]

1 hour ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Something like this. A dragon can have more than one rider, but a rider can have only one dragon. Dany may have had Drogon but not the other two.

The better question is where Dany would have gotten the dragon eggs to hatch.

 

dany is destined by GRRM to hatch those eggs. so i guess he can make up some other ways: dany finds them on ds, rhaegar buys them oversea, or some merchant gives as gift...

[House Beaudreau]

LETS GO CRAZY!!!!!! 

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO PICK ANY OF THIS APART. haha

I guess this hypothetical scenario is the one where there is no Robert's Rebellion because Rhaegar doesn't kidnap Lyanna but instead takes over for Aerys II after Harrenhal or Aerys would have eventually died and Rhaegar becomes king. Dany eventually hatches dragons but not until she is a teenager (same age as in GRRM's version) meaning she becomes super important powerful Targaryen gene carrier.        

I have to disagree with most of the Marriages that people have purposed on this thread but only because the whole world would be different. 

 1. Rhaegar would be pretty old by the time Dany reached marriage age.  Rhaegar already has his male heir when baby Aegon is born so the idea of Rhaegar taking a second wife while Ellia still lives is out. And if Ellia dies likely when giving Rheagar a third, let's say for convenience sake a stillborn child then Rheagar would remarry after and it would probably be to Cersi since Robert would have married Lyanna and Dany would still be too young and has not hatched dragons yet, revealing herself to be almighty.

2.Baby Aegon and little Rhaenys would probably be betrothed to each other. This makes the most sense to me considering the Targaryen custom and Rhaegar's thing with the prince that was promised prophecy. 

3. Viserys would be 4th heir after Rhaenys but Viserys marrying anyone would have been very very dangerous to the Targaryens. His marriage to anyone in any house would have created a cousin/minor branch of the trueborn Targaryens. Not Bastards, Not pretenders in any way. The sons of Viserys would trace blood back to Aegon the Conqueror just as easily as the sons of Rhaegar. The Targaryens have already learned once what two many heirs can lead too. Plus Viserys obviously had the sadistic Targaryen gene. Rhaegar would see this and Viserys would be trained to be King's Guard or a Maester or sent to the Nights watch or Killed off in some tragic accident so that his bad genes don't get past on. 

4. Dany would be 5th heir after Viserys but not super important until she hatches dragons. She would most likely have already been betrothed by this time to an important house because the Targaryens are pretty fond of doing this with younger daughters that don't marry their brothers. Possible Canidates for a Dany marriage are now any of the Tyrell sons, Robert and Lyanna's son, Brandon Stark and Catlin Tully's son, Quentyn martell, Edmure Tully, Tyrek Lannister or any of Kevin's sons, Tyrion, Sweet Robin(fuck ya), Who knows?

5. However, once Dany hatches the eggs and becomes the Mother of Dragons, King Rhaegar would see the importance of her genes and have to get the High Septon to set aside the betrothals, so that Prince Aegon could marry Dany instead of Rhaenys. I see the High Septon probably refusing because the Faith have always wanted the dragon genes to die out. King Rhaegar breaks the Betrothals anyways

7.King Rhaegar insults the House that Dany was Betrothed to by breaking up the marriage, Lets say to the Tyrells. Causing a War between the Reach and the Crownlands with the Reach backed up by the Faith of the Seven. The Stormlands declare for the Rebellion side hoping to put Robert Baratheon on the Iron throne because of his distant Targaryen Blood. Because Robert joins the Rebellion, his friend Ned Stark convinces Lord Brandon Stark of Winterfell to join the Rebels to defend Lyanna, causing the Tullys and Arryns to Join in against the Targaryens, the Dornish and maybe the Lannisters. Basically the Whole rebellion could and would still happen eventually against the Targaryens. 

8. Except this time the Targaryens would have Dragons assuming that they were able to draw out the listed events above, and the Dragons were able to grow large enough to ride. Dany would for sure get one of the Dragons, Prince Aegon would get one as future king and King Rhaegar would get one as King. They would burn the Rebellion down to nothing killing off entire Major Houses with their lands to be claim by the winners and those that stayed loyal. Tyrells gone, the Reach is given to the Redwynes? Baratheons gone, the Stormlands are given to the Conningtons, Hopefully a male Stark survives so the North has someone to follow because the North has problems with any other Lords, Sweet robin bends the knee and the Arryns keep the Vale. The Dornish are given tons of new land in from the Reach and Stormlands, the Westermen are given lots of Lands from the Riverlands. 

9. Jon Snow is never born and ice zombies come and kill everyone with a pulse and no one can ever stop the long night..... end of the world!!!! 

Jesus, WOW if you really got all the way through this I applaud BUT this was all meant to be satire. Considering the Amazing story GRRM has given us,Rhaegar surviving changes everything about the World. Is this really how we want to spend our time, talking about the world that could never be? 

Or should we be talking about things that really matter like where are the Lemon trees really at from Dany's childhood ? or Where is Benjen Stark?                        

[tugela]

8 hours ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

I'm guessing that if Rhaegar would be alive,  Robert would be dead. There were also many more directly related people from other houses (such as Velaryon),  but they fought for the targs during Roberts Rebellion, so if the targs had won,  many would come before The Baratheons in the line of succession. Rhaenys comes after Aegon, then Viserys. Daenarys and Rhaella would come after Viserys. Then further away relatives.

This is how it works: oldest son first, then younger sons, then daughters. When you're out of children, you try siblings ; brothers first, then sisters. After this it gets more complicated, because you have to try aunts and uncles. Since Rhaella was also Aerys's sister, she'd be next in line as an aunt I guess...

Then there's a lot of houses who married with targs much more recently than the Baratheons, who would come after that 

Robert would have the same chance of getting the Iron Throne as Walder Frey's youngest bastard great granddaughter of the youngest daughter of his youngest daughter has to rule the twins.

No. In medieval society males come before females, even if they are more distantly related. For example, When Henry I died, his daughter Maltida did not inherit the throne, instead his nephew did, The first female who was allowed to inherit the throne was Mary.

Since the dance of Dragons the Targaryens placed males ahead of females, no matter how distant. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Targaryen

Quote

Since the Dance, House Targaryen has practiced a highly modified version of agnatic primogeniture, placing female claimants in the line of succession behind all possible male ones, even collateral relations.

So, Daenerys was never going to inherit the throne, there were other claimants ahead of her and certainly Robert had a better claim than she did. After Aegon V, the male descendants would have come first through Aerys, and after those, through House Baratheon, since Aegon's daughter Rhaelle married Ormund Baratheon, Robert's grandfather. Other males might have descended from Targaryens that branched off prior to Aegon V, but they would come behind the male Baratheons in succession.

Robert would have come after Aegon in the line of succession. His rebellion eliminated all of the claimants who were ahead of him.

Incidentally, I notice that Aegon V's mother was a Dayne....that may have been what the tragedy at Summerhall was about...he thought he was the prince that was promised because he was the product of a Targaryen and a Dayne.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

58 minutes ago, tugela said:

No. In medieval society males come before females, even if they are more distantly related. For example, When Henry I died, his daughter Maltida did not inherit the throne, instead his nephew did, The first female who was allowed to inherit the throne was Mary.

Since the dance of Dragons the Targaryens placed males ahead of females, no matter how distant. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Targaryen

So, Daenerys was never going to inherit the throne, there were other claimants ahead of her and certainly Robert had a better claim than she did. After Aegon V, the male descendants would have come first through Aerys, and after those, through House Baratheon, since Aegon's daughter Rhaelle married Ormund Baratheon, Robert's grandfather. Other males might have descended from Targaryens that branched off prior to Aegon V, but they would come behind the male Baratheons in succession.

Robert would have come after Aegon in the line of succession. His rebellion eliminated all of the claimants who were ahead of him.

Incidentally, I notice that Aegon V's mother was a Dayne....that may have been what the tragedy at Summerhall was about...he thought he was the prince that was promised because he was the product of a Targaryen and a Dayne.

That might have been what happened, but that's not how it officially works in Westeros. Everytime a female heir was passed over,  this caused problems, because basically it's against the rules.

If something is against the law, but still everyone does it,  that doesn't mean it's not against the law anymore. 

[redtree]

4 hours ago, tugela said:

Since the dance of Dragons the Targaryens placed males ahead of females, no matter how distant. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Targaryen

Targaryen male not non-Targ male, if what you said is true that no matter how distant, then i supposed a male of house plumm or house martell has stronger claim compared to Dany. Why stop at Robert, Stannis and Renly ?
And btw Robert,Stannis and Renly are descendants of female Targaryen, looking at the great council's result, they shouldn't be in line either

[shockwave]

On 16-7-2016 at 0:18 PM, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

That might have been what happened, but that's not how it officially works in Westeros. Everytime a female heir was passed over,  this caused problems, because basically it's against the rules.

If something is against the law, but still everyone does it,  that doesn't mean it's not against the law anymore. 

female heirs passed over:

Rhaenys: lead to Viserys I and his succession wars

Rhaenyra: dance of the dragons

Daena: Aegon the Unworthy and blackfyre rebellions

[blckp]

Daenerys would be ruler instead of Rhaegar, Dragons claim > all other pretty claim

 

Daenerys - don't like it? come at me bro

[devilish]

Lets say Rhaegar stayed at the tower of joy where Lyanna died. Not being a self righteous prick like Sir Arthur Dayne was he would allow Eddard to visit his sister without the bloodshed. Lyanna's 'promise me Ned' would also include Rhaegar to remain alive. Eddard being Eddard will adopt Lyanna's son and Rhaegar will be allowed to flee to Essos were he meet his siblings. 

Rhaegar would probably join the Golden Company were his charisma and his nobility will make sure he goes quickly up the ranks. Viserys will receive military training and would be less of an Ahole and Danny will live a happier life. Rhaegar is more versed to the Westerosi way than Viserys was which means it wouldnt be difficult for him to keep diplomatic ties with some of the houses. The Tyrells ended up  worse off having to pay for Robert's debts but with no son/daughter mixing to royal family. The Martells will probably be pissed off with Rhaegar for cuckolding Elia but that is nothing compared to what the new King's father in law did. Rhaegar will make sure to cuddle those house a bit.

I can’t see Rhaegar marrying off Danny to a Dothraki warlord which means she will never have access to the dragon eggs.  Rhaegar will probably promise to marry Margaery Tyrell with Viserys marrying Arrianne to make sure he has those two houses at his side. However to keep to the subject, in this time line Danny still receives those eggs and she does manage to hatch them. Under such circumstances Rhaegar will make sure to stay low and train Viserys, Danny and himself to become dragon riders while hiding under the protection of the golden company

As said he will keep tabs with the Tyrells and the Martells which means that strengthened by Rhaegar's promise that they will mingle with royal family will remain neutral throughout the war of 5 kings. Renly will probably remain.  Renly will remain in the Stormlands until his brother confronts him and kill him. Robb on the other hand will return to the North to defeat the Iron islanders which will give Tywin the time to regroup and deal with Stannis securing the crown. (Without the Tyrells Tywin simply doesn’t have the military clout to convince Walder to kickstart the red Wedding) This will leave a scenario similar to pre Aerys times with most regions being independent apart from the Crownlands and the Westerlands (ruled by the Lannister king) and the Riverlands & the North (ruled by Robb).

Once the dragons are old enough it would be time for Rhaegar to strike. He would land with a 10k army (Golden Company) in Dorne.  Their army will join the Dornish and Tyrells forces sending shivers in Joffrey’s spine. Rhaegar will probably learn from his mistake of underestimating a weaker enemy. On that regard he would send ravens to Robb, revealing the truth about Jon Snow . Considering the Targs past, they will have to bend over backwards to get the North support.  That would include Joffrey’s and Theon’s heads, the lordship of the Stormlands to Jon Snow, the Lordship of the Iron islands to Bran once the boy comes to age and is able to marry Asha and the marriage between Jon and Danny + the marriage between Robb’s first daughter to Rhaegar’s first trueborn son if that ever happens. . Robb would rally the troops and the Lannisters would be overwhelmed by the combined and superior forces.

The Lannisters would be crushed and the main branch massacred (Tywin, Tyrion, the twins and their offspring). Kevan and his children will be spared and his daughter Janei will marry Viserys would will in turn become Lord Paramount of the Westerlands.

[Jaak]

The Targaryens seem to treat dragons as oddly unimportant considering their background from Valyrian Freehold.

 

Viserys I was the rider of Balerion... till it died. Yet in 101, after Baelon died (did Baelon have a dragon? Which one?), Viserys, still dragonless, was elected as heir... over Rhaenys and Laenor who did have dragons. Afterwards Viserys I seems to have acted as absolute monarch and have been regarded as such by his advisers... like commanding Daemon to return Mhysaria´s dragon egg or be declared a traitor. By what dragon? At that point (106 or so), Rhaenyra was 9. The only adult dragonrider besides Daemon was Rhaenys, and she had the perfect excuse of being a woman to refuse to fight for the man who was sitting her throne. Basically, neither Viserys nor his advisors ever express a concern about possibility of Daemon, Velaryons or Rhaenyra joining a rebellion on dragonback.

And later on, Aegon III was dragonless after Stormcloud died. And Rhaena was the lady of Morning. Was Rhaena, as a dragonowner which Aegon and Viserys were not, treated to influence due to her?

After dragons were gone from the world, there was a feeling they were important. At Whitewalls, Dunk concluded that if the dragon egg were to hatch, men would rally to anyone who had a dragon. It would have been funny if the dragon egg hatched for the bride - Lady Frey - and Bloodraven´s army of thousands made an about-face to declare as their Queen a slutty fifteen year old girl from an upstart family, solely because she has the only dragon in the world, not ridable for years...

So: if Daenerys hatched dragons, and three of them, how would Aerys and Rhaegaer have treated her?

[Protagoras]

Considering that Daenerys will bring back the long lost dragons to the Targaryens, the symbols of the house, she will be seen as the scion of house Targaryen. Her claim won´t be stronger, except by largest-army-diplomacy, aka what really mattered back in the english medieval times

In short, you want this person very, very happy or Daenerys will rewrite those succession-rules with your blood. Sure, you could isolate her from the dragons early, but that would risk the future of the house and nothing - not even laws and edicts, should stand in the way for that from a House perspective.

As minimum, I see a dissolution of the Rhaegar-Elia marriage, making Daenerys queen instead and while Rhaegar might rule on paper, the true power will be at her. There will be no scenario where Daenerys will be married way to another family since the dragons.

 

 

[TheWhiteDevil]

The Targaryen with the Dragons is the True Dragon, imho

The True Dragon has the best claim, again imho