One-eyed Misbehavin Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 After failing rhaegar/cersei Jamie/Lysa Why not reattempt Oberyn/cersei cersei/ned or he himself marry the queen of thrones until she died. Put the pressure back on Aerys. He got lucky during the rebellion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hos the Hostage Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 He never gave up on a Targaryen husband for Cersei (Aerys could die or change mind). Tywin did consider Oberyn/Cersei, but too late - much too late, after Joffrey's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrod Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 On 7/18/2016 at 0:04 PM, One-eyed Misbehavin said: After failing rhaegar/cersei Jamie/Lysa Why not reattempt Oberyn/cersei cersei/ned or he himself marry the queen of thrones until she died. Put the pressure back on Aerys. He got lucky during the rebellion Cersei/Ned wouldn't have worked. Ned was only the heir to Winterfell after his father and brother were killed, and he pretty much decided immediately to marry the woman his brother was supposed to out of honor for the family. As far as Tywin marrying Olenna, there really wouldn't be anything for him to gain. They weren't going to have anymore children together, he was already the richest probably most powerful houses in Westeros. No need for him to marry again (especially since by all accounts losing his wife really hurt/changed him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ckram Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 About Cersei: Their father had summoned Cersei to court when she was twelve, hoping to make her a royal marriage. He refused every offer for her hand, preferring to keep her with him in the Tower of the Hand while she grew older and more womanly and ever more beautiful. No doubt he was waiting for Prince Viserys to mature, or perhaps for Rhaegar’s wife to die in childbed. Elia of Dorne was never the healthiest of women. (aSoS, Jaime II) Tywin married for love. He was a devoted husband. He hated the son who 'killed' his wife at birth. Doesn't sound like a guy who would remarry based on political interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 On 18/7/2016 at 8:04 PM, One-eyed Misbehavin said: cersei/ned Why he should marry his stunning daughter to the second son of a poor and austere North. Oberyn/cersei Again, Oberyn was just the second son and Tywin would had married his daughter to the most eligible and prestigious groom he could find. A second son is just a servant. On 18/7/2016 at 8:04 PM, One-eyed Misbehavin said: himself marry the queen of thrones Olenna was almost 20 years his senior and she couldn't produce more heirs so she wouldn't had been useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eyed Misbehavin Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 5 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Why he should marry his stunning daughter to the second son of a poor and austere North. Again, Oberyn was just the second son and Tywin would had married his daughter to the most eligible and prestigious groom he could find. A second son is just a servant. Olenna was almost 20 years his senior and she couldn't produce more heirs so she wouldn't had been useful. Yeah I know I meant Brandon but I wasn't sure when he was bethroned. Its mostly about putting the pressure back on Aerys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 On 18/07/2016 at 6:04 PM, One-eyed Misbehavin said: After failing rhaegar/cersei Jamie/Lysa Why not reattempt Oberyn/cersei cersei/ned or he himself marry the queen of thrones until she died. Put the pressure back on Aerys. He got lucky during the rebellion What pressure? Aerys was the King and before he and his son alienated half the Great Lords of the Realm were comfortably in control. There was not a lot Tywin could have done to pressure him, all he could do was retire as his Hand and hope that his successors showed Aerys Tywin's true value. Neither Oberyn or Ned, second sons, would be the kind of match that Tywin would want for Cersei. Their realms were both pretty far away the Westerlands to make an excellent alliance. Cersei would be better of marrying a Lord or actual heir to a closer but 'lesser' House, which would guarantee that his grandchildren would one day have their own lands to rule. Edmure Tully, Baelor Hightower or Andar Royce (if he was still single) would all be superior matches. Marrying Olenna is a complete non starter, a pointless marriage that would not be able to produce heirs. I'm not even sure that Olenna would agree to it, she likely wielded more power as the Matriarch of the Tyrells as she would have been as Tywin's spouse. Not sure how Tywin got lucky in the Rebellion. He hedged his bets, whichever side he supported would have won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 3 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said: Not sure how Tywin got lucky in the Rebellion. He hedged his bets, whichever side he supported would have won. He got lucky in the sense that his son betrayed his king, thus not burning to death with the rest of KL and his army. Even assuming Tywin was not in the city the guy would have lost most of his army and his favorite son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eyed Misbehavin Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 6 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said: What pressure? Aerys was the King and before he and his son alienated half the Great Lords of the Realm were comfortably in control. There was not a lot Tywin could have done to pressure him, all he could do was retire as his Hand and hope that his successors showed Aerys Tywin's true value. Neither Oberyn or Ned, second sons, would be the kind of match that Tywin would want for Cersei. Their realms were both pretty far away the Westerlands to make an excellent alliance. Cersei would be better of marrying a Lord or actual heir to a closer but 'lesser' House, which would guarantee that his grandchildren would one day have their own lands to rule. Edmure Tully, Baelor Hightower or Andar Royce (if he was still single) would all be superior matches. Marrying Olenna is a complete non starter, a pointless marriage that would not be able to produce heirs. I'm not even sure that Olenna would agree to it, she likely wielded more power as the Matriarch of the Tyrells as she would have been as Tywin's spouse. Not sure how Tywin got lucky in the Rebellion. He hedged his bets, whichever side he supported would have won. No way to know that. Pure speculation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 4 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said: No way to know that. Pure speculation Sure, the majority of things posted on here are pure speculation. This thread is a speculative one. But yes, we can safely predict that Tywin, with his untouched Westerland army, was in a position to be the game changer. Had he supported the Crown and fought with Rhaegar the Targaryens would have won. He choose the rebels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garett Hornwood Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Personally, I think Tywin's greatest marriage mistake was not agreeing to the Jaime/Elia match when the Princess of Dorne visited the Rock. I've seen the arguments against this opinion: Dorne doesn't border the Westerlands like the Riverlands, it's one of the poorer kingdoms, etc. But here are somethings to remember: Elia is a PRINCESS, only two families have that prestigious title and in Westeros prestige counts for a lot Elia is 2nd-in-line to rule Dorne because of Dornish custom, Doran at the time doesn't have children nor is married so there is the potential of one of Tywin's grandchildren being the Prince/ss of Dorne And most importantly for Tywin, with Elia can't marry Rhaegar who remains single with Aerys not getting any younger and he's running out of options... Again just my personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raisin' Bran Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 On 8/6/2016 at 6:48 PM, Garett Hornwood said: Personally, I think Tywin's greatest marriage mistake was not agreeing to the Jaime/Elia match when the Princess of Dorne visited the Rock. I've seen the arguments against this opinion: Dorne doesn't border the Westerlands like the Riverlands, it's one of the poorer kingdoms, etc. But here are somethings to remember: Elia is a PRINCESS, only two families have that prestigious title and in Westeros prestige counts for a lot Elia is 2nd-in-line to rule Dorne because of Dornish custom, Doran at the time doesn't have children nor is married so there is the potential of one of Tywin's grandchildren being the Prince/ss of Dorne And most importantly for Tywin, with Elia can't marry Rhaegar who remains single with Aerys not getting any younger and he's running out of options... Again just my personal opinion. I think I have another point in favor of the Jaime/Elia match, which runs contradictory to the whole sharing borders argument. In the event of war with the Reach/Tyrells/Highgarden, Dorne and Westerlands can attack both borders, requiring the Reach to maintain a two-front campaign, dividing their forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 The On 19/07/2016 at 8:49 PM, Ckram said: About Cersei: Their father had summoned Cersei to court when she was twelve, hoping to make her a royal marriage. He refused every offer for her hand, preferring to keep her with him in the Tower of the Hand while she grew older and more womanly and ever more beautiful. No doubt he was waiting for Prince Viserys to mature, or perhaps for Rhaegar’s wife to die in childbed. Elia of Dorne was never the healthiest of women. (aSoS, Jaime II) i think this points out Tywins most fatal flaw; his refusal to consider a "Plan B" in any scenario. Cersei was going to be a Queen, dammit! Even if every member of their royal family was already married! Jaime was going to succeed him as Head of House Lannister, no matter if his position as King's Guard kept him from inheriting. Etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garett Hornwood Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 6 hours ago, Raisin(g) Bran 2 Greenseer said: I think I have another point in favor of the Jaime/Elia match, which runs contradictory to the whole sharing borders argument. In the event of war with the Reach/Tyrells/Highgarden, Dorne and Westerlands can attack both borders, requiring the Reach to maintain a two-front campaign, dividing their forces. I also used that as well as one of my points in earlier arguments and it became annoying circular as then someone would say "Why would Lannisters fight the Tyrells?" etc., so I posted what I would view as points that favored Tywin's main motivation--The image of House Lannister within the realm. 5 hours ago, Orphalesion said: I think this points out Tywins most fatal flaw; his refusal to consider a "Plan B" in any scenario. Cersei was going to be a Queen, dammit! Even if every member of their royal family was already married! Jaime was going to succeed him as Head of House Lannister, no matter if his position as King's Guard kept him from inheriting. Etc. etc. If Tywin didn't have a "Plan B" he should have done everything to make sure "Plan A" happened, which included removing any obstacles in the path of it happening that didn't result in all of Westeros attacking your House at the same time. And given how he coordinated the Freys, Bolton, and Lady Sybelle he knows that little details can work to make his bigger goals happen. That's why Tywin's insult to the Princess of Dorne is so unlike what we know of him, through it was being relayed to us by Oberyn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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