Emie Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 With so much speculation and clues throughout the books and of course theories all over the internet, it's more than likely that Young Griff is actually not the real Aegon, son of Rhaegar and Elia. The three main theories I've noticed are that he's really a Blackfyre descendant, or the son of Illyrio Mopatis, whose wife was a Blackfyre, or just a random boy with the right age and look who is basically a pawn for other people's schemes. But the one thing I've wondered about for quite a while ever since I've read the tales of Dunk and Egg, is what ever happened to Aerion "Brightflame's" son, Maegor. We all know that during the Great Counsil, they were trying to decide the next heir and they passed over baby Maegor in fear that he might inherit his late father's madness, and that it could be bad luck with his name being the same as Maegor the Cruel. So ever since reading about that I've always wondered what became of him and whether or not he's even still alive during ASOIAF series. But now I've been wondering if Young Griff might actually be either the son or grandson of Maegor Brightflame, therefore being the grandson or great-grandson of Aerion. And that he knows who he is and might be in some way, in his mind at least, trying to fix the wrongdoings the Great Counsil made by passing over his father/grandfather. And since he's young, he would have a better claim to the throne than an old man??? Maybe. Just my opinion. I have the feeling I'm most likely not the only one to come up with this theory as I'm sure others have beat me to it. But has anyone ever agreed to that, or think it might be possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drekinn Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Young Griff being a Blackfyre is a pretty popular theory. Some even say Varys also is one, or a descendant of Aerion's line. There's also a chapter that went through major modifications. Apparently when Tyrion and Illyrio part ways Illyrio talks with the men in Valyrian, and what little Tyrion can understand hints at the Blackfyre sword being delivered to Young Griff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shireen Purratheon Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I know somewhere along the line, I read a theory about how Illyrio's wife was a descendant of both the Blackfyre line and the Brightflame line. ETA: Veltigar's Brightfyre Theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/104644-the-brightfyre-theory/ http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/113916-the-brightfyre-theory-addendum/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Young Griff is a Blackfyre. The Cyvasse dragon's in TWOW (Tyrion and Arianne Chapters) are SO obvious. He could be one of Maelys' or maybe Daemon's grandchildren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I can't remember where the hell I saw it, but in one of the Blackfyre theory posts somebody said there was stuff cut from a Tyrion chapter where he overheard Illyrio arguing with Varys or someone over giving YG a present, which was made obvious to be Blackfyre the sword, which would have made who really is 100% obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OuttaOldtown Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 On July 18, 2016 at 5:56 PM, Drekinn said: Young Griff being a Blackfyre is a pretty popular theory. Some even say Varys also is one, or a descendant of Aerion's line. There's also a chapter that went through major modifications. Apparently when Tyrion and Illyrio part ways Illyrio talks with the men in Valyrian, and what little Tyrion can understand hints at the Blackfyre sword being delivered to Young Griff. 1 hour ago, Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies said: I can't remember where the hell I saw it, but in one of the Blackfyre theory posts somebody said there was stuff cut from a Tyrion chapter where he overheard Illyrio arguing with Varys or someone over giving YG a present, which was made obvious to be Blackfyre the sword, which would have made who really is 100% obvious. Here it is: "Illyrio says he wants to give Young Griff his blessings and has a gift for him in the chests. Haldon tells him there is no time for the litter. Illyrio gets angry and says there are things Griff must know....Haldon eyes Tyrion and then begins to speak in another language. Tyrion cannot tell what it is but think it might be Volantene. He catches a few words that come close to High Valyrian. The words he catches are, queen, dragon, and sword Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Vance II Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I know there are tons of things that can point to Aegon being fake...but why does it seem like no one wants him to be real? A long shot and a late add, I know, but for me the thing that makes Aegon real is Jon Connington. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he was the one who spirited the boy out of King's Landing and has been with him basically all his life. Connington gave up everything for the Targaryans, I don't think he'd be so gung-ho if he knew he was supporting a fake. I guess Illyrio could have switched the babies, but if anyone would notice, it would be JonCon. But, if this isn't the case, him as a Blackfyre fits in with their running theme of popping up when opportunity presents itself. Or if he is just some random kid and they have the sword Blackfyre, maybe they'd portray him as a Blackfyre since they already have the sword as "proof". Plus they need a difference between Dany and Aegon if they hope to rally Westeros around him to repel her and her army of dragons, reavers, horse lords, slave soldiers and everything else that goes bump in the night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 25 minutes ago, Lord Vance II said: I know there are tons of things that can point to Aegon being fake...but why does it seem like no one wants him to be real? A long shot and a late add, I know, but for me the thing that makes Aegon real is Jon Connington. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he was the one who spirited the boy out of King's Landing and has been with him basically all his life. Connington gave up everything for the Targaryans, I don't think he'd be so gung-ho if he knew he was supporting a fake. I guess Illyrio could have switched the babies, but if anyone would notice, it would be JonCon. But, if this isn't the case, him as a Blackfyre fits in with their running theme of popping up when opportunity presents itself. Or if he is just some random kid and they have the sword Blackfyre, maybe they'd portray him as a Blackfyre since they already have the sword as "proof". Plus they need a difference between Dany and Aegon if they hope to rally Westeros around him to repel her and her army of dragons, reavers, horse lords, slave soldiers and everything else that goes bump in the night. Not quite... Quote "Did you know my true father?" "Well, I saw him twice or thrice, but I was only ten when Robert killed him, and mine own sire had me hidden underneath a rock. No, I cannot claim I knew Prince Rhaegar. Not as your false father did. Lord Connington was the prince's dearest friend, was he not?" Young Griff pushed a lock of blue hair out of his eyes. "They were squires together at King's Landing." "A true friend, our Lord Connington. He must be, to remain so fiercely loyal to the grandson of the king who took his lands and titles and sent him into exile. A pity about that. Elsewise Prince Rhaegar's friend might have been on hand when my father sacked King's Landing, to save Prince Rhaegar's precious little son from getting his royal brains dashed out against a wall." The lad flushed. "That was not me. I told you. That was some tanner's son from Pisswater Bend whose mother died birthing him. His father sold him to Lord Varys for a jug of Arbor gold. He had other sons but had never tasted Arbor gold. Varys gave the Pisswater boy to my lady mother and carried me away. "Aye." Tyrion moved his elephants. "And when the pisswater prince was safely dead, the eunuch smuggled you across the narrow sea to his fat friend the cheesemonger, who hid you on a poleboat and found an exile lord willing to call himself your father. It does make for a splendid story, and the singers will make much of your escape once you take the Iron Throne … assuming that our fair Daenerys takes you for her consort." Tyrion VI, Dance 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Vance II Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Not quite... Ah, so Connington was hooked up with Aegon later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYStars Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 On 18/07/2016 at 0:51 AM, BricksAndSparrows said: Young Griff is a Blackfyre. The Cyvasse dragon's in TWOW (Tyrion and Arianne Chapters) are SO obvious. He could be one of Maelys' or maybe Daemon's grandchildren. So obvious that I missed them. Please can you (or someone) elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 27 minutes ago, COYStars said: So obvious that I missed them. Please can you (or someone) elaborate? You might not notice if you haven't read The Tales of Dunc and Egg. Particularly the short story "The Sworn Sword." You should definitely check it out. The Targaryen use a red dragon on a black field as the symbol of their house. I guess it's common in Westeros for bastards to reverse the colors for their own symbols. So the Blackfyre's (Targaryen Bastards) take the symbol of a Black dragon on a red field. There was a rebellion, almost 100 years before A Game Of Thrones, and a bastard, Daemon Blackfyre, tried to take the thrown. He failed, but it divided the realm, When people talked about it afterward, they would say they fought for one dragon or the other. The Black or the Red. So this brings me back to my post... Spoiler Doran Marten sends Arianne to treat with Jon Connington, and he places an onyx cyvasse dragon in her hand when he makes his "fire and blood," vow. In the Winds of Winter (Tyrion's sample chapter,) Tyrion is with a group of sellswords who are fighting for the Yunkish Masters against Daenerys. But they deceide to turn their cloaks and fight for Dany. And at the end of the chapter, just after they decide, Tyrion is holding a red cyvasse dragon. It's actually white, but it's covered in blood. So that's it.. What do you think? Have you read the Dunc and Egg novellas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYStars Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 8 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said: So that's it.. What do you think? Have you read the Dunc and Egg novellas? Yep, I've read them. I completely missed the Arianne thing though. So the Martells know? That provides a completely different context to their support as per the sample chapter. I don't get the Tyrion one though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Just now, COYStars said: Yep, I've read them. I completely missed the Arianne thing though. So the Martells know? That provides a completely different context to their support as per the sample chapter. I don't get the Tyrion one though. The Martells might know... I don't think it's so much a matter of the intentions of the characters. I think it is just foreshadowing by the author. That's all. Like in the chapter before Ned gets betrayed in the throne room in the first book. (I was just talking about this in another thread.) The chapter ends with Sam and Jon discovering the dead Rangers. The Chapter ends with Ghost trotting over with a dead hand in his mouth. It's just GRRM's way of hinting at what dragon people are siding with, Or maybe Doran Martell does know. All though that's not info Aegon's keepers would have volunteered. It would completely compromise his claim to the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYStars Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Dead hand. I like that. Thanks for the explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 6 hours ago, COYStars said: Yep, I've read them. I completely missed the Arianne thing though. So the Martells know? That provides a completely different context to their support as per the sample chapter. I don't get the Tyrion one though. Doran might suspect, or he might not. The hint is one for the reader from The George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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