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Bakker: The Great Ordeal SPOILER THREAD pt. II


kuenjato

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5 hours ago, WrathOfTinyKittens said:

Ok, it's like this:

Kelmomas is following the WLW around the ruined palace.  On the way to the throne room, Esmi sees the WLW and follows him to the throne room, not knowing that Kelmomas is following.  She finds Kellhus waiting in the Audience Hall, and he seems to discern that she wants herself, him, or both dead.  

Then we switch to the WLW's POV, and he sees himself sneak in behind Esmi, hide next to a column, and take advantage of an earthquake caused by Yatwer - he thinks to himself "Mother claps the rug of the world..." and "Mother stamps her foot upon the earth" - to kill Kellhus.  There is a little bit of fuckery here, because the WLW POV makes it sound like a Chorae just spontaneously appears, but actually it is embedded in the ceiling, as mentioned by Esmi earlier in the book.  Kellhus is barely able to dodge the Chorae, but the WLW's sword pierces his throat - not his heart, as was predicted in earlier books - and he dies.  Esmi is not seen to be killed.

However, none of that actually happened.  Kelmomas, in an effort to aid the WLW, calls out to distract Kellhus, and breaks the causal chain of the Unerring Grace.  Kellhus moves to the throne, the earthquake strikes, and the WLW is crushed beneath a collapsing prayer tower.  

There's no indication as to whether Esmi lives or dies.  The tower is written to have struck just where Kellhus was standing, but he had moved away from Esmi a moment before.  It is plausible that when he stepped back, he moved back far enough that the collapse didn't kill her.

Personally, I think that Bakker would be monumentally dumb to have her die without so much as a mention, especially since it all happens from Kelmomas' POV, and Esmi is more or less the only thing he cares about.

Thank you very much. So the section in italics where a chorae hits kelhus's cheek is the narindar seeing it as it was supposed to happen, but it didnt happen that way because he did not or could not see that kelmomas was there. because of that his brain popped, and he bled out of his ears and then was crushed. Got it, thank you. 

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46 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Huh. Shouldn't Kellhus be raping a whole lot more people then? What is special about Proyas that necessitates his personal butthole be the one saved?

Proy-as puts the ass in Jud-as?

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1 minute ago, lokisnow said:

Proy-as puts the ass in Jud-as?

This really belongs in the optimal tip-to-tip damnation. If Kellhus can save a person from damnation via rape, how long would it take for him to rape the entire empire and save them? Can we optimize it so that he can rape one person while fingerbanging two others, or is fingerbanging not enough to erase damnation? Does a rim job erase damnation? 

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3 minutes ago, Damned with the Wind said:

Well, the argument is that Kellhus is raping Proyas into disbelief to save his soul, so Kellhus' doesn't need to rape everyone - just the Zaudunyani.

Yeah, but there are a lot of those, aren't there? Like 20,000 or something? Plus the true believers at home. That's a whole lot of rape to go around.

Maybe that's it - he's wanting to hook up with the Consult because they're far more efficient at raping than he is. 

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When is the chorae in the ceiling mentioned?

The WLW passages keep making a big deal about Esmi and "catch."  Then Kellhus says "What have you done?"  I thought she had given the Narindar a chorae.

:dunno: 

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6 hours ago, Rhom said:

When is the chorae in the ceiling mentioned?

The WLW passages keep making a big deal about Esmi and "catch."  Then Kellhus says "What have you done?"  I thought she had given the Narindar a chorae.

:dunno: 

In an esmenet chapter in tgo

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Does anyone have a theory about what was up with the Nonman torture chamber that was divided up into thresholds to keep it hidden from the gods? We have any pieces to the puzzle of how that might work?

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