Lady Sansa Clegane

[Darksky]

How has he been punished exactly? I don't consider having his face burned as punishment, as he was but a child then and didn't do anything wrong. He's yet to pay for the bad things he's done in his adult life. And even if he's not to pay, I don't see him get any rewards from fate. Well his reward will be a glorious death and final peace.

[ThePukwudgie]

4 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

House Clegane is a minor house, but it's a house of landed knights... which is still counted as nobility. And Knightly houses must marry just as well. And up until Sansa's grandfather the Starks were never big on "the daughter of a Warden" must only marry someone of a high house. In fact, most Stark daughters and sons married into bannermen houses of the North, where they don't even care about "knights", but a noble warrior can get landed. They've given Wolf Den to a landless exiled House of the South, with the Manderlies. House Cerwyn is some newer house, close by. In the books, the Karstark heir Alys was wedded to the Magnar of the Thenns of the wildlings. A lot has gone wrong for the Starks since Rickard set his sights on marrying his sons and daughters into High Houses. And then there's the upcoming Others invasion. Many houses will go extinct and many will die. But the land will also need to be repopulated with men who were heroes and loyal and fighting for common folk to be given lands and honors to protect the common folk. House Clegane imo will become a Northern noble house with lands, and Lord Clegane will need a bride, and Sansa looks to be willing.

It'd be more accurate to say that House Clegane is a minor and USELESS house. As I've said before, there is no point in Sansa marrying Sandor. In fact, there's no point in Sandor's life beyond helping the effort against the Others, Cersei, and especially his brother. He's not surviving long enough to marry anybody.

Speculation of course.

Also, can we talk about how creepy this ship is. How old are these characters?

[sweetsunray]

55 minutes ago, ThePukwudgie said:

It'd be more accurate to say that House Clegane is a minor and USELESS house. As I've said before, there is no point in Sansa marrying Sandor. In fact, there's no point in Sandor's life beyond helping the effort against the Others, Cersei, and especially his brother. He's not surviving long enough to marry anybody.

Speculation of course.

Also, can we talk about how creepy this ship is. How old are these characters?

Well, basically you're talking "opinion", while I'm talking about in-world histoircal facts. You have given no argument why it would be a useless house at all. Just repeating your opinion over and over without actual visual or textual basis does not make your assertions of your opinions story-facts at all. You can repeat your opinion as much as you want, but it doesn't change the in-world historical facts that the North hasn't given a damn much about marrying into minor houses, as long as they're part of the North.

Let's also not forget the literary symbolim - in that case, House Clegane is set up to become a crucial House of the North and even belongs there. From the very first chapter about Winterfell we are given allusions and references time and time again that Winterfell and the North is a symbolical underworld with the Starks set up as the rulers of this underworld and with the responsibility to make sure their subjects don't end up South. Ned is typecasted as Hades. Now what else do you automatically link to Hades? The Hellhound, Cerberus (3 headed). We get a specific scene with 3 direwolves threatening a Lion (Tyrion) who pees in his pants. And we have House Clegane with a sigil of 3 dogs, and an origin story of huntings dogs taking on a lion, and of course Sandor's Hound helm.

Cerberus was a crucial guard in the underworld, and Hades's pet. However, Hercules once managed to acquire Cerberus and had him serve him for him a while. Hercules wore a lion skin. Eventually Cerberus left Hercules' side and returned to the world where he belonged: the underworld.

When the books and GOT starts, the Hound is already serving the Lions. But he leaves the Lions' side and aims to join the Starks, the rulers of the North (the symbolical underworld). Once, he "died", he can gain perfect access and become part of the North. It is not a useless house. It will end up being a pivotal House. It wouldn't surprise me if Sandor ends up being given a crucial castle and land that guards the boundaries or roads of the North, either guarding the separation of South and North, or closer to the Wall, if he doesn't acquire the Dreadfort.  

As for marriage - mutual affection is a good point for marriage, within the socially accepted class, and Sandor Clegane falls in that socially acceptable class, certainly if he ends up doing heroic stuff. 

Sandor Clegane is 29. Normal marriage age for a man in feudal societies is usually somewhere between 25-30, especially if they have to earn their stripes first.

As for creepy - I find that a rather puzzling mention, when the Hound has never forced a kiss on Sansa (though she falsely remembers one) and when she herself is into him, that in contrast to Tyrion (around the age of the Hound and married her under duress and she is completely not attracted to him at all), or in contrast to Littlefinger (who has tried to marry her even before she had her menses, forcibly kissed her, and has set her up for any of his plans completely disregarding her own wishes, and even much older), or Joffrey (who's close to her age but a sadistic abuser), or Jon (whom she regards as a brother and who himself has been confronted time and time again with the evilness of incest) and in the show we have that horrible Ramsay too. If age difference is your denominator of creepy, then all of Westeros is probably creepy. You even have a boy being married to a baby of a few months old. My personal taste of age difference matters little when Sansa has no issue with it. After all the men that have actually been creeping over and abusing Sansa, I root for the guy she actually wants and never laid a wrong finger on her and tried to help her regardless what it cost him.

[ADanceWithCats]

16 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I was referring to the references, actually. (links that I was pointing out). 

I don't remember him saying "it's a Beauty and The Beast story" but he has sayed he has played with them (as romance) and the show as well, and given the links and the similarities that can be seen there (there's no need to be a SanSan fan to see them, I wasn't and I saw that) as well as the fact that he loves writing these type of stories: Brienne and Jaime, Beauty and The Beast from the 90's....I think it could be assumed.

But I don't have 100% proof of that (normally it's difficult to have 100% proof of something).

He was pretty open in calling out Jaime/Brienne as a 'reverse Beauty and the Beast', and it's pretty obvious that it is - he's a pretty one, she's a fighter and a defender. But he never once called anything about Sansa/Sandor as 'Beauty and the Beast'. He said that 'there are fans who notice the connection between Sansa and the Hound' or something akin to this. He never said that he thinks these fans are correct in where they think this story will go. That he doesn't intend to deviate from the trope in later books.

This is an important point, because a lot of people equivocate on this topic. Stating that GRRM has positively affirmed that this is actually happening, and will continue to be happening in future books, while... that's just not true.

 

Meanwhile, behold the show, which has moved on beyond the plot of the books. After some character development on Sansa's part, Sansa and Sandor are now fundamentally incompatible. She wants to be a politician; he continues to hold the position of, almost literally, 'fuck that all'. She already has a protector (as mentioned, the woman who beat the Hound; and who, presumably, won't request sexual gratification for the services she offers). She has not said his name in several seasons, while she did flirt with Littlefinger. And on Sandor's part? He did become 'more thoughtful', but that's all. It's pretty likely that his newfound thoughtfulness will lead him to try to purge the sins of House Clegane from the world by killing his brother. It would be a good story beat.

And finally, finally, there is the meta level. Sansa's story is about self-empowerment. To end it with, "and so this teenage girl 'found a man to protect her' and ended up in a codependent relationship" would be both regressive and deeply worrying and offensive. Possibly it was a good ending to the story... 200 years ago. But in the 21st century, one hopes... we would be beyond that. Sansa needs a partner, not a protector.

[Le Cygne]

On 7/31/2016 at 11:53 AM, Meera of Tarth said:

I was referring to the references, actually. (links that I was pointing out).

More...

"Kissing the Hound, as she had":

Quote

You will see, in A STORM OF SWORDS and later volumes [there's only been one so far], that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her the night he came to her bedroom... but if you look at the scene, he never does. That will eventually mean something, but just now it's a subtle touch, something most of the readers may not even pick up on.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/SF_Targaryens_Valyria_Sansa_Martells_and_More

The Hound says the Beast's lines:

Quote

La Belle et la Bete (Beauty and the Beast):

One does not call me "my Lord"; one calls me "Beast." I don't like compliments.

Sansa and the Hound:

"Spare me your empty little compliments, girl... And I'm no lord..."

Scene the author wrote paralleling Sansa and the Hound as La Belle et la Bete (Beauty and the Beast)

Calendar art the author requested for Sansa and the Hound as la Belle et la Bete (Beauty and the Beast)

Quote

Getting to write words for Ron Perlman was one of the best parts of the three years I spent as a writer and producer on BEAUTY AND THE BEAST. We had a great team on that show; terrific writers, a top-notch crew, and a superb cast. Ron was twice nominated for an Emmy for his portrayal of Vincent. If anyone ever makes a film of A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE, I wanted him to play the Hound.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/about-george/life-and-times/hollywood/

Picture the author put on his website, Sandor rescuing Sansa

Quote

GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: And I do know there's all these people out there who are, as they call themselves, the SanSan fans, who want to see Sandor and Sansa get together at the end. So that's interesting, too.
TOM MERRITT: The TV show has sort of played with that a little and probably stoked those fires, I would think.
GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Oh, sure. And I've played with it in the books.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah, yeah.
GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: There's something there. But it's still interesting to see how many people have responded to it.
VERONICA BELMONT: I'm not going to say that that hasn't crossed my mind. Maybe I need to go join one of those fan sites and learn more.

http://transcriptvids.com/v/_tWg7LPq4nE.html

Quote

Weiss: The developing relationship between these two.

Benioff: Yep. Much more to come.

Commentary for this scene

Quote

Weiss:  It's a good thing that Rory is as tall as he is. Sophie must have grown a foot in the first year of the show. Luckily she's playing against Rory who's also...

Benioff:  Yeah, he's genuinely massive.

Commentary for this scene

Quote

SANSA (to SANDOR): What are you doing here?

Lena Headey (to SANSA): He loves you!...

SANDOR (to SANSA): I could take you with me. Take you to Winterfell. I'll keep you safe.

Neil Marshall (director): We re-shot this scene because the first version we did also had a song in it... He made Sansa sing, but it was the song that she had just finished singing, so coming off the back of the scene it would have...

Peter Dinklage (singing the song from the Disney movie): Really? Beauty and the Beast ...

Commentary for this scene

[sweetsunray]

14 hours ago, Darksky said:

How has he been punished exactly? I don't consider having his face burned as punishment, as he was but a child then and didn't do anything wrong. He's yet to pay for the bad things he's done in his adult life. And even if he's not to pay, I don't see him get any rewards from fate. Well his reward will be a glorious death and final peace.

He already died and peace didn't work out for him.

[Meera of Tarth]

3 hours ago, ADanceWithCats said:

He was pretty open in calling out Jaime/Brienne as a 'reverse Beauty and the Beast', and it's pretty obvious that it is - he's a pretty one, she's a fighter and a defender. But he never once called anything about Sansa/Sandor as 'Beauty and the Beast'. He said that 'there are fans who notice the connection between Sansa and the Hound' or something akin to this. He never said that he thinks these fans are correct in where they think this story will go. That he doesn't intend to deviate from the trope in later books.

This is an important point, because a lot of people equivocate on this topic. Stating that GRRM has positively affirmed that this is actually happening, and will continue to be happening in future books, while... that's just not true.

 

As I said, I don't have this information, I never stated this

Quote

Stating that GRRM has positively affirmed that this is actually happening

so maybe he never said this is a BatB  story (or based on this.) It would be better to read the comments before posting. But if you didn't read it, don't worry, it can happen to everybody.

My arguments that this is this type of story (or based in this) were actually for the obvious Beauty and Beast looks and the books references, as well as the show moments that @Le Cygne has posted several times.

But the most obvious one for me was that GRRM wrote the episode "Blackwater" in which The Hound wants to escape with Sansa and their scenes together hold a big resemblance to the film of Jean Cocteau (the filmaker of the 1946 film The Beauty and The Beast). Martin holds a cinema with the name of this filmmaker and he used to be a screenwriter of the late 80's-early 90's show The Beauty and The Beast (that now is running again with a remake).

And you are right, he never said this fans are correct: which also doesn't diminish that this is a Beauty and The Beast story-based (with probably a different development or ending, I don't think they will marry, for instance).

Quote

He was pretty open in calling out Jaime/Brienne as a 'reverse Beauty and the Beast', and it's pretty obvious that it is - he's a pretty one, she's a fighter and a defender.

Well, regards to Jaime and Brienne I think there is so much depth (many layers, in fact) in their Beauty and The Beast story than being the pretty one. And as you pointed out, she is a figthter and a defender (amongst many other things) so that's-again-not exactly a BatB story, but is based on its premises. There's no reason to doubt that Martin might do something similar (expand his vast knowledge of TBatB with Sansa and Sandor).

Quote

Meanwhile, behold the show, which has moved on beyond the plot of the books. After some character development on Sansa's part, Sansa and Sandor are now fundamentally incompatible. She wants to be a politician; he continues to hold the position of, almost literally, 'fuck that all'. She already has a protector (as mentioned, the woman who beat the Hound; and who, presumably, won't request sexual gratification for the services she offers). She has not said his name in several seasons, while she did flirt with Littlefinger. And on Sandor's part? He did become 'more thoughtful', but that's all. It's pretty likely that his newfound thoughtfulness will lead him to try to purge the sins of House Clegane from the world by killing his brother. It would be a good story beat.

So do  you think they are incompatible because she has political skills and Sandor is already a "fuck that all" man-only more thoughtful?

First of all, I completely disagree that he is already a "fuck them all" man. I suppose this refers to the fact that he killed two random Brotherhood deserters-murderers? It's a bit ironical considering that these people killed his saviour, mentor and all the villagers he had met and that had changed his life into a more peaceful one. He even followed the others of the real brotherhood as for how to kill those assassins.... I think he is not the same "fuck them all" guy you were suggesting.

The part that she has already a protector it's a bit tricky: we don't know the fate of Brienne and I highly doubt her fate will be protecting Sansa as a bodyguard. And even if that is the case, there's nothing wrong in being with a man you have fallen in love with (and he also) and having a female bodyguard with you because you are a political girl and need extra protection.

Quote

She has not said his name in several seasons, while she did flirt with Littlefinger. And on Sandor's part? He did become 'more thoughtful', but that's all. It's pretty likely that his newfound thoughtfulness will lead him to try to purge the sins of House Clegane from the world by killing his brother. It would be a good story beat.

That's true. It's probably one of the things I give you credit for-good catch. But he thought of her several times. That doesn't mean it can't change (she thinking of him).

That's completely false. She never did that. She followed his game, if flirting is the same as letting LF kiss you in order to survive/learn the game/have a " villain mentor", then yep, she has been flirting.

Quote

 

And finally, finally, there is the meta level. Sansa's story is about self-empowerment. To end it with, "and so this teenage girl 'found a man to protect her' and ended up in a codependent relationship" would be both regressive and deeply worrying and offensive. Possibly it was a good ending to the story... 200 years ago. But in the 21st century, one hopes... we would be beyond that. Sansa needs a partner, not a protector.

I don't know if her story is about that. It's only season 6 that shows that. But regarding the books in general.....well...could be.

As for the protector and the codependent relationship......I can't understand why being with Sandor would mean that, especially considering that Brienne is her new bodyguard in your statements.

[sweetsunray]

4 hours ago, ADanceWithCats said:

He was pretty open in calling out Jaime/Brienne as a 'reverse Beauty and the Beast', and it's pretty obvious that it is - he's a pretty one, she's a fighter and a defender. But he never once called anything about Sansa/Sandor as 'Beauty and the Beast'. He said that 'there are fans who notice the connection between Sansa and the Hound' or something akin to this. He never said that he thinks these fans are correct in where they think this story will go. That he doesn't intend to deviate from the trope in later books.

This is an important point, because a lot of people equivocate on this topic. Stating that GRRM has positively affirmed that this is actually happening, and will continue to be happening in future books, while... that's just not true.

It's actually a moot point. An author does not have to spell out or confirm his allusions to other classic literature, fairytales, etc out. The textual allusions and references are often enough to point that out in books, while visual allusions with props are used in the visual medium. That's how literature works that aims to go beyond a literal reading. Shows or movies that are inspired or adaptations of literature will use visual cues as references.

George uses themes, parallels for different characters all the time. And he makes the reader work for it, because that's part of the enjoyment in reading beyond the literal plot. Especially an author who aspires to write his magnus opus will not give the reader a companion manual to uncover these allusions and references.

Possibly you don't care about these allusions. The books can be read and the show can be seen as literal: this is the plot, these are the events, these are the character names, this is the dialogue. The show can be watched in the same way. But it can be read and viewed at a meta-level and then the references will stand out.

[Le Cygne]

16 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

As I said, I don't have this information, I never stated this

Wait, you mean he never gave the ending of the books away?

Seriously, no one has ever said he told them how the books will end. Someone did ask him about SanSan's future, and he winked, though. But yeah, no author gives away the ending.

Quote

That's true. It's probably one of the things I give you credit for-good catch. But he thought of her several times. That doesn't mean it can't change (she thinking of him).

Also because she doesn't say his name, doesn't mean she's not thinking of him. They hinted that she had a dream (out of focus dissolve) at the same story point as her dream of him in the books.

She never tells anyone her feelings for him in the books, either.

[para]

10 hours ago, ThePukwudgie said:

Also, can we talk about how creepy this ship is. How old are these characters?

Sansa is 11 when they first meet. She is 12 during the Battle of Blackwater. Sandor is in his late 20s.

[Meera of Tarth]

6 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

 

Also because she doesn't say his name, doesn't mean she's not thinking of him. They hinted that she had a dream (out of focus dissolve) at the same story point as her dream of him in the books.
 

Exactly. It could be. We don't have her POV in the show.

 

Quote

Wait, you mean he never gave the ending of the books away?

Seriously, no one has ever said he told them how the books will end. Someone did ask him about SanSan's future, and he winked, though. But yeah, no author gives away the ending.

Of course he hasn't. But it's pretty obvious he knows and likes a lot Beauty and The Beast to create his own ones.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

20 minutes ago, para said:

Sansa is 11 when they first meet. She is 12 during the Battle of Blackwater. Sandor is in his late 20s.

Those are book numbers.  IIRC Sandor and Tyrion are almost the same age in the books (28ish at the start).  

In the show, I think Sansa is 14 during Blackwater.   Though we are never told Sandor's age, he looks to be in his 40's.   But if he's also the same age as Tyrion, he might be in his 30's.  I think Tyrion is supposed to be like 32-36 during the series, since we are told Jaime is ~40 (during Season 4 I believe) and Tyrion is several years younger than the twins.  

I always assumed that because they cast Rory who is so much older than the book version, that they'd likely jettison the romantic subtext of the San-San plot.  So far they haven't done much with it in comparison to the books.  This could change, I just personally don't think it will.

[Le Cygne]

They said Sandor is in his 30's on the show. It's in the pilot script.

Also it's fascinating that the Jon and Sansa shippers on this thread who are so strongly object to a canon romance (Sansa is dreaming of Sandor's kiss and placing him in her marriage bed) because of a 15 year age gap... have no problems with Sansa having sex with her brother.

[sweetsunray]

30 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

I always assumed that because they cast Rory who is so much older than the book version, that they'd likely jettison the romantic subtext of the San-San plot.  So far they haven't done much with it in comparison to the books.  This could change, I just personally don't think it will.

Euhm are you using "romantic subtext" as a euphemism for "sex" with Sansa's arc? Sansa was raped on the show. So, clearly they don't have any issues with Sansa having sex on screen. So, they don't have any issue with showing Sansa being raped, "but they won't go there [romantic lovemaking]" with Sansa afterwards? On the show where Tommen was aged up particularly so that he and Marg could share a marriage bed? I don't think they'll shy away from having an adult Sansa having a romantic night with the man she chooses.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

6 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Euhm are you using "romantic subtext" as a euphemism for "sex" with Sansa's arc? Sansa was raped on the show. So, clearly they don't have any issues with Sansa having sex on screen. So, they don't have any issue with showing Sansa being raped, "but they won't go there [romantic lovemaking]" with Sansa afterwards? On the show where Tommen was aged up particularly so that he and Marg could share a marriage bed? I don't think they'll shy away from having an adult Sansa having a romantic night with the man she chooses.

Huh?  I'm confused by this entire post.

[sweetsunray]

Just now, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Huh?  I'm confused by this entire post.

It reads as if you argumented that they'll leave out the romance for sexual modesty reasons, since you replied that on a quote regarding "age differences". 

[ThePukwudgie]

12 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Well, basically you're talking "opinion", while I'm talking about in-world histoircal facts. You have given no argument why it would be a useless house at all. Just repeating your opinion over and over without actual visual or textual basis does not make your assertions of your opinions story-facts at all. You can repeat your opinion as much as you want, but it doesn't change the in-world historical facts that the North hasn't given a damn much about marrying into minor houses, as long as they're part of the North.

Let's also not forget the literary symbolim - in that case, House Clegane is set up to become a crucial House of the North and even belongs there. From the very first chapter about Winterfell we are given allusions and references time and time again that Winterfell and the North is a symbolical underworld with the Starks set up as the rulers of this underworld and with the responsibility to make sure their subjects don't end up South. Ned is typecasted as Hades. Now what else do you automatically link to Hades? The Hellhound, Cerberus (3 headed). We get a specific scene with 3 direwolves threatening a Lion (Tyrion) who pees in his pants. And we have House Clegane with a sigil of 3 dogs, and an origin story of huntings dogs taking on a lion, and of course Sandor's Hound helm.

Cerberus was a crucial guard in the underworld, and Hades's pet. However, Hercules once managed to acquire Cerberus and had him serve him for him a while. Hercules wore a lion skin. Eventually Cerberus left Hercules' side and returned to the world where he belonged: the underworld.

When the books and GOT starts, the Hound is already serving the Lions. But he leaves the Lions' side and aims to join the Starks, the rulers of the North (the symbolical underworld). Once, he "died", he can gain perfect access and become part of the North. It is not a useless house. It will end up being a pivotal House. It wouldn't surprise me if Sandor ends up being given a crucial castle and land that guards the boundaries or roads of the North, either guarding the separation of South and North, or closer to the Wall, if he doesn't acquire the Dreadfort.  

As for marriage - mutual affection is a good point for marriage, within the socially accepted class, and Sandor Clegane falls in that socially acceptable class, certainly if he ends up doing heroic stuff. 

Sandor Clegane is 29. Normal marriage age for a man in feudal societies is usually somewhere between 25-30, especially if they have to earn their stripes first.

As for creepy - I find that a rather puzzling mention, when the Hound has never forced a kiss on Sansa (though she falsely remembers one) and when she herself is into him, that in contrast to Tyrion (around the age of the Hound and married her under duress and she is completely not attracted to him at all), or in contrast to Littlefinger (who has tried to marry her even before she had her menses, forcibly kissed her, and has set her up for any of his plans completely disregarding her own wishes, and even much older), or Joffrey (who's close to her age but a sadistic abuser), or Jon (whom she regards as a brother and who himself has been confronted time and time again with the evilness of incest) and in the show we have that horrible Ramsay too. If age difference is your denominator of creepy, then all of Westeros is probably creepy. You even have a boy being married to a baby of a few months old. My personal taste of age difference matters little when Sansa has no issue with it. After all the men that have actually been creeping over and abusing Sansa, I root for the guy she actually wants and never laid a wrong finger on her and tried to help her regardless what it cost him.

Burden of proof is always on those who make the positive assertions. I don't have to prove that House Clegane is useless. YOU have to prove that it's USEFUL. Also, House Clegane isn't a part of the north. I guess it can just move. I don't know how these things work. Also, Sansa(in the show at least) isn't like other Starks. She's aiming to be smarter at playing the game than her father.

Symbols can be misinterpreted, which I feel you are doing. Heavily. I don't need to address it any further than that.

Yes, it's creepy. I believe Sansa is 14 in the last book. You honestly think she's mature enough to make these decisions for herself? Whatever Sandor is willing to do or not do, it doesn't change the fact that he's thought about her in an extremely inappropriate way.

No matter how anybody spins it, it's a creepy ship. It may be contextually accurate, but us the audience are reading it from the 21st century. The correct response is discomfort.

[Le Cygne]

Ages context from GRRM:

Quote

"The other big decision we had to make to keep all that material was the ages of the characters. In the books, Dany is 13 years old when all of this begins... Although my books are fantasy, not historical fiction in the strict sense, they occur in an imaginary world and imaginary kingdoms, they're very heavily based on real history. And of course, I've done a ton of research about real medieval history. And basically in the middle ages, they did not have our concept of adolescence, of this sort of these sort of teenage years in between where we're kind of adults, but not adults, and we have different ages, where we're allowed to vote at this age, and we're allowed to go to war and die at a different age, and we're allowed to drink at another age, and have sex at a different age, depending on which state we're in, all of that stuff.

"They had child and adult. And the difference between them was the onset of sexual maturity."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTTW8M_etko

Quote

They aged everybody up. Not just the kids. I mean, Sean Bean is, what in his 50's, I think, and Ned Stark is in his... Ned Stark is like 33? So, yeah. Robb and Jon are both 16 and 17 on the TV show and they're 14 when the book opens. So, everyone is aged up I think. It was probably most crucial with Dany, who begins as a 13-year-old in the books. But, you have the whole issue of sexual activity on behalf of a 13-year-old, which was accepted in the Middle Ages, which I was using as my model. Many high born women, particularly noble women, were married at 13 or even younger. But its not so accepted in today's society and we didn't want to get into that whole bag of worms.

http://entertainment.time.com/2011/04/15/george-r-r-martin-on-game-of-thrones-from-book-to-tv/

[Ashes Of Westeros]

10 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

It reads as if you argumented that they'll leave out the romance for sexual modesty reasons, since you replied that on a quote regarding "age differences". 

Considering Sansa 11-12 y.o. in the books and 13-14 in the show, anyone expressing romantic/sexual interest in her would seem creepy for modern viewers.

In the books the bond between Sansa and sandor is mostly shown through Sansa's perspective. In the show it doesn't happen, though D&D could include mentioning the Hound in dialogues or smth. But they did show that Sandor cares about Sansa and protects her. So if SanSan will happen in the show, it won't be completely out of the blue. But I don't think we will see any sex scene between them, it would be too good for GoT.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

37 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

It reads as if you argumented that they'll leave out the romance for sexual modesty reasons, since you replied that on a quote regarding "age differences". 

I'm arguing by making the age difference greater than in the books, they were signaling it is less likely to be a romantic relationship than if they had cast the age gap to be more similar to the books.  That is, by casting an older actor they are choosing to emphasize his role as a protector figure for both Stark girls, rather than the emphasizing the romantic arc with Sansa.  And, so far, they really haven't done as much with it that hints at romance as the books have, particularly in key scenes like BoBW.  They could still change course if they want of course.