Will Jon and Sansa become romantically involved?

[Britisher]

8 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Hother Umber says they need longwships, yes, and Rodrik tells them to work with the Manderlys. Rodrik goes on and says they, the Umbers, have plenty of pines and oak, and that Manderly has the shipwrights. So, that fleet is the fleet Davos sees [a part of] when he's in White Harbour. The Umbers provided the wood, basically, but they have no fleet. 

ACoK, Bran

“Hother wanted ships. “There’s wildlings stealing down from the north, more than I’ve ever seen before. They cross the Bay of Seals in little boats and wash up on our shores. The crows in Eastwatch are too few to stop them, and they go to ground quick as weasels. It’s longships we need, aye, and strong men to sail them. The Greatjon took too many. Half our harvest is gone to seed for want of arms to swing the scythes.”
Ser Rodrik pulled at his whiskers. “You have forests of tall pine and old oak. Lord Manderly has shipwrights and sailors in plenty. Together you ought to be able to float enough longships to guard both your coasts.”
“Manderly?” Mors Umber snorted. “That great waddling sack of suet? His own people mock him as Lord Lamprey, I’ve heard. The man can scarce walk. If you stuck a sword in his belly, ten thousand eels would wriggle out.”
“He is fat,” Ser Rodrik admitted, “but he is not stupid. You will work with him, or the king will know the reason why.” And to Bran’s astonishment, the truculent Umbers agreed to do as he commanded, though not without grumbling.”
 

Do we know this for a certainty? 

I think Sansa/Littlefinger's best option will be to appease Lord Manderly, although what about Aurane Waters fleet (far-fetched I know)?

[sweetsunray]

54 minutes ago, Britisher said:

We have no indication of the size of the Arryn fleet although there are plenty of options available for Sansa and Littlefinger, the most favourable of which would be striking an alliance with House Manderly to provide passage for the Knights of the Vale through the White Knife. Alternatively, House Umber or the remainder of Stannis's fleet could provide passage for the Knights of the Vale to Eastwatch by the Sea. 

Stannis & Littlefinger? If Littlefinger even shows his nose to Stannis he's gonna be a head shorter.

[Britisher]

5 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Stannis & Littlefinger? If Littlefinger even shows his nose to Stannis he's gonna be a head shorter.

I don't believe it is likely but it is possible that Sansa could be the one to approach him or his Master of Ships. Stannis would benefit from Sansa's claim on the north, her partial claim on the Riverlands and from the Knight's of the Vale at his side.

[sweetsunray]

Just now, Britisher said:

I don't believe it is likely but it is possible that Sansa could be the one to approach him or his admiral. Stannis would benefit from Sansa's claim on the north, her partial claim on the Riverlands and from the Knight's of the Vale at his side.

And how would she go about that? And in which scenario is this? Taking WF? That's already an on-going process, while Sansa is busy with a tourney at the Gates of the Moon.

[Wilnova]

2 minutes ago, Britisher said:

I don't believe it is likely but it is possible that Sansa could be the one to approach him or his Master of Ships. Stannis would benefit from Sansa's claim on the north, her partial claim on the Riverlands and from the Knight's of the Vale at his side.

lol!

Quote

Jon: "By right, Winterfell should go to my sister Sansa"

Stannis: "Lady Lannister, you mean? Are you so eager to see the Imp perched on your father's seat? I promise you, that will not happen whilst I live, Lord Snow." 

Jon: "Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa."

Stannis: "I have heard all I need to hear about Lady Lannister and her claim."

 

[Britisher]

 

1 minute ago, Wilnova said:

lol!

 

Forgot about that one, excellent point.

[Britisher]

Another side thought: perhaps Lord Wyman Manderly is working with Littlefinger to eradicate any challenges to Sansa's claim on the North (Bran and Rickon).

[sweetsunray]

Sansa retaking WF with LF and Vale army is fanfic. It has to ignore Stannis with a plan at the Ice Lakes, ignore Manderly has his Rickon agenda, ignore pretty much all the Lords in the North already being in the thick of it, with those in the castle having only a so-so alliance with Roose. WF will be taken before Jon is resurrected, perhaps even stabbed (if the Pink Letter was written by a Stannis ally). Stannis will then have his eye on gathering an army to move South for his Westeros campaign. Only then does the Vale army become of interest, and then he'd rather have them strike out from the Vale, rather than travel North.

[kissdbyfire]

25 minutes ago, Britisher said:

Do we know this for a certainty? 

I think Sansa/Littlefinger's best option will be to appease Lord Manderly, although what about Aurane Waters fleet (far-fetched I know)?

The idea that the Umbers or Manderly or Stannis would ally themselves with LF is completely absurd to me. 

Aurane Waters has set himself up on Torture's Deep (Stepstones). He is now a 'pirate king' and styles himself Lord of the Waters. His stolen fleet will no doubt play a part in the overall story, but I don't think it will be tied in with the North in any way.

ETA: Do we know what for a certainty?

[Britisher]

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Sansa retaking WF with LF and Vale army is fanfic. It has to ignore Stannis with a plan at the Ice Lakes, ignore Manderly has his Rickon agenda, ignore pretty much all the Lords in the North already being in the thick of it, with those in the castle having only a so-so alliance with Roose. WF will be taken before Jon is resurrected, perhaps even stabbed (if the Pink Letter was written by a Stannis ally). Stannis will then have his eye on gathering an army to move South for his Westeros campaign. Only then does the Vale army become of interest, and then he'd rather have them strike out from the Vale, rather than travel North.

I am (and have been) convinced that Sansa will retake Winterfell for some time now due to the snow castle chapter, but we can agree to disagree on that. 

[sweetsunray]

4 minutes ago, Britisher said:

Another side thought: perhaps Lord Wyman Manderly is working with Littlefinger to eradicate any challenges to Sansa's claim on the North (Bran and Rickon).

Why the hell would Manderly do that? He gains more by having Rickon and marry him to his daughter so she can be Queen in the North than helping Sansa who's still married to Lannister. Not to mention that he's already working Glover, whose House has just been liberated by Stannis.

[Britisher]

2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

The idea that the Umbers or Manderly or Stannis would ally themselves with LF is completely absurd to me. 

Aurane Waters has set himself up on Torture's Deep (Stepstones). He is now a 'pirate king' and styles himself Lord of the Waters. His stolen fleet will no doubt play a part in the overall story, but I don't think it will be tied in with the North in any way.

ETA: Do we know what for a certainty?

That the Umbers have no control over the fleet/part of the fleet?

[kissdbyfire]

7 minutes ago, Britisher said:

Another side thought: perhaps Lord Wyman Manderly is working with Littlefinger to eradicate any challenges to Sansa's claim on the North (Bran and Rickon).

Sorry but what? What are you basing this on? 

[sweetsunray]

4 minutes ago, Britisher said:

I am (and have been) convinced that Sansa will retake Winterfell for some time now due to the snow castle chapter, but we can agree to disagree on that. 

It's a dream... and the dream gets smashed. The whole snow castle chapter starts out with a dream. A nice dream. Then LF 'helps' her and allies with her and advizes her on that dream, because he dreams of the same thing. And then the dream gets smashed. You're just picking out of that chapter what you prefer without taking in the complete picture.

You completely ignore the current political, military and ongoing situation in the North, in this Sansa will retake WF scenario. And the fact that LF doesn't even plan to make such a military move even for the coming years.

[Britisher]

1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

Why the hell would Manderly do that? He gains more by having Rickon and marry him to his daughter so she can be Queen in the North than helping Sansa who's still married to Lannister. Not to mention that he's already working Glover, whose House has just been liberated by Stannis.

You mean his granddaughter?

Or he might marry himself to Sansa that he might produce another child to carry on his name through male heirs, making his family the Kings of the North.

[Britisher]

6 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Sorry but what? What are you basing this on? 

It's just crackpot

[sweetsunray]

12 minutes ago, Britisher said:

You mean his granddaughter?

Or he might marry himself to Sansa that he might produce another child to carry on his name through male heirs, making his family the Kings of the North.

I mean Wylis' daughter. Wyman at this moment is bleeding heavily from a cut of his throat in WF. He doesn't even mean to return to White Harbor alive. Wyman is on a suicide mission to sabotage Roose and certainly the Freys so that his son and heir in White Harbor will be the new lord. And Wylis has a wife, and Sansa's marriage is not yet annulled - which can only happen if and when Tyrion returns, stands before a High Septon, etc... That'll take at least another book, before Tyrion is back. And the North isn't gonna wait for Sansa, for LF, for Tyrion to oust the Boltons.

That's why Sansa retakes WF for the Starks and ousts the Boltons is fanfic - it takes one characters' hope and has everybody else's arc, basically 2 continents on hold for her to pick up factions like some handy playmobil army standing about. And that's just not how George writes at all. It's why he dropped the 5 year gap, because it would have put the entire North and KL and the RL and Ironborn on hold.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

3 minutes ago, Britisher said:

 

9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Sorry but what? What are you basing this on? 

It's just crackpot

 

I don't think it even qualifies as crackpot tbh mate, you've just plucked it from the air (crackpot theories tend to have some theory behind them). It's a complete misreading of Manderly's character and motivation, and goes entirely against the plot as we know it. Manderly has zero motivation to kill off the Stark boys. Even if you consider him cold and calculating (which he's not, he actually has an emotional and humane side to him), there is no reason to kill Rickon or Bran. His main rivals are the Boltons and the Freys, the existence of Stark heirs is clearly to his benefit. Plus, like I said, he *is not* simply cold and calculating - he's a player, yes, and can be ruthless, obviously, but he is loyal to the Starks and has honour. 

[kissdbyfire]

9 minutes ago, Britisher said:

That the Umbers have no control over the fleet/part of the fleet?

Yes, I'd say so. The Umbers still in the north are at Winterfell, one inside and one outside. Manderly tells Davos he has been building warships for over a year; and Davos himself notes Manderly has more ships than the ones that are visible.

Why would part of this fleet be with under the Umbers' command? Umbers that, as I pointed out, are at Winterfell? And the Last Hearth is landlocked, and there's only a river nearby. What would be the point? These ships were built initially b/c of the Wot5K, therefore it makes the most sense for the whole fleet to be with Manderly. The Umbers provided the wood, that's pretty much it. 

“That jetty wall conceals the inner harbor, he realized, as the Merry Midwife was pulling down her sail. The outer harbor was larger, but the inner harbor offered better anchorage, sheltered by the city wall on one side and the looming mass of the Wolf’s Den on another, and now by the jetty wall as well. At Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, Cotter Pyke told Davos that Lord Wyman was building war galleys. There could have been a score of ships concealed behind those walls, waiting only a command to put to sea."

“Perhaps you understand, then.” Wyman Manderly lurched ponderously to his feet. “I have been building warships for more than a year. Some you saw, but there are as many more hidden up the White Knife. Even with the losses I have suffered, I still command more heavy horse than any other lord north of the Neck. My walls are strong, and my vaults are full of silver. Oldcastle and Widow’s Watch will take their lead from me. My bannermen include a dozen petty lords and a hundred landed knights. I can deliver King Stannis the allegiance of all the lands east of the White Knife, from Widow’s Watch and Ramsgate to the Sheepshead Hills and the headwaters of the Broken Branch. All this I pledge to do if you will meet my price.”

[Britisher]

5 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

I don't think it even qualifies as crackpot tbh mate, you've just plucked it from the air (crackpot theories tend to have some theory behind them). It's a complete misreading of Manderly's character and motivation, and goes entirely against the plot as we know it. Manderly has zero motivation to kill off the Stark boys. Even if you consider him cold and calculating (which he's not, he actually has an emotional and humane side to him), there is no reason to kill Rickon or Bran. His main rivals are the Boltons and the Freys, the existence of Stark heirs is clearly to his benefit. Plus, like I said, he *is not* simply cold and calculating - he's a player, yes, and can be ruthless, obviously, but he is loyal to the Starks and has honour. 

Yes I do not even believe it myself, just one possibility of many !