Sansa: A passion for Killing. The New "psycho"?

[Le Cygne]

It's a seriously messed up storyline, that's for sure.

[kimim]

4 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

In the books, I think finding out what LF did to Jeyne will be big, too. On the show, it should be big that he pimped her out to the Boltons, and she told Jon. LF should be in irons, at the very least, not free to cause more trouble. She's behaving bizarrely, but so are the rest of them to just let him go free. None of this is realistic or in any way believable.

Also LF framed her for regicide, thanks to him, she has a price on her head.

But she has (atm) no reason to suspect him of being openly treacherous. She doesn't know that he betrayed Ned. All she knows is that he rescued her from KL and saved her life when Lysa was trying to kill her. I could never really buy that LF would not know about Ramsay's peculiarities, but per the show, he really didn't. He also didn't drag Sansa kicking and screaming to the Boltons; she went of her free will. I think Sansa believes he made a mistake. She's angry and disgusted with him, but against that there is the fact that he saved her life twice, and brought her the Vale army. atm, she has no reason to want him in irons.

When she finds out what he really is and what he really did to her family, my hope is that she feeds him to starving pooches.

[Meera of Tarth]

I don't think that Sansa will become so dark. It was just a guess based on the ending of the Battle, but I don't really think she will be killing people or something like that. She might become LF's ally, but that would be at  the most, and I don't think it would last long.

[Le Cygne]

LF framed Sansa for regicide and kidnapped her. He murdered Dontos. He set crazy Lysa off by kissing Sansa, then murdered Lysa. He gave Sansa the choice of being his girlfriend ("you know what I want") or taking her chances with strangers, after he isolated her by putting a price on her head. Then he pimped her out to the Boltons ("I'll leave that to the brothel keeper"), she herself called LF a "brothel keeper" while telling him what Ramsay did to her. She told LF you are either an "idiot" or "my enemy." And that's just what she knows.

Also the army is Sweetrobin's, not LF's, LF had to ask Sweetrobin for it, and Sweetrobin said he sent the army because "she's my cousin." All Sansa had to do was tell Jon the truth, and tell Bronze Yohn (who mistrusts LF) the truth, and the army would have been at her disposal. It makes no sense for her to have anything to do with LF after all of this, and no sense for Jon to let the man who "sold her to the Boltons" - which is what she told him - go free. This is all to play up the drama and keep LF alive longer, before he is killed next season.

[kimim]

2 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

LF framed Sansa for regicide and kidnapped her. He murdered Dontos. He set crazy Lysa off by kissing Sansa, then murdered Lysa. He gave Sansa the choice of being his girlfriend ("you know what I want") or taking her chances with strangers, after he isolated her by putting a price on her head. Then he pimped her out to the Boltons ("I'll leave that to the brothel keeper"), she herself called LF a "brothel keeper" while telling him what Ramsay did to her. She told LF you are either an "idiot" or "my enemy." And that's just what she knows.

Also the army is Sweetrobin's, not LF's, LF had to ask Sweetrobin for it, and Sweetrobin said he sent the army because "she's my cousin." All Sansa had to do was tell Jon the truth, and tell Bronze Yohn (who mistrusts LF) the truth, and the army would have been at her disposal. It makes no sense for her to have anything to do with LF after all of this, and no sense for Jon to let the man who "sold her to the Boltons" - which is what she told him - go free. This is all to play up the drama and keep LF alive longer, before he is killed next season.

Sansa knows far less than the readers/viewers do.

• Sansa can't possibly think of what LF did as "framing her for regicide," as she doesn't know that he framed Tyrion (hence Sansa) for Joff's murder. She does know that he was involved in Joff's murder, something that can't cause her much pain.
• She doesn't think of leaving with LF as a "kidnapping," as she goes willingly. She believes he's rescuing her from Cersei.
• He proves to her that Dontos was in it for the gold, hence unreliable. Dontos is a liability who can't be allowed to live.
• He kisses Sansa, which is how she knows what he wants. Other than that very creepy scene, he does not force himself upon her and never gives her a choice of "fuck me, or leave." He can't afford that; he needs her to trust him.
• He suggests that she marry Ramsay as part of taking revenge for her family. He does not threaten her into the marriage; there's no "marry him or else." She goes to WF of her free will.
• According to the show, LF did not know that Ramsay was a sadist. Sansa feels sold and used, strikes out with "you're either an idiot or my enemy," but I think that at this point, it's hard for her to turn against him completely. After Blackwater, LF was the only person she felt she could trust, which is partly why she agreed to marry Ramsay. She trusted him. He let her down, but he still brought her an army. When she sees Jon after the meeting, she is spouting the ideas he planted in her: He's a bastard. She is the Stark.
• LF blackballs Bronze Yohn into going north by manipulating Sweetrobin. I think it's a good thing that Sansa doesn't put LF into irons, as imo without LF's hold on Robin, Yohn would not risk lives for Jon and a bunch of wildlings. 
• In Winds, LF gives Sansa advice, and she seems to be listening. I don't think she's forgiven him or trusts him as she did before the Bolton ordeal, but LF and Sansa have been allies, the way she and Jon have never been. LF saved her life twice. He brought her the Vale, giving her the means to win back WF. Without him, with just Jon, everyone would be dead. Sansa knows that. I don't think Sansa has any faith in Jon as a leader. I think she trusts him no more than she trusts LF.

Re the army: Yes, all Sansa had to do was tell Jon. But she did not. This is where my difficulties with the last season start. Her actions make sense to me only as a complicated game: She wanted to use the Boltons to weaken Jon, then used the Vale to wipe out the Boltons. If this was her plan, of course she wouldn't tell Jon.

 

 

[Ashes Of Westeros]

In the books Sansa reflects that LF has never been a friend of her, because he never stand up for her. She realizes that LF persuades his own interest in the first place, though he won't her because he is attracted to her (and because she's a valueble asset).

I guess we should take ST's interviews about Sansa with a pinch of salt. She gives interviews to push speculations and mantain interest of viewers, not to spill the beans. Kit Harington used to say JS was dead before season 6 premiered.

[Le Cygne]

Show LF to Sansa: "You don't want the queen to hear, do you? The gold cloaks are searching for you. And if they found you, how do you think they would punish the girl who murdered the king?"  When framed her for regicide and kidnapped her, she said he couldn't be trusted. He put a price on her head, that's why she disguised herself as Alayne. He tricked her into wearing the murder weapon used to kill the king, then having her flee the scene of the murder, leaving her no option but to go with Dontos, who she didn't know was taking her to LF. She was his pawn, and then he murdered his other pawn in front of her, in cold blood.

He put a price on her head and isolated her, killing her aunt after he made her jealous by kissing her, she was forced to stay with him or strangers, and he made it clear he wanted more ("I know what you want." "Do you?") He tricked her when he took her to the Boltons, she didn't know until she was surrounded by troops in enemy territory. He pimped her out, then he kissed her after she told him she didn't want to be left there. She called him a "brothel keeper" and said "I don't believe you anymore" and "you can't protect me" and "if you didn't know you are an idiot, if you did know you are my enemy."

He deceived her and risked her life repeatedly. She said in the finale, "Only a fool would trust Littlefinger." There was never trust, in the books she said he's lying to her, and she's lying to him, she's playing a role; on the show, she thinks she's playing him, but she is in over her head. This is all a contrivance for faux drama. If she had been honest with Jon, and there's no real reason she would not be, they could have thrown LF in irons where he belongs, and claimed the troops Sweetrobin sent for her ("she's my cousin"). LF also deceived Bronze Yohn, and Yohn pledged for the Starks and would protect Sweetrobin's cousin.

Also another show quote. His head on a spike. They like to telegraph. 

Quote

LF: You don't want the queen to hear, do you? The gold cloaks are searching for you. And if they found you, how do you think they would punish the girl who murdered the king?

Sansa: I didn't murder anyone.

LF: I know. I know. But you must admit it looks suspicious. The king who executed your father, who tormented you for years, and you fled the scene of his murder...

Sansa: Did you kill Joffrey?

LF: Did I kill Joffrey? I've been in the Vale for weeks.

Sansa: I know it was you.

LF: And who helped me with this conspiracy?

Sansa: Well, there was Ser Dontos. You used him to get me out of King's Landing, but you would never trust him to kill the king.

LF: He wasn't involved in Joffrey's death. But you were. Do you remember that lovely necklace Dontos gave you? I don't suppose you noticed that a stone was missing after the feast.

Sansa: I don't believe you. If they catch you, they'll put your head on a spike just like my father's.

 

[Le Cygne]

4 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

In the books Sansa reflects that LF has never been a friend of her, because he never stand up for her. She realizes that LF persuades his own interest in the first place, though he won't her because he is attracted to her (and because she's a valueble asset).

I guess we should take ST's interviews about Sansa with a pinch of salt. She gives interviews to push speculations and mantain interest of viewers, not to spill the beans. Kit Harington used to say JS was dead before season 6 premiered.

Agree, books and show, she's very wary of him. She thinks she can play him, and is in over her head. But that's already played out on the show, so I doubt they will spend much time on this. They want to keep LF in play longer for a dramatic death next season. I think there may be a different Hound killing her enemies this time.

[GhostNymeria]

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

They want to keep LF in play longer for a dramatic death next season. I think there may be a different Hound killing her enemies this time.

Imagine the look on Littlefinger's face if Sansa chooses Sandor as her lover/partner over him. Cat choosing Brandon the heir to Winterfell over him was one thing, but Sansa choosing a low birth Clegane with half his face burned off over him would be ten times worse I sincerely hope we get to see that before he dies.

[Le Cygne]

Just now, GhostNymeria said:

Imagine the look on Littlefinger's face if Sansa chooses Sandor as her lover/partner over him. Cat choosing Brandon the heir to Winterfell over him was one thing, but Sansa choosing a low birth Clegane with half his face burned off over him would be ten times worse I sincerely hope we get to see that before he dies.

Oh yeah, another nice touch, as LF dies, she says, "Only Sandor."  

[GhostNymeria]

1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

Oh yeah, another nice touch, as LF dies, she says, "Only Sandor."  

[MoreOrLess]

19 hours ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

Exactly, as a woman it's disgusting to me to see a woman is displaying that kind of attitude and the world turns around and call her innocent interesting etc. A whiny and untruthful and bossy woman is the last stereotype of woman I would want to see as being the heroine of the show. It's disgusting in all way. If you want something voice it out, not staying in the dark and get mad that you don't get the attention.

It is disgusting that the writers think this kind of women will be the heroine. If they turn her into another pyscho, a second Cersei then it makes sense. But a heroine who has the most disgusting stereotype of woman to rule until the end, I just want to to scream. I hate it so much.  

She does have considerable reason to be "whiney" though, someone who has been abused like that having an extreme fear(in this case well justified) of her abuser makes sense. She does actually give Jon good advice, avoid falling into Ramsay's traps and consider Rickon already dead, however heartless the latter might seem it was a correct judgement.

I suspect that we won't see open conflict between Jon and Sansa but rather that both of them will naturally focus on the threats that they've experienced, Jon on the Walkers/Others and Sansa on the politics to the south. I wouldn't actually be supprised if they spilt up next season to those ends, Sansa potentially travels south with LF to the Vale/Riverlands or maybe Jon goes north to the Wall and she deals with politics at Winterfell whilst he potentially meets Bran and looks to organise a defence of the Wall.

Morally I suspect Sansa will show a bit more of a ruthless political edge but will not development the same extreme bloodlust as Ayra outside of Ramsay. I can potentially see her having a "happy ever after" kind of ending or at least ending up living a stable life afterwards where as I'm not sure I can with Ayra.

[Masha]

52 minutes ago, MoreOrLess said:

She does have considerable reason to be "whiney" though, someone who has been abused like that having an extreme fear(in this case well justified) of her abuser makes sense. She does actually give Jon good advice, avoid falling into Ramsay's traps and consider Rickon already dead, however heartless the latter might seem it was a correct judgement.

I suspect that we won't see open conflict between Jon and Sansa but rather that both of them will naturally focus on the threats that they've experienced, Jon on the Walkers/Others and Sansa on the politics to the south. I wouldn't actually be supprised if they spilt up next season to those ends, Sansa potentially travels south with LF to the Vale/Riverlands or maybe Jon goes north to the Wall and she deals with politics at Winterfell whilst he potentially meets Bran and looks to organise a defence of the Wall.

Morally I suspect Sansa will show a bit more of a ruthless political edge but will not development the same extreme bloodlust as Ayra outside of Ramsay. I can potentially see her having a "happy ever after" kind of ending or at least ending up living a stable life afterwards where as I'm not sure I can with Ayra.

I suspect that D&D will also do a bit of fake out to add to Jon and Sansa's "rivalry" to add to suspense or "oh no's" only for it to be revealed as fakeout or Sansa's trap for LF

[Back in Black-Snow]

On 07/23/2016 at 9:23 AM, House_Tony_Stark said:

Sophie does not seem to have any insider details. Her comments come off as a fan rooting for her team to win. Of course she wants to elevate her character. And of course she wants to put the man who will elevate her character on the throne.

This is what I think. Sophie Turner probably has no idea what is in store for her character. And even if she does, it is her job to say certain things in the off season (ie. Jon is dead and not come back). I presume that she is setting the audience up for what will "appear" to be a sort of alliance with Little Finger. In the end it will be Sansa tricking Little Finger and killing him/having him killed so that Jon will be free of that threat and can move on to the next and most important threat.

They have played with and mislead the audience (at least in the off season) since the beginning. Only now, and this past season (6), the book readers are not able to call Bullshit.

[yourgrace]

I agree. I think what Sophie Turner or any of them say on panels, interviews etc should not be taken too seriously. They can't tell us whats going to happen and they probably don't even know themselves. I think Sansa has learned how to be a manipulator from LF and her story might lead us to wonder...ooo who's side is she on? etc...and use what she's learned from him to orchestrate his downfall. I really dont see her going down some dark path or turning on Jon or her family. I think/hope we'll see her grow and become a force for the good.

[House_Tony_Stark]

23 hours ago, kimim said:

Sansa knows far less than the readers/viewers do.

• Sansa can't possibly think of what LF did as "framing her for regicide," as she doesn't know that he framed Tyrion (hence Sansa) for Joff's murder. She does know that he was involved in Joff's murder, something that can't cause her much pain.
• She doesn't think of leaving with LF as a "kidnapping," as she goes willingly. She believes he's rescuing her from Cersei.
• He proves to her that Dontos was in it for the gold, hence unreliable. Dontos is a liability who can't be allowed to live.
• He kisses Sansa, which is how she knows what he wants. Other than that very creepy scene, he does not force himself upon her and never gives her a choice of "fuck me, or leave." He can't afford that; he needs her to trust him.
• He suggests that she marry Ramsay as part of taking revenge for her family. He does not threaten her into the marriage; there's no "marry him or else." She goes to WF of her free will.
• According to the show, LF did not know that Ramsay was a sadist. Sansa feels sold and used, strikes out with "you're either an idiot or my enemy," but I think that at this point, it's hard for her to turn against him completely. After Blackwater, LF was the only person she felt she could trust, which is partly why she agreed to marry Ramsay. She trusted him. He let her down, but he still brought her an army. When she sees Jon after the meeting, she is spouting the ideas he planted in her: He's a bastard. She is the Stark.
• LF blackballs Bronze Yohn into going north by manipulating Sweetrobin. I think it's a good thing that Sansa doesn't put LF into irons, as imo without LF's hold on Robin, Yohn would not risk lives for Jon and a bunch of wildlings. 
• In Winds, LF gives Sansa advice, and she seems to be listening. I don't think she's forgiven him or trusts him as she did before the Bolton ordeal, but LF and Sansa have been allies, the way she and Jon have never been. LF saved her life twice. He brought her the Vale, giving her the means to win back WF. Without him, with just Jon, everyone would be dead. Sansa knows that. I don't think Sansa has any faith in Jon as a leader. I think she trusts him no more than she trusts LF.

Re the army: Yes, all Sansa had to do was tell Jon. But she did not. This is where my difficulties with the last season start. Her actions make sense to me only as a complicated game: She wanted to use the Boltons to weaken Jon, then used the Vale to wipe out the Boltons. If this was her plan, of course she wouldn't tell Jon.

 

 

I think we are reaching when we make a game. It's simply just too late with 14 episodes. 

The reality is just she was mad and made a dumb decision.

[tibetseheri]

I highly doubt that Sansa will go psycho, but I strongly believe that she will be going on a slightly darker path. It's clear that LF will be able to manipulate him in the end, because it seems clear that Sansa was not very happy when Jon was crowned ''King in the North''. Or the story might go completely different with Sansa being ok with Jon being the King, and helping him out in ruling. Although Jon will probably want to get ready for the Winter and the invasion of the White Walkers, However I believe that S7 will be about the fight for the Iron Throne and the more humane stuff, where S8 will cover the Conflict with the White Walkers.

[dancinglion]

sansa knows how to play a game??? she is smarter then jon?? she will outplay LF?? HAHAHA 

are we talking about the same character who got herself locked in a castle. forced to marry dwarf. and as soon as she breaks out got herself to marry a psycho, locked in a room and got raped and beaten on regular basis.. she dont know shit about politics. little lyanna put her in place and davos wipe floors with her.. she still came across as stupid as season 1. only game she is playing is how to kill your family through stupidity ..

[Winterstars]

I think she will be a new villain, not a psycho.

It will be interesting if a Stark can be a villain, tho.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

On 7/24/2016 at 11:16 PM, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

It is disgusting that the writers think this kind of women will be the heroine. If they turn her into another pyscho, a second Cersei then it makes sense. But a heroine who has the most disgusting stereotype of woman to rule until the end, I just want to to scream. I hate it so much.  

If you hate it so much you probably should stop watching it
The show and the books are works of fiction, it's main thing is portraying different characters and events, not setting role models. Sure it could, but it isn't the main purpose of fiction.