Sansa: A passion for Killing. The New "psycho"?

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

i'm really hoping they don't fuck her up.... she is one of the few actual ladies left on the show that doesn't have a stomach for violence. Ramsey can be a one off and tbh she didn't even stay to watch him get mauled so this in it's own shows she does not enjoy watching or taking part but knew it needed to be done.

 

 i still predict.

 

Dany = Queen in kings landing ( ruler of all )

Sansa = lady of winterfell

Jon = lord of castle black ( with changes about being married n such )

Tyrion = lord of westerlands

jorah = hand of the queen

greyworm = leader of kingsgaurd

sam = head maester in citidel

 

Ah, but remember, Sandra did step back in to watch Ramsay be eaten. This was after she already watched for a minute as one of the dogs tore his chin and face off. She walked away smirking and head held high, as opposed to, say, holding her stomach or covering her mouth and running* away. 

*a swift walk is also acceptable. 

[kimim]

I think "psycho" doesn't work here, as this is a world where nobility has no problem killing or destroying lives to get their way. Sansa is, simply, grown up, a typical Westerosi lady now.

As for being more able than Jon: This is something the show hinted at way back at the end of season 4, when Sansa successfully lied to the Lords Declarant, then wore the black "mockingbird" dress to show that she was lady LF. The show, sadly, did nothing with this, and she went back to damsel in distress in season 5. In season 6, the show hinted that Sansa was playing games against Jon: Gave up on Rickon, hid meeting LF, hid the Vale. The show never developed this through dialogue, leaving it up to the audience to read into Sansa's expressions.

I thought the ending was enough to make Sansa rethink LF's offer. She got no credit for the victory against the Boltons, when Jon led his men to disaster, and she, not Jon, won the victory thanks to the Vale. It turned out that Jon's bad decisions on the day of the battle meant nothing. His bastardy meant nothing. He was declared the King, which made Sansa's role as Lady of Winterfell a nominal one, at best.

So I expect her to consider LF's plots. I hope the show hands her some dialogue; standing around looking thoughtful is not enough. I also don't expect that to last. Bran can see the past and has already had visions about his father's beheading. I think he will find out about LF's betrayal of Ned. At which point, LF is toast.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

2 hours ago, DutchArya said:

And Bran and Arya? 

Bran = doing his 3 eyed raven thing and arya = vigilante/sell sword... i think she might become one of the most feared warriors in westeros.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Ah, but remember, Sandra did step back in to watch Ramsay be eaten. This was after she already watched for a minute as one of the dogs tore his chin and face off. She walked away smirking and head held high, as opposed to, say, holding her stomach or covering her mouth and running* away. 

*a swift walk is also acceptable. 

yeah but he was one of if not the most despicable humans she has ever encountered, i think her watching him being mauled was the equivalent of watching a demon being destroyed. I doubt she would be so keen to watch someone a little more humane being mauled like that.

[kimim]

7 minutes ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

yeah but he was one of if not the most despicable humans she has ever encountered, i think her watching him being mauled was the equivalent of watching a demon being destroyed. I doubt she would be so keen to watch someone a little more humane being mauled like that.

Yeah, I didn't see a problem there. I would have happily watched him get eaten by the dogs he allowed to starve for a week. Bastard!!!!!!!!

Anyway, he deserved it. There was no reason for her to walk off and gag, and the doggies got a good meal, too.

My main problem with Sansa this season was the lack of dialogue. I like Turner as an actress, but there's only so much anyone can do with their facial expressions. LET HER SAY SOMETHING, TO SOMEONE. Let her talk about her motives, her feelings. It's ridiculous.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

3 minutes ago, kimim said:

Yeah, I didn't see a problem there. I would have happily watched him get eaten by the dogs he allowed to starve for a week. Bastard!!!!!!!!

Anyway, he deserved it. There was no reason for her to walk off and gag, and the doggies got a good meal, too.

My main problem with Sansa this season was the lack of dialogue. I like Turner as an actress, but there's only so much anyone can do with their facial expressions. LET HER SAY SOMETHING, TO SOMEONE. Let her talk about her motives, her feelings. It's ridiculous.

I think she has just learnt that saying nothing is sometimes the best way to get on in life back then esp for Woman with no protection, When she has shared any emotion or thoughts people have manipulated/used it her against her, if you don't let people know what you're thinking they can't figure you out or learn anything to use against you.

Maergery was the perfect example of smiling and nodding and not letting her true feelings be known and it kept her safe until an unforseen mass murder got her.

She had nearly got herself out of the whole sparrow situation just by going along with what they said and not letting her true thoughts be known.

And she survived Joffrey with the same skill.

[The Fattest Leech]

1 minute ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

yeah but he was one of if not the most despicable humans she has ever encountered, i think her watching him being mauled was the equivalent of watching a demon being destroyed. I doubt she would be so keen to watch someone a little more humane being mauled like that.

I was referring to this part of your quote: she didn't even stay to watch him get mauled so this in it's own shows she does not enjoy watching or taking part but knew it needed to be done.

She did stay to watch him get mauled. And yes, I do think she found enjoyment in it because Ramsay is despicable. What happened to the young daughter of Ned Stark that was so devout and religious and always armored her self with her lady-armor, which is her courtesies. Not saying showSansa had to be nice to Ramsay, but how she stayed and watched, and leaned back in to watch, and walked away proud of herself seems to show how showSansa has changed.

Sansa didn't even take the time acknowledge her dead baby brother when he was brought in off the battlefield.

Same with Arya and the Frey Pies. Arya gave a scary, blank smirk with that one. The showrunners have ruined the idea of old gods and honor. I think it was Weiss that described the idea of honor as something that burdens people, instead of honor being integrity on behalf of a person's actions or beliefs.

[The Fattest Leech]

2 minutes ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

I think she has just learnt that saying nothing is sometimes the best way to get on in life back then esp for Woman with no protection, When she has shared any emotion or thoughts people have manipulated/used it her against her, if you don't let people know what you're thinking they can't figure you out or learn anything to use against you.

Like when she sat silent at Jon's war councel, then yelled at Jon because he didn't ask her anything, so Jon asks her what she knows- what should he do different, and the she says, basically, she doesn't know because she knows nothing about war?

This is THE WORST way for a woman to get respect... sit and smirk! Are you kidding me?

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

3 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I was referring to this part of your quote: she didn't even stay to watch him get mauled so this in it's own shows she does not enjoy watching or taking part but knew it needed to be done.

She did stay to watch him get mauled. And yes, I do think she found enjoyment in it because Ramsay is despicable. What happened to the young daughter of Ned Stark that was so devout and religious and always armored her self with her lady-armor, which is her courtesies. Not saying showSansa had to be nice to Ramsay, but how she stayed and watched, and leaned back in to watch, and walked away proud of herself seems to show how showSansa has changed.

Sansa didn't even take the time acknowledge her dead baby brother when he was brought in off the battlefield.

Same with Arya and the Frey Pies. Arya gave a scary, blank smirk with that one. The showrunners have ruined the idea of old gods and honor. I think it was Weiss that described the idea of honor as something that burdens people, instead of honor being integrity on behalf of a person's actions or beliefs.

I think she has just lost a bit of the innocence she had being sheltered in Winterfell playing with dolls and where everything was black and white, being surrounded by schemers and pyschos would change anyone to be more guardful if they were smart, but i don't think she has became a sadist or psycho nor Arya.

Regarding her Brother i just think she has became numb as has Arya, it has been death after death of their family members that before they can finish grieving one of them another has been killed... almost surreal/dream state like.

I may be wrong and she has lost all compassion and morals, but the change from caring about others and not wanting to see harm done even if it puts herself at risk to being an all out cold blooded all for herself fcuk everyone else would be to fast a shift if were going by what we've seen in the show.

 

It wasn't long ago she pleaded with LF not to kill the Courts Clown.... maybe she has just went fcuk it... people die and if i want to live i've got accept and put myself first..

[kimim]

8 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Like when she sat silent at Jon's war councel, then yelled at Jon because he didn't ask her anything, so Jon asks her what she knows- what should he do different, and the she says, basically, she doesn't know because she knows nothing about war?

This is THE WORST way for a woman to get respect... sit and smirk! Are you kidding me?

ita. Sansa was not making sense, which is why I've created by own take on her. She determines that Jon is a typical Stark: Brave, honorable, zero practical sense. She works to undo him: Sends away LF, knowing he won't go far. She knows Jon won't get much backing from the Northern lords, as he's leading a bunch of wildlings against another Northern lord. When she's certain that Jon's outnumbered by Bolton, she writes to LF and calls for the Vale in secret. She lets Jon undo his own strategy over Rickon, waits for the Boltons to kill off most of Jon's wildlings, then calls in the Vale to kill off the Boltons. Voila! She won the battle, Rickon, ahead of her in line for Winterfell is dead, and Jon's army has suffered heavy losses. She might even believe that Jon's dead, as he had disappeared under a mass of bodies for a long time.

Then the unexpected happens: The idiot Northern lords declare Jon king in the North. At which point, she looks at LF, possibly acknowledging that he was right all along.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

2 minutes ago, kimim said:

ita. Sansa was not making sense, which is why I've created by own take on her. She determines that Jon is a typical Stark: Brave, honorable, zero practical sense. She works to undo him: Sends away LF, knowing he won't go far. She knows Jon won't get much backing from the Northern lords, as he's leading a bunch of wildlings against another Northern lord. When she's certain that Jon's outnumbered by Bolton, she writes to LF and calls for the Vale in secret. She lets Jon undo his own strategy over Rickon, waits for the Boltons to kill off most of Jon's wildlings, then calls in the Vale to kill off the Boltons. Voila! She won the battle.

Then the unexpected happens: The idiot Northern lords declare Jon king in the North. At which point, she looks at LF, possibly acknowledging that he was right all along.

This irks me a lot because up till now she has never shown any interest in power or being in charge, she just wanted to marry a prince fall in love and be loved back regardless of who or where, she had power with Joffrey, sure he got rid of her for Maergery but she was happy as she smiled when it was announced, she would have been queen of all if she had played the good wife like Maergery had played, the prospect of a lesser position marrying Loras who was kind and the prince she had always dreamed of appealed more to her.

So this recent events were she seems to be plotting with LF to remove Jon doesn't fit at all.

[The Fattest Leech]

2 minutes ago, kimim said:

ita. Sansa was not making sense, which is why I've created by own take on her. She determines that Jon is a typical Stark: Brave, honorable, zero practical sense. She works to undo him: Sends away LF, knowing he won't go far. She knows Jon won't get much backing from the Northern lords, as he's leading a bunch of wildlings against another Northern lord. When she's certain that Jon's outnumbered by Bolton, she writes to LF and calls for the Vale in secret. She lets Jon undo his own strategy over Rickon, waits for the Boltons to kill off most of Jon's wildlings, then calls in the Vale to kill off the Boltons. Voila! She won the battle.

Then the unexpected happens: The idiot Northern lords declare Jon king in the North. At which point, she looks at LF, possibly acknowledging that he was right all along.

This, alone, makes her a psycho. She saw LF killer her aunt Lysa and heard what Lysa admitted to just before she flew to her death.

So, if Sansa is willing letting her family fail, or undo themselves, and waits for her brothers men to die, then yes, she she is headed down a dark path.

And that sucks, because she should be looking to rebuild her family and it's home and the godswood and asking who "some man" actually is and giving a fuck about her little sister, setting a scene for the arrival of her non-knight in shining armor, and most of all, learning from the evil she has witnessed since she left Winterfell and knowing better and doing better.

THAT would be more consistent in character development.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

2 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

This, alone, makes her a psycho. She saw LF killer her aunt Lysa and heard what Lysa admitted to just before she flew to her death.

So, if Sansa is willing letting her family fail, or undo themselves, and waits for her brothers men to die, then yes, she she is headed down a dark path.

And that sucks, because she should be looking to rebuild her family and it's home and the godswood and asking who "some man" actually is and giving a fuck about her little sister, setting a scene for the arrival of her non-knight in shining armor, and most of all, learning from the evil she has witnessed since she left Winterfell and knowing better and doing better.

THAT would be more consistent in character development.

Yup I don't think she is actually siding with LF i think she is just playing him, to later catch him off guard.

She had learnt how to play the game from LF and going to use what she has learnt to be his undoing, Theres no way she is gonna risk a safe place next to Jon who she knows would do her no harm, to side with a man she doesn't trust or feel safe with, her whole story up till now has been trying to get somewhere safe from harm, would be ridiculous to think now she is finally home with family and surrounded by loyal bannermen she would throw that all away for power that she has never shwon any interest in.

[kimim]

1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

This, alone, makes her a psycho. She saw LF killer her aunt Lysa and heard what Lysa admitted to just before she flew to her death.

So, if Sansa is willing letting her family fail, or undo themselves, and waits for her brothers men to die, then yes, she she is headed down a dark path.

And that sucks, because she should be looking to rebuild her family and it's home and the godswood and asking who "some man" actually is and giving a fuck about her little sister, setting a scene for the arrival of her non-knight in shining armor, and most of all, learning from the evil she has witnessed since she left Winterfell and knowing better and doing better.

THAT would be more consistent in character development.

LF killed the woman who was trying to toss HER out the moon door. As far as she's aware, that's the second time he's saved her life. She knows nothing about his betrayal of her father. 

Meanwhile, I was more than tongue-in-cheek with my version of the story. However, I think my version at least explains why Sansa hides LF, why she calls for the Vale in secret. btw she could well be looking to rebuild her family, but from a new Sansa pov. She feels that Starks are looking at a very difficult situation. She feels that Jon is incapable. She might have felt that Rickon was incapable, as he's a little kid. So she works against both.

...which would be very dark, I agree. Again, I'm not being completely serious. I just wish that the show had given Sansa some lines, explaining just wtf she was thinking when she hid both LF and the Vale. Frankly, had she told Jon some days before the battle that the Vale was on its way, I think he would have switched his strategy.

 

[The Fattest Leech]

3 minutes ago, kimim said:

LF killed the woman who was trying to toss HER out the moon door. As far as she's aware, that's the second time he's saved her life. She knows nothing about his betrayal of her father. 

Meanwhile, I was more than tongue-in-cheek with my version of the story. However, I think my version at least explains why Sansa hides LF, why she calls for the Vale in secret. btw she could well be looking to rebuild her family, but from a new Sansa pov. She feels that Starks are looking at a very difficult situation. She feels that Jon is incapable. She might have felt that Rickon was incapable, as he's a little kid. So she works against both.

...which would be very dark, I agree. Again, I'm not being completely serious. I just wish that the show had given Sansa some lines, explaining just wtf she was thinking when she hid both LF and the Vale. Frankly, had she told Jon some days before the battle that the Vale was on its way, I think he would have switched his strategy.

 

Quit true. But instead of normal justice, he kills her and then lies and lies some more about it. That should have been enough for her to question him deeply and not to trust him so much in the future. Sansa/Alayne is figuring LF out now... but she will have some outside interference first.

That should be the clinker for showSansa is she is going to redeem any part of herself, the way she reacts when she finds out about LF and her father's death. I absolutely agree there. But in honor of her father, I hope she would do things the way Ned taught her and not what she picked up from Cersei or LF.

[Adam_Up_Bxtch]

I wouldn't call her a complete Psycho, she still has limits and morals. She has just had people like Tywin, Joffrey, LF and Ramsay around as she is coming of age (the impressionable stage in a child's life), and they have all been rubbing off on her. She's becoming a dangerous player, and even LF won't see her coming in the end.

Tyrion said it back in Season 4 and I'll quote it here as well "Sansa isn't a killer......not yet atleast"

I think the end of the Battle of the Bastards just proved Tyrion's assessment of Sansa right.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

26 minutes ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

I wouldn't call her a complete Psycho, she still has limits and morals. She has just had people like Tywin, Joffrey, LF and Ramsay around as she is coming of age (the impressionable stage in a child's life), and they have all been rubbing off on her. She's becoming a dangerous player, and even LF won't see her coming in the end.

Tyrion said it back in Season 4 and I'll quote it here as well "Sansa isn't a killer......not yet atleast"

I think the end of the Battle of the Bastards just proved Tyrion's assessment of Sansa right.

Funny that i'm rewatching the show and just watched that episode and when Tyrion said this it stood out to me more the second time knowing how she has came on in the show since.

[kimim]

55 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Quit true. But instead of normal justice, he kills her and then lies and lies some more about it. That should have been enough for her to question him deeply and not to trust him so much in the future. Sansa/Alayne is figuring LF out now... but she will have some outside interference first.

That should be the clinker for showSansa is she is going to redeem any part of herself, the way she reacts when she finds out about LF and her father's death. I absolutely agree there. But in honor of her father, I hope she would do things the way Ned taught her and not what she picked up from Cersei or LF.

Both in the show and the novels, the Stark children are heading down dark paths. Arya in the novels kills a man in cold blood, and the fact that he's an insurance dude doesn't justify it. Arya in the show presumably killed a servant girl, took her face, killed two Freys, baked them into a pie, then fed it to Walder Frey before cutting his throat. Ned would not be pleased.

ita that the way Sansa reacts when she finds out about LF and Ned will be a make or break moment. I hope she remembers who her parents were, and does the right thing. And, as ever, I hope the show makers give Sansa some dialogue, so idiots like me can discard depressing and dark takes on her motivations.

Also, there's a limit to how far these "games" can go on. The Walkers are coming. All of these people, including LF and Varys, need to stop playing and deal with the apocalypse, which is nigh.

[Le Cygne]

3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Quit true. But instead of normal justice, he kills her and then lies and lies some more about it. That should have been enough for her to question him deeply and not to trust him so much in the future. Sansa/Alayne is figuring LF out now... but she will have some outside interference first.

That should be the clinker for showSansa is she is going to redeem any part of herself, the way she reacts when she finds out about LF and her father's death. I absolutely agree there. But in honor of her father, I hope she would do things the way Ned taught her and not what she picked up from Cersei or LF.

In the books, I think finding out what LF did to Jeyne will be big, too. On the show, it should be big that he pimped her out to the Boltons, and she told Jon. LF should be in irons, at the very least, not free to cause more trouble. She's behaving bizarrely, but so are the rest of them to just let him go free. None of this is realistic or in any way believable.

Also LF framed her for regicide, thanks to him, she has a price on her head.

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Like when she sat silent at Jon's war councel, then yelled at Jon because he didn't ask her anything, so Jon asks her what she knows- what should he do different, and the she says, basically, she doesn't know because she knows nothing about war?

This is THE WORST way for a woman to get respect... sit and smirk! Are you kidding me?

Exactly, as a woman it's disgusting to me to see a woman is displaying that kind of attitude and the world turns around and call her innocent interesting etc. A whiny and untruthful and bossy woman is the last stereotype of woman I would want to see as being the heroine of the show. It's disgusting in all way. If you want something voice it out, not staying in the dark and get mad that you don't get the attention.

It is disgusting that the writers think this kind of women will be the heroine. If they turn her into another pyscho, a second Cersei then it makes sense. But a heroine who has the most disgusting stereotype of woman to rule until the end, I just want to to scream. I hate it so much.