The Fattest Leech Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 On the meta puppet subject (pardon whiskey fingers) have you ever read Meathouse Man? It is a weird tail about a man In love-ish . I frickin love that story and got to talk to George about it at a little bit of length. That was a dark time for him and I think the Others were created with that in mind. Dark times. And I still think Morlocks, that there is something more because you don't get that "low" and not ask for something more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Runaway Penguin said: Well for one, lack of meat puppets up North at the time of creation. Think Manhattan project: You do not develop superweapon on the frontlines, you do it in safety of your own territory. Far from humans. And then... Well, the story is not clear, but clearly hammer of water and breaking of land bridge did not work (or even were just natural events assigned to CoTF/credited by or to them, same as any major earthquake was seen as gods being angry on Earth). You run your secret weapn and... Find that it is uncontrollable. Flawed. Whatever... In any case, unusable for you (or even gunning for you)... So you seek peace. Again, the long wait for the large problem is natural. If the CoTF thrown in the towel shortly after the Neck becoming swamp (would be natural, last ditch defence breached etc.) - given the size of North, you will need still hundreds if not thousands of years to populate it densely enough to get people far enough North to encounter the Others - be it gradually, skirmishing with the unknown until critical concentration, or be it "Hmm this is weird cave, let's check what's in it... Oh holy crap on a cracker RUN AWA....". Heck, Others might have been busy fighting the CoTF up North and slowly exterminating them all the time. Do not forget that large fast movements of nations (such as Saxon conquest of England) also took significant time - and that was with sizeable populations being pressed out. With the First Men, it would be far more akin to the initial settlement of Eurasia by human hunters-gatherers. With significant setbacks along the way. So from human history PoV, the delay can be explained quite easily by the time it took humans to settle far enough North to arrive at the Others creation labs at Los CotFos That still does not work. The children and humans made peace. Why unleash a weapon 2000 years after a false peace and then help the people you were trying to kill defeat your slow moving weapon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 10 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said: To me and my little whiskey soaked brain, I feel like there is a deeper need to the Others, kinda like the Morlocks (?) from H.G. Wells' Time Machine, just on a wider time-span. A give and take, but as you say, the first time it happened was not the first time ever, just one witnessed by humans and recorded. George was first a more classic sci-fi author before dragons were added and the story starts with an introduction to the Others. What do you mean about the Morlocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Dorian Martell said: What do you mean about the Morlocks? The Morlocks came every few years (few months?) to take the "good" guys away into an underworld and enslaved them. It has been severel years since I have read it, but basically, the Morlocks were the same, yet genetically different, and were plain evil and wanted the Eelio(?) to work for them. I keep thinking of Crasters boys in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 9 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said: What do you mean about the Morlocks? It's basically bad to be bad but withy some meaning behind it. Not too far off from what you proposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 I see. It has been decades since I read the book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 51 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said: That still does not work. The children and humans made peace. Why unleash a weapon 2000 years after a false peace and then help the people you were trying to kill defeat your slow moving weapon? You do not unleash the weapon 2000 years after peace. It just takes so long after the weapon got out of control/got put on ice before enough humans reach the area where the weapon was activated (and got out of hand) for it to become a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 22 minutes ago, Runaway Penguin said: You do not unleash the weapon 2000 years after peace. It just takes so long after the weapon got out of control/got put on ice before enough humans reach the area where the weapon was activated (and got out of hand) for it to become a problem. I can see that point of view. It seems as though the Others can move south within a single season, or the lifetime of a human. The first long night was a winter tat lasted a generation. How far south they got we do not know, but I was not something over several winters and several generations, it was one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 What about Waymar Royce? The Others seem to be targeting him because of his Stark looks. When they challenged Waymar and found him to be a fraud when Royce's sword shattered, the Others laughed at him. There are also a few lines that Craster drops where he sorta reveals he has some communication with the Others, he knows they are looking for a Stark (Jon boy to be precise). Craster notes Jon's Stark looks before he even says word one to Jon. It is after that at the Fist that we see a wight invasion. Wights are disposable to someone with a Valyrian sword and that would reveal who has the sword if a battle happened. But wait, Jon went on an unplanned trip with Qorhin, so the Others lost Jon's trail again, Wah-wah-waahhhh! I think the cache that Ghost led Jon to was hastily placed there by poor uncle Benjen as he was attacked and killed by the Others like Royce was... because we know Benjen has the Stark look. I still feel that this is a little more than just cyclical. Go ahead. Next round is on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said: What about Waymar Royce? The Others seem to be targeting him because of his Stark looks. When they challenged Waymar and found him to be a fraud when Royce's sword shattered, the Others laughed at him. There are also a few lines that Craster drops where he sorta reveals he has some communication with the Others, he knows they are looking for a Stark (Jon boy to be precise). Craster notes Jon's Stark looks before he even says word one to Jon. It is after that at the Fist that we see a wight invasion. Wights are disposable to someone with a Valyrian sword and that would reveal who has the sword if a battle happened. But wait, Jon went on an unplanned trip with Qorhin, so the Others lost Jon's trail again, Wah-wah-waahhhh! I think the cache that Ghost led Jon to was hastily placed there by poor uncle Benjen as he was attacked and killed by the Others like Royce was... because we know Benjen has the Stark look. I still feel that this is a little more than just cyclical. Go ahead. Next round is on you. Waymar was a device to introduce the others to the reader. He was attacked for the same reason that the others attacked the wildlings that the rangers were following. The Others hate all life and want it destroyed. I do think craster is sacrificing his boys to the others but I don't think any particular look is what they are after nor do I think they are tracking Jon. They were tracking hte great ranging, and they sought to eliminate as much of the watch as they could, but they didn't know of the dragonglass cache, and I think it was put there by coldhands. The death of Ser Puddles made them think twice about attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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