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Arya endgame?


TheSeer27

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Can we have a thread where we speculate on the endgame of Arya? My question is, I think its safe to say we generally have an idea where Bran And Jon will fit with their abilities in regards to the endgame of ASOIAF, but what about Arya? How does facechanging fit in to the endgame and what importance will it hold? Why is it so sought after by the Faceless Men? I have a few ideas of my own but would love to hear some really tinfoily ideas on what others might think on the subject. They seem to be leading to Arya killing Cersei, but why make it so complicated? In my opinion Arya seems the most likely of the Stark children left to die soon so before we have TWOW and season 7 lets hear some ideas and theories as to whats in store for Arya.

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There are probably a hundred topics on Arya's endgame.   However, we are between books and seasons so how about you put your ideas out there and let the games begin?    For all it's worth, I think we're supposed to think Arya will be the one to die.    GRRM is a master of misdirection and there is a lot of story left.   Careful with that season 7 stuff, this is the books section of the forums.   Go on then, let's have some fun.   

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I think (probably not a new theory) Arya will die in the pursuit on the last name on her list. Not sure who it will be as I feel like Cersei is the most untouchable but also is not also long for the Westros world. There are others for her to track down. It feels poetic for her to dies as she finishes her list.

 

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She could kill Jaime and then wear his face and kill Cersei boom! Valonqor prophecy comes true :P

Or she could be wearing someone elses face, and is killed by someone close to her, like Jon, thinking that its someone else and not Arya. That'd be pretty emotional considering how tight their bond is.

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9 minutes ago, TheSeer27 said:

She could kill Jaime and then wear his face and kill Cersei boom! Valonqor prophecy comes true :P

Or she could be wearing someone elses face, and is killed by someone close to her, like Jon, thinking that its someone else and not Arya. That'd be pretty emotional considering how tight their bond is.

That's definitely terrible.  Arya's story is about much more than the Faceless Men, though I admit they are intriguing.   I figure the lessons she learns at the House of Black & White will enhance her existing powers as a warg as her powers as a skinchanger enhance her abilities as a Faceless Man.    But back to ideas...you are sure she will head back to Westeros.   There are many folks who believe she will head to Dany.  I think we will get a better handle on Arya's future when we find out where she goes.   

You sure put a clever twist on Arya as The Valonqar.   Don't think I've seen that one before.   

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Just now, Curled Finger said:

That's definitely terrible.  Arya's story is about much more than the Faceless Men, though I admit they are intriguing.   I figure the lessons she learns at the House of Black & White will enhance her existing powers as a warg as her powers as a skinchanger enhance her abilities as a Faceless Man.    But back to ideas...you are sure she will head back to Westeros.   There are many folks who believe she will head to Dany.  I think we will get a better handle on Arya's future when we find out where she goes.   

You sure put a clever twist on Arya as The Valonqar.   Don't think I've seen that one before.   

hahaha wasnt exactly serious, just messing. I just like hearing other peoples ideas and theories.

I actually had not thought of Arya going anywhere other than back to Westeros. Interesting. Why would she go to Mereen when everyone she wants to kill and whats left of her family is still in Westeros? I have to reread the last two books its been awhile.

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10 minutes ago, TheSeer27 said:

hahaha wasnt exactly serious, just messing. I just like hearing other peoples ideas and theories.

I actually had not thought of Arya going anywhere other than back to Westeros. Interesting. Why would she go to Mereen when everyone she wants to kill and whats left of her family is still in Westeros? I have to reread the last two books its been awhile.

Reread for the love of it.   I don't think there is any clear indication where she will go.   Most of the ideas surrounding Arya involve a hit.  She knows Cersei, so it's unlikely she would be awarded that particular job, but she doesn't know Dany etcetera and so forth.   

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3 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Reread for the love of it.   I don't think there is any clear indication where she will go.   Most of the ideas surrounding Arya involve a hit.  She knows Cersei, so it's unlikely she would be awarded that particular job, but she doesn't know Dany etcetera and so forth.   

Im working on it. Im halfway through ACOK so it might be a while lol.

But why would the Faceless Men send her to kill Dany? Although she has dragons she is opposed to slavery. Im a couple drinks deep and I've only read the books once so, forgive me im a noob.

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I suppose for the same reason they would send her to kill Cersei.    While you're rereading note the origin of the Faceless Men.   They were slaves in the Valyrian mines...Valyrians, dragons, Targs...Dany!  It's as good a reason as any.   While you're being aware of that don't forget that we don't know of any Targ hits the FM were in on.    It's all speculation.   

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12 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I suppose for the same reason they would send her to kill Cersei.    While you're rereading note the origin of the Faceless Men.   They were slaves in the Valyrian mines...Valyrians, dragons, Targs...Dany!  It's as good a reason as any.   While you're being aware of that don't forget that we don't know of any Targ hits the FM were in on.    It's all speculation.   

Yea I do remember that. Does make sense.

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Arya will be queen, of Westeros on the Iron Throne, the final queen of the series. GRRM has pretty much laid out her arc if you look hard enough.

Her arc is predominantly about these two things;

1) Vengeance vs justice

2) Freedom vs duty

Arya was shaped in the north, where justice prevailed. She went south and then was shaped by horrible acts of injustice. Arya does not currently understand the difference between vengeance and justice, but it is her arc to learn it.

Now, currently, she is looking at things with myopic eyes. Bad person does bad thing, bad person deserves to die, Arya should kill them. That will make her feel better, but it doesn't fix anything. It's just murder, and it just fuels more violence. It is not a solution. To understand the solution she must first understand why these horrible acts happened. There are two root causes.

A) The Iron Throne failing in its duty to do justice.

B ) War

Robert was a negligent king. He failed to do justice. Justice for Lady for example. Cersei didn't/doesn't give a fig for justice.

War inevitably brings horrors and lawlessness. TWOT5Ks was caused specifically by Cersei failing to do her duty. Her duty to the realm was to be a good queen and have the king's babies, and certainly not fuck anyone else or have anyone else's babies. But, Cersei valued her own freedom to love greater than she valued any duty to the realm, and so Westeros got war.

The solution to both A and B, how B was caused by Cersei anyway, is simple. A realm of Kings, Queens, Lords and Ladies who will do justice, and who will put their duty above that of their own freedom.

And thus, the natural conclusion to Arya's arc, is to assume the role of Queen, dutiful queen. As queen she can do justice, and prevent the terrible occurrences that so shaped her by deterrence, the promise that in her realm under her rule lawbreakers will face justice. That is the solution, open visible justice in the name of the people of Westeros as their rightful Queen, as opposed to vengeance carried out in secret for secret reasons, in the dark where no-one can see in the name of and by no-one.

But it all comes at a cost. To do justice, she will have to give up her freedom, she will have to return to being Arya Stark, return to duty (1). Her father loved Ashara, but to overthrow an unjust king and set the realm to rights he had to forego love and do his duty and marry her mother. Her mother makes much of having always done her duty, she counts marrying her father among those duties. If they'd not sacrificed their love for duty, Arya would not exist. Cersei refused to forego love for duty, and for it the realm bled and all those horrors that shaped Arya occurred.

Arya foregoing vengeance by the time the decision comes will not be the hard part, the hard part will be turning her back on love. And it will be even worse, because she will bear a love a child that she will need to give up. A little Daemon Blackfyre whose very existence will threaten to bleed the realm. Recall her throwing rocks at Nymeria to drive her away, for Nymeria's own safety, or the queen would kill her. It was the right thing to do, wasn't it?

Ultimately, Arya will do her duty to her lord and king, she will sacrifice her love and freedom, give up her lover and his child and become Arya Stark once again. She will marry where her king, the KITN, commands her. She will marry the king on the Iron Throne, a man she doesn't love, can not love (2), and become queen of Westeros. She will do her duty and stay loyal and bear him true heirs (2) for the sake of the realm. Sweet and sour.

 

1.

Quote

"You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers."

Arya didn't think it was funny. "I hate needlework!" she said with passion. "It's not fair!"

2.

Quote

They had two now, Stranger and a sorrel palfrey mare Arya had named Craven, because Sandor said she'd likely run off from the Twins the same as them. They'd found her wandering riderless through a field the morning after the slaughter. She was a good enough horse, but Arya could not love a coward. Stranger would have fought. Still, she tended the mare as best she knew. It was better than riding double with the Hound. And Craven might have been a coward, but she was young and strong as well. Arya thought that she might be able to outrun Stranger, if it came to it.

 

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58 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Arya will be queen, of Westeros on the Iron Throne, the final queen of the series. GRRM has pretty much laid out her arc if you look hard enough.

Her arc is predominantly about these two things;

1) Vengeance vs justice

2) Freedom vs duty

Arya was shaped in the north, where justice prevailed. She went south and then was shaped by horrible acts of injustice. Arya does not currently understand the difference between vengeance and justice, but it is her arc to learn it.

Now, currently, she is looking at things with myopic eyes. Bad person does bad thing, bad person deserves to die, Arya should kill them. That will make her feel better, but it doesn't fix anything. It's just murder, and it just fuels more violence. It is not a solution. To understand the solution she must first understand why these horrible acts happened. There are two root causes.

A) The Iron Throne failing in its duty to do justice.

B) War

Robert was a negligent king. He failed to do justice. Justice for Lady for example. Cersei didn't/doesn't give a fig for justice.

War inevitably brings horrors and lawlessness. TWOT5Ks was caused specifically by Cersei failing to do her duty. Her duty to the realm was to be a good queen and have the king's babies, and certainly not fuck anyone else or have anyone else's babies. But, Cersei valued her own freedom to love greater than she valued any duty to the realm, and so Westeros got war.

The solution to both A and B, how B was caused by Cersei anyway, is simple. A realm of Kings, Queens, Lords and Ladies who will do justice, and who will put their duty above that of their own freedom.

And thus, the natural conclusion to Arya's arc, is to assume the role of Queen, dutiful queen. As queen she can do justice, and prevent the terrible occurrences that so shaped her by deterrence, the promise that in her realm under her rule lawbreakers will face justice. That is the solution, open visible justice in the name of the people of Westeros as their rightful Queen, as opposed to vengeance carried out in secret for secret reasons, in the dark where no-one can see in the name of and by no-one.

But it all comes at a cost. To do justice, she will have to give up her freedom, she will have to return to being Arya Stark, return to duty. Her father loved Ashara, but overthrow an unjust king and set the realm to rights he had to forego love and do his duty and marry her mother. Her mother makes much of having always done her duty, she counts marrying her father among those duties. Cersei refused to forego love for duty, and for it the realm bled and all those horrors that shaped Arya occurred.

Arya foregoing vengeance by the time the decision comes will not be the hard part, the hard part will be turning her back on love. And it will be even worse, because she will bear a love a child that she will need to give up. A little Daemon Blackfyre whose very existence will threaten to bleed the realm.

Ultimately, Arya will do her duty to her lord and king, she will sacrifice her love and freedom, give up her lover and his child and become Arya Stark once again. She will marry where her king, the KITN, commands her. She will marry the king on the Iron Throne, a man she doesn't love, can not love, and become queen of Westeros. She will do her duty and stay loyal and bear him true heirs for the sake of the realm. Sweet and sour.

That wasn't very tinfoily but it sure was excellent to read.   It's really good not to see all those words justifying her death.   Really nice job Man. 

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2 hours ago, lujo said:

I would love a part of Arya's endgame to be Nymeria and her wolfpack messing Cersei up for having Lady killed. 

Or dealing with the Frey's. I do think Arya's second life will be in Nymeria. It is a second life worthy of a queen.

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While Arya's endgame is hard to figure, there are a few things I am certain she will NOT do.

She does not presently know how to change her face and will not stay long enough to find out.

She will not stay in the Faceless Men, and will not kill anyone for them that we have heard of.  (WOW spoiler)

 

This includes Raff.  She did that on her own.  

She will not die and live on in Nymeria (ugh!)

 

As for what she will do:

She will return to Westeros

She will use her wolfpack to help fight the Others.  Using them against Lannisters and Freys would be a waste of a perfectly good wolfpack.

She will kill someone important, but because she sees them as a threat, not because they are on her list.  Her list is effectively finished.  Cersei is the only one left that matters, and she has enough enemies already.

Beyond that I am not prepared to say.  I would like to see her survive the series and marry a King like her father suggested.  (Not Jon though.  Ick!)  However, I tend not to get what I want in this series, so she'll probably die.  Hopefully heroically!

ETA:  And she will definitely help her siblings bring House Stark back to its former glory!

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18 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Arya will be queen, of Westeros on the Iron Throne, the final queen of the series. GRRM has pretty much laid out her arc if you look hard enough.

Her arc is predominantly about these two things;

1) Vengeance vs justice

2) Freedom vs duty

Arya was shaped in the north, where justice prevailed. She went south and then was shaped by horrible acts of injustice. Arya does not currently understand the difference between vengeance and justice, but it is her arc to learn it.

Now, currently, she is looking at things with myopic eyes. Bad person does bad thing, bad person deserves to die, Arya should kill them. That will make her feel better, but it doesn't fix anything. It's just murder, and it just fuels more violence. It is not a solution. To understand the solution she must first understand why these horrible acts happened. There are two root causes.

A) The Iron Throne failing in its duty to do justice.

B ) War

Robert was a negligent king. He failed to do justice. Justice for Lady for example. Cersei didn't/doesn't give a fig for justice.

War inevitably brings horrors and lawlessness. TWOT5Ks was caused specifically by Cersei failing to do her duty. Her duty to the realm was to be a good queen and have the king's babies, and certainly not fuck anyone else or have anyone else's babies. But, Cersei valued her own freedom to love greater than she valued any duty to the realm, and so Westeros got war.

The solution to both A and B, how B was caused by Cersei anyway, is simple. A realm of Kings, Queens, Lords and Ladies who will do justice, and who will put their duty above that of their own freedom.

And thus, the natural conclusion to Arya's arc, is to assume the role of Queen, dutiful queen. As queen she can do justice, and prevent the terrible occurrences that so shaped her by deterrence, the promise that in her realm under her rule lawbreakers will face justice. That is the solution, open visible justice in the name of the people of Westeros as their rightful Queen, as opposed to vengeance carried out in secret for secret reasons, in the dark where no-one can see in the name of and by no-one.

But it all comes at a cost. To do justice, she will have to give up her freedom, she will have to return to being Arya Stark, return to duty (1). Her father loved Ashara, but to overthrow an unjust king and set the realm to rights he had to forego love and do his duty and marry her mother. Her mother makes much of having always done her duty, she counts marrying her father among those duties. If they'd not sacrificed their love for duty, Arya would not exist. Cersei refused to forego love for duty, and for it the realm bled and all those horrors that shaped Arya occurred.

Arya foregoing vengeance by the time the decision comes will not be the hard part, the hard part will be turning her back on love. And it will be even worse, because she will bear a love a child that she will need to give up. A little Daemon Blackfyre whose very existence will threaten to bleed the realm. Recall her throwing rocks at Nymeria to drive her away, for Nymeria's own safety, or the queen would kill her. It was the right thing to do, wasn't it?

Ultimately, Arya will do her duty to her lord and king, she will sacrifice her love and freedom, give up her lover and his child and become Arya Stark once again. She will marry where her king, the KITN, commands her. She will marry the king on the Iron Throne, a man she doesn't love, can not love (2), and become queen of Westeros. She will do her duty and stay loyal and bear him true heirs (2) for the sake of the realm. Sweet and sour.

 

1.

2.

 

Wow. I am floored.  

This line in particular, "To do justice, she will have to give up her freedom." Arya has spent most of her life sacrificing parts of who she is in order to survive. She has given up freedom willingly when she went to the HoBW. 

Vary's speech on a just ruler was grrm's misdirection.

What do you think about her story arc crossing paths with Bran? The connections grrm builds between these two can't be for nothing?

Arya is the black swan. Her future will suprise many. 

 

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I believe in the new world created after Long Night, Arya will occupy a very important seat on a new council (along with Tyrion, Sansa, Davos, Sam, Gendry and Theon). The new political regime will have seeds of democracy and elected government - I would say a constitutional monarchy. The new royal seat of new royal dynasty (House Stark) and the new capital of the new realm will be built near God's Eye on Harrenhal ruins (Jon, Arya, Sansa and Bran have all connections to Isle of Faces and Harrenhal area, but that is another thread).

Arya has seen injustice done to people throughout her journey and still needs to leave her murderous revenge thoughts aside because it has never been a good thing for anyone (and George Martin's essential messages). However, she can become the invisible sword of punishment and justice of the new government and use her skills to take out enemies of the realm and bring justice for citizens of the new realm.

I really think that Arya will take over "Varys' role" for the "good of the realm". She will have all the tools to start a new spy agency if she wanted. That "No One" philosophy of Faceless Men is just a perfect ideology for agents of her circle to serve the realm incognito. No one will know who they are, but thanks to Arya and her agents, the realm will be safe and secure.

There is another character who has seen the flaws and stupidity of judicial system in Westeros - Tyrion. He was a victim of accusation twice - first in the Eyrie, then at King's Landing. Maybe there are more in store for him. If my prediction of Tyrion and Sansa ruling the realm by the end is true (as Prime Minister and Queen Regent respectively, ruling in the name of Eddard Stark, First of His Name, son of King of Winter Jon Stark and Mother of Dragons Daenerys Targaryen, but that is a separate thread), then I can see a scenario where Tyrion establishes and creates a fair and just court system to find out whether a person is guilty or not.

I suspect in such scenario Tyrion and Sansa might appoint Arya as the High Jury of the realm in addition to her services as spy master. Who better than Arya to find out whether the person is lying or not, or guilty or not? The judicial system might be all under Arya's control by the end, which will be a good thing for the realm.

Just my two cents.

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