Jump to content

Arya endgame?


TheSeer27

Recommended Posts

21 hours ago, Anton Martell said:

Why would the FM be against her? Someone might ask them about killing her, but why would they want, on their own to kill her?

The Faceless Men really don't like Valyrians, especially if said Valyrians have dragons. While Dany is fighting slavery in Slavers' Bay she is both fufilling a valuable purpose and is too far away to pose a threat to Braavos. That will change when she moves to Westeros, especially if she starts taking other Free Cities along the way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Maester of Valyria said:

The Faceless Men really don't like Valyrians, especially if said Valyrians have dragons. While Dany is fighting slavery in Slavers' Bay she is both fufilling a valuable purpose and is too far away to pose a threat to Braavos. That will change when she moves to Westeros, especially if she starts taking other Free Cities along the way.

From what I gather from the FM, they don't kill for their personal reasons, which is kind of the point about Arya not fitting there. So to try to kill Dany on their own would seem out of character IMO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would be very very surprised if she survives the series.

 

I just don't see her arc ending in any way other than her death. Or maaaybe her leaving Westeros forever and exploring the world alone. I think she's too far gone to ever truly return to her family, and despite what some posts here have said, I don't think at all that she's learned how to rule or even be head of a household. She's been learning how to kill, not how to be a Queen or Lady.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, GravyFace said:

I would be very very surprised if she survives the series.

 

I just don't see her arc ending in any way other than her death. Or maaaybe her leaving Westeros forever and exploring the world alone. I think she's too far gone to ever truly return to her family, and despite what some posts here have said, I don't think at all that she's learned how to rule or even be head of a household. She's been learning how to kill, not how to be a Queen or Lady.

Arya can already manage a Household better than Sansa. 

There is a fantastic case to be made that Vary's Just Ruler speech was pure misdirection for either Dany or Arya since both tick most of the boxes. 

More detail in this great meta essay by ashotofjac called Arya Stark: Leadership, Queendom, and Symbolism  - http://ashotofjac.tumblr.com/post/143186696353

More discussion here: 

Arya can assume a role and still maintain her own identity:

“You play at being a servant, but in your heart you are a lord’s daughter. You have taken other names, but you wore them as lightly as you might wear a gown. Under them was always Arya.” - AFFC (The Kindly Man to Arya)

l

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 30/07/2016 at 11:18 AM, Anton Martell said:

From what I gather from the FM, they don't kill for their personal reasons, which is kind of the point about Arya not fitting there. So to try to kill Dany on their own would seem out of character IMO

They might be willing to make an exception for a Valyrian with dragons. It may even be in their 'charter' or whatever code they live by: to oppose any magic that stems from fire and blood.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 6 août 2016 at 1:37 PM, Maester of Valyria said:

They might be willing to make an exception for a Valyrian with dragons. It may even be in their 'charter' or whatever code they live by: to oppose any magic that stems from fire and blood.

That's one hell of a exception to consider when writing your charter... Anyway, I think it's far-fetched

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Anton Martell said:

That's one hell of a exception to consider when writing your charter... Anyway, I think it's far-fetched

Perhaps the 'clause' about opposing Valyrians trumps the one about not killing for personal reasons.

Ultimately we don't have enough information about the Faceless Men's rulebook to make a completely sound prediction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to be resigned to the fact that Arya would likely die before the end. You can't help but feel that way because of the atmosphere if her chapters. So I took a closer look and realized that death is one of the motifs throughout her story. Seeing it from a different perspective I do not believe now that she will die since I feel it's a theme verses foreshadowing.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/78551-aryas-relationship-with-death/

The "prophecy" from Jon "The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers." can have several interpretations, yes even foreshadowing her death, but I don't think you can leave out the first part when trying to determine the intention of the author.

Arya has been in hiding since Ned's arrest. She has hid her name, gender, caste and now she is on another continent learning how to change her face. It could be that if she does not come home soon - as Arya Stark - to fulfill her destiny in the icepocalypse she will die like so many others. We could speculate on many other meanings but I picked this one because of the discussion of the parallels with Arya and Bran.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/74603-of-the-stark-children-and-parallel-journeys/

Bran might need Arya to be the wood dancer to his greenseer. I always wondered if she might be needed to go to the Isle of Faces since it was her chapters around the Gods Eye that made me curious. It could be her wolf pack that's needed or her ability to make a pack and lead it.

I could be wrong and maybe Arya is destined to go south. Maybe even become the queen since there is foreshadowing. Or maybe she'll travel the world. I have always wondered if a certain dream she has in Storm meant Arya would never make it home to Winterfell or was it just connected to her anxiety of the present circumstances.

She dreamt of home; not Riverrun, but Winterfell. It was not a good dream, though. She was alone outside the castle, up to her knees in mud. She could see the grey walls ahead of her, but when she tried to reach the gates every step seemed harder than the one before, and the castle faded before her, until it looked more like smoke than granite. And there were wolves as well, gaunt grey shapes stalking through the trees all around her, their eyes shining. Whenever she looked at them, she remembered the taste of blood.

I have never thought she would stay with the FM. She could end up with Dany as there is foreshadowing for that too. But I do not believe the FM will have Arya kill Dany because she is a Targ with dragons - Braavos allied with Aegon the Conqueror against Volantis.

The problem with speculating Arya's end game is that there are far to many choices and it feels that even GRRM has a trouble deciding her path given all the Arya proxies and contradictory foreshadowing.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

The Stark-POVs that have died (Eddard, Catelyn, Robb) have one thing in common: They started playing actively in the "Game of Thrones" without learning or developing. Sansa was lucky to survive because she was just a passive victim until Jeoffrey's death, then Littlefinger helped her to the security of the Vale where Sansa (in disguise of Alayne) finally starts learning. Arya - just like Jon Snow - learned from the beginning, all on her own. Like Bran she is prepared for something important. GRRM has surely not developed these two quite isolated story branches over five books for nothing. I am sure that Arya has a main role to Play.

Looking closely, the capabilities she has developed are incredible.

1) She has a dream-connection to Nymeria over a very far distance (Braavos to the Riverlands).

2) She has skinchanging abilities (see the two occasions where she can see through a cat's eye while being "Blind Beth" - a capability even hidden to the FM

3) The is a promising apprentice of the FM (Faceless Men) - The most capable order of assasins

4) She has very good control of her body (the training of which was first done by Syrio Forel)

5) She can mingle with all kind of people

6) She has courage and can survive in the wilderness

7) She is able to kill with sword and knife

And finally she has gone through an interesting moral development. E.g. by not killing the Hound when she left him - she put him from her list when over the weeks with him she had learned the complexity of his character. She understood that the Hound was both evil and good, at the same time. I think we will see that she has tremendous analytical qualities so that even a Littlefinger would not be able to fool her. She is like a Wild Card to me - powerful to be used at whichever front needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/25/2016 at 9:34 AM, Maxxine said:

For what it's worth if Arya does kill Cersei it won't be because the FM send her. From what I understand, you can't kill someone as a FM if you already know their name. That's why the men on the boat that took her to Braavos wanted to make sure she remembered their name. Plus, sending her to kill Cersei contradicts the the whole lesson of her becoming "no one" since Cersei is on Arya's list. I understand why some people would say she may be sent to kill Dany but I don't see those two ever crossing paths. I think she will leave the FM before she even becomes a full-fledged FM. She's obviously not becoming "no one" as evidenced by the wolf dreams and Needle. I agree with OP that she is probably the hardest character to predict her endgame. I don't think she will die though. 

Spoiler

She certainly knew Raff's name.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Maxxine said:

But that wasn't an assignment given to her by the FM. She did that on her own iirc. Further proving my point about her not becoming no one.

Spoiler

So you think she got the face and put it on by herself? Hmm... interesting. I guess I assumed she was stil a FM but went rogue when she saw him. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arya will leave FM at some point, because no matter how she tries she can't be no one. Actually, the point of joining FM for her was to get some skills to finish her list. It's easy to play roles and kill people you never knew, but when it comes to somethng personal, she is Arya Stark again.

I think she will go back to Westeros in TWOW and will play some important role there. If Arya goes on Tyrion-sque travel to Essos it would be too much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:
  Hide contents

So you think she got the face and put it on by herself? Hmm... interesting. I guess I assumed she was stil a FM but went rogue when she saw him. 

 

Spoiler

She was sent to Izembaro by the FM to continue her training, but they did not order her to kill Raff. It was not an FM assignment to kill Raff in particular, and therefore does not go by their rules about killing people you know.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:
  Reveal hidden contents

She was sent to Izembaro by the FM to continue her training, but they did not order her to kill Raff. It was not an FM assignment to kill Raff in particular, and therefore does not go by their rules about killing people you know.

 

Yes. I'm aware of that. I thought Maxxine was saying she couldn't kill Cersei because she knew her name, which isn't the case. But Maxxine was not saying this, I was just confused by the wording. We are all on the same page now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Yes. I'm aware of that. I thought Maxxine was saying she couldn't kill Cersei because she knew her name, which isn't the case. But Maxxine was not saying this, I was just confused by the wording. We are all on the same page now. 

Ah ok. Sorry I wasn't clear. I just meant the FM could not assign her Cersei bc she knows Cersei's name already. Yes she can kill Cersei on her own & if she does indeed do that it would probably be using things she learned from the FM. Cersei just can't be the assignment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

Ah ok. Sorry I wasn't clear. I just meant the FM could not assign her Cersei bc she knows Cersei's name already. Yes she can kill Cersei on her own & if she does indeed do that it would probably be using things she learned from the FM. Cersei just can't be the assignment.

All good my friend. 

Not to derail the OP too much but...

Do we think Arya will be able to change her face as Jaqen does in CoK:

Quote

Jaqen passed a hand down his face from forehead to chin, and where it went he changed. His cheeks grew fuller, his eyes closer; his nose hooked, a scar appeared on his right cheek where no scar had been before. And when he shook his head, his long straight hair, half red and half white, dissolved away to reveal a cap of tight black curls.

I'm assuming she would have to learn this from the FM, she wouldn't be able to figure it out on her own. Will they teach her? They have to know that she stil is not "no one" (sorry for the double negative, don't know how else to word it).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

All good my friend. 

Not to derail the OP too much but...

Do we think Arya will be able to change her face as Jaqen does in CoK:

I'm assuming she would have to learn this from the FM, she wouldn't be able to figure it out on her own. Will they teach her? They have to know that she stil is not "no one" (sorry for the double negative, don't know how else to word it).

I don't think they want her to be no one, she keeps failing to be no one yet they keep continuing her training to new stages. I think its a test, to pass it she needs to say that she is Arya Stark and no one else then they will move her training to the next level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...