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If all the Great Houses die out...?


Canon Claude

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The regions of Westeros have been ruled by these Houses through the course of the series so far:

North= Stark/Bolton

Riverlands= Tully/Baelish/Frey in theory

Vale= Arryn

Stormlands= Baratheon

Reach= Tyrell

Iron Islands= Greyjoy

Dorne= Martell

Westerlands= Lannister


My question is simple: if all the above Houses should die out, which houses should rule each region?

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North= Difficult to say. The Manderlys would be the sure answer if they weren't worshippers of the Seven. I'll go with the Mormonts, just because of how ironic it would be that they go from the smallest part of the North to the entirety of it.

Riverlands= Tough call. How about House Mallister?

Vale= House Royce, no questions asked.

Stormlands= The Estermonts were married into the Baratheons, so I'd say they could inherit Storm's End.

Reach= House Florent taking over would be hilariously ironic, but it'll probably be House Hightower.

Iron Islands= Another tough call, but I'll go with House Harlaw.

Dorne= Given their ancient history and legendary status, I'll pick House Dayne to inherit Dorne.

Westerlands= Let's go with House Marbrand.

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21 minutes ago, TheSeer27 said:

I think we'll see an end to Feudalism, as its demonstrated time and time again how it fails.

Hardly. You'll just see some other lesser lords trying to fill the power void, and another round of fighting to see who comes out on top. Actually it's quite a stretch that nearly every major house has been in power hundreds, if not thousands of years, given the nature of feudalism and all the fighting the system produces.

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1 minute ago, Lord Lannister said:

Hardly. You'll just see some other lesser lords trying to fill the power void, and another round of fighting to see who comes out on top. Actually it's quite a stretch that nearly every major house has been in power hundreds, if not thousands of years, given the nature of feudalism and all the fighting the system produces.

Yes, and all this does is ensure the process of fighting and alliances and more war and more senseless killing which the writer is very clearly against. Does putting Dany on the Throne, or Jon, solve all of their problems? And then they live happily ever after? I dont buy it. Why must there be a Throne at all.

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7 hours ago, TheSeer27 said:

I think we'll see an end to Feudalism, as its demonstrated time and time again how it fails.

Yes! At least the current system where power is given by blood and there is no counter to ill actions. Lannisters, Boltons, Freys, Arryns, Baratheons, Tyrells likely, Greyjoys, Martells maybe. All are engaged in the "you win or you die". And the only satisfactory end for them is: "DEATH". Maybe some individuals will survive, but their House will be greatly diminished or utterly destroyed. Edmure may survive. But him,  Jon or Bran (Rickon too young to say) would be different kind of lords.

But the main thing is to have something lasting. So that the next little shit doesn't break the system.

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North - Probably Dustin, they have the pedigree. I love Manderly though, without the Starks maybe it splits?

Riverlands - House Vance (of Wayfarer's Rest). Besides the obvious bias, I think they originally granted the Tully's Riverrun when Vance's were Kings of the Rivers and Hills. Mallister's are pretty dope too. If not for them being son's of bitches, the Freys. 

Vale - Royce. Maaaybe Corbray?

Stormlands - Estermont

Reach - The Hightowers, but I could definitely see the reach breaking apart without the blood of the Greenhand to unite them (I know they all have it, but it woudln't be the same). Maybe the Tarlys take a chunk? 

Iron Islands - Harlaw 

Dorne - Yronwood or Dayne, but most likely Yronwood (I could also see Dorne splitting)

Westerlands - Honestly can't think of a top western lord. Crakehall maybe?

 

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Nobody.

If the "great" houses all die out then that's it, they're gone. Should they even be replaced? The story seems to be going in the direction that denigrates the feudal system. I wouldn't be surprised if Westeros becomes a unitary kingdom/empire where the King is the top dog and there aren't these super lords who have the power to essentially veto the king.  I would think that this will not end with the kingdom going back to the old system.

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On 7/25/2016 at 8:25 AM, Ser Joe of Generic Hall said:

Nobody.

If the "great" houses all die out then that's it, they're gone. Should they even be replaced? The story seems to be going in the direction that denigrates the feudal system. I wouldn't be surprised if Westeros becomes a unitary kingdom/empire where the King is the top dog and there aren't these super lords who have the power to essentially veto the king.  I would think that this will not end with the kingdom going back to the old system.

Then who supports the king? Rather, which house is the kingly house? And who supports them? How many men do they have? How do they subdue the other regions? How do they control the other regions?

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On 2016-07-24 at 5:30 AM, TheSeer27 said:

I think we'll see an end to Feudalism, as its demonstrated time and time again how it fails.

Not a chance. The system can replace losses, after all that's how the Tyrells and Tullys got their power.

But it might be that we'll see the end of feudalism, and probably magic as well, in Westeros in the end after which there will be one big ruler, dragons and everyone else growling in the dirt. :(

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28 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

Not a chance. The system can replace losses, after all that's how the Tyrells and Tullys got their power.

But it might be that we'll see the end of feudalism, and probably magic as well, in Westeros in the end after which there will be one big ruler, dragons and everyone else growling in the dirt. :(

I agree that the system can replace minor losses. A big population drop from the incoming winter can easily break the system (as it helped end feudalism in part of Europe)

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On 2016-07-27 at 1:57 PM, Tucu said:

I agree that the system can replace minor losses. A big population drop from the incoming winter can easily break the system (as it helped end feudalism in part of Europe)

I don't know. Westerosi feudalism survived the Great Spring Sickness and the following draught so I don't know why this time it would be so different.

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39 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

I don't know. Westerosi feudalism survived the Great Spring Sickness and the following draught so I don't know why this time it would be so different.

The Great Spring Sickness seem to have killed only small percentage of the overall population (even if it hit the cities harder).

The incoming winter and wars will kill a lot more than that. Only The Vale and Dorne have enough food stores to face a long winter. Tywin burnt the Riverlands, Robb burnt the Westerlands. Kings Landing ate all the food of the Crownlands and probably the Stormlands. Highgarden is having to send food everywhere and the North lost the Winterfell food stores, didn't have the manpower for one last harvest and it is at war.

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On 24/07/2016 at 4:16 AM, Canon Claude said:

The regions of Westeros have been ruled by these Houses through the course of the series so far:

North= Stark/Bolton

Riverlands= Tully/Baelish/Frey in theory

Vale= Arryn

Stormlands= Baratheon

Reach= Tyrell

Iron Islands= Greyjoy

Dorne= Martell

Westerlands= Lannister


My question is simple: if all the above Houses should die out, which houses should rule each region?

The Vale -  If Sweet Robin dies Harrold Hardyng will change his surname to Arryn and he will inherit the Vale.

North - The Starks wont go extinct. Bran will survive and he will probably marry Meera Reed. Rickon is next in line. Sansa will live on and her child will be a Stark (her first born may try to unite the North with the Vale) and Jon Snow will be legitimised before the Starks go extinct. Alternatively it will be a fight between the Boltons (the most powerful house) and the Karstarks (who share Stark blood). 

Riverlands - Why on earth would Edmure die? He's a prestigious hostage to CR, he's married to the Frey girl (her family will defend her) and she's pregnant. The boy/girl will be a Tully and rest assured the Freys will do their outmost to support his claim to the Riverlands

Stormlands - Its a matter of finder keepers this day. I can see the land being given to the Golden Company commander/Aegon (if he bends the knee to Danny)/Danny right hand man with Shireen being part of the deal (if she's still alive).

Reach - The Tyrells will survive. Willas is in Highgarden and he's more brilliant than daddy. Garlan is still alive and he's located in Brightwater keep. He will soon get his wife pregnant. If there's a Tyrell genocide then I bet there will be chaos with everyone staking claim on the land (Hightower, Tarly etc)

Iron Islands - a kingsmoot would sort that

Dorne - one of the  1000000 Sand snakes will inherit the land

Westerlands - Tyrion will live on and inherit the land

 

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Some very nice answers.   Still, one has to consider who's actually in power in some of these places.   The Arryns no more hold the Vale than The Baratheons hold The Stormlands or Dragonstone.   The Tullys are not in power in the Riverlands.   The Hightowers and Tyrells have long been at odds with each other; it's only Marg's marriage to Tommen that cements the Tyrell hold on the Reach.   All that is left in Dorne are Doran and Tyrstane.  The Boltons hold the North however tenuously.  If you are up to date on most recently dispersed information you know the Greyjoys are not ruling the Iron Islands.   That leaves the Westerlands in the best shape to continue under Lannister rule as there seem to be a whole bunch of them there.  They seem to have ruled well.   Sure I would like to see the Backwoods come to power, but I'm not sure The Riverlands are ready for their brand of magic any more than the Vale can actually be ruled by a sad little creature such as Sweet Robert.   I think everyone agrees that current rule in the Crownlands has a very short life expectancy.  

Let's not forget that the Wildlings are incorporating into the North.  They've already got an old cadet Stark house.  Following the war to come who is to say they wont be further rewarded further south (in the North).   I wouldn't be surprised to see House Bolton completely decimated along with Karstark and possibly some of the other houses who contributed heavily to Robb's ill fated campaign.   The Umbers seem to have no one left beyond old men and green boys.  The Mormonts seem to be down to only women.  (Those these particular women seem to be accepted as fearsome fighters in the North so perhaps they don't count.)  

People are moving their little wars all over the place in their power grabs throughout Westeros.    The Sparrows are taking over Kings Landing, Aegon & Jon Connington are bringing the Stormlands to their knees, the BWB is running a shadow government throughout the Riverlands, Little Finger has firm control of the Vale and a large say in the Riverlands, The North is divided in many different ways of thinking.  The Reach and Iron Islands face incredible threat.   I think it's plausible, no, likely, that every ruling house in each kingdom as well as the Iron Throne is at serious risk now.   Whether the kingdoms reunite or disperse depends on much more than bloodlines, noble names and money at this point.    

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My guess would be:

North: House Bolton due to Roose being Roose

Riverlands: House Frey 'cause ol' Walder can raise an army from his sons alone

Westerlands: Hard one, I'm going with Crakehall or Marbrand

Vale: Royce, no doubt

Iron Isles: King's Moot probably with House Harlaw being victorious

Dorne: House Yronwood

Stormlands: I'd really like to see House Seaworth rule here

Reach: House Hightower

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Considering how there will be Long Night 2.0 and there is a war machine with three nuclear weapons named Daenerys Targaryen that comes to destroy Westeros with foreign masses of people which do not follow feudalistic principles of hereditary ruling, I do not see feudalism surviving this series. Therefore, I do not see "Seven Kingdoms" and most of Great Houses surviving. I only foresee Stark and Lannister names surviving long into the future with other Great Houses dying out.

But for fun's sake:

North - House Bolton - "peaceful land and quiet people",

Vale - House Royce of Runestone - First Men Kings of Mountain and Rock

Westerlands - this is tough one, because Tywin eradicated the second and third most powerful houses of his region, I will go with House Crakehall

Iron Islands - House Harlaw of Ten Towers

Reach - I will give the Reach and Highgarden to Randyll Tarly because he will have a claim on it through his wife Melessa who is a Florent, plus he is the best soldier of the region according to Kevan Lannister, he will bring some order and justice just like he did in Maidenpool, so yeah, House Tarly

Stormlands - I would give Storm's End to one of the marcher lords due to their militaristic tradition, so either Caron, Dondarrion, or Swann

Dorne - House Yronwood, definitely, Bloodroyals and once High Kings of Dorne, and second most powerful house in the region

Riverlands - It will be impossible to hold this region due to its centralized location and endless hosting of all major battles between Seven Kingdoms. I will just merge it with Crownlands and make Iron Throne control it directly with no Lord Paramount anymore. Whoever attacks the region will deal with the crown directly.

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One thing in Westeros: There are no strong, independent cities. Everything is feudal. So you cannot really get past feudalism immediately - though you can use the lack of great houses to quickly found a network of Crown cities. Confiscate land at important points (for example Moat Cailin would be a great place for a Crown city and garrison to secure main traffic route to the North... etc.). Motivate artisans and merchants to move to Crown cities (you are Crown, you can afford tax breaks) and thus build a strong economic powerhouse. With that, you later get force of arms (who gets weapons? He who has blacksmiths!)... Etc.

Hey presto, Absolutism with king standing on the shoulders of dissatisfied lower gentry and cities. Make it a habit to promote in Royal service based on merits...

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