The BlackBear

The Walking Dead Season 7 (Comic Spoilers) What? Was the joke that bad?

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I'm calling it now....

Despite the events of last week.... Negan will turn out to be a real peach .... beloved by the people of Alexandria.... and his annual Fourth of July shindig will be the toast of the apocalypse

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Quote

 

I'm calling it now....

Despite the events of last week.... Negan will turn out to be a real peach .... beloved by the people of Alexandria.... and his annual Fourth of July shindig will be the toast of the apocalypse

 

It turns out the protection racket is actually the founding of a benevolent monarchy. After rescuing Carol from the evil tiger cultists, they are happily married and their son goes on to become the beloved King Richard the First of Georgia.

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On 10/24/2016 at 9:02 PM, Nictarion said:

You forgot Morgan. 

Did I really? He wasn't a cast member until season six. :P

Edited by PetyrPunkinhead

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19 hours ago, red snow said:

I also noticed one of the Westworld hosts is in Negan's gang. The dude with the marker pen was the villain who drinks milk, right?

Not sure if you are a gamer but that also is Trevor from Grand Theft Auto V, Steven Ogg.

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7 hours ago, Gertrude said:

I know it's not part of the comics (at least as far as I've gotten), but the show did include a brief stop with the CDC guy. I can't even remember what he told him - maybe just that they were all infected? The show has veered off comic script before, so hoping it would in this way is not completely out of the realm of possibility. I don't expect Rick's group to do anything about it, but someone, somewhere might. And it would be really cool for Rick's group to interact with that group, even if only for a little bit.

Anyway, my point was that if this was the kind of show that actually addressed how it got this way or try to solve the zombie problem instead of dealing with them individually, I'd be more interested, but it's not, so I'm not. I liked the man v man nature of it for a while, but it's too much for me now. Their forward progression is waaay too little in relation to their brutal set-backs for my tastes.

The Zombie threat, in bulk, might solve itself.

 

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12 hours ago, Castel said:

Sure, the bolded is a fair clarification. I read your post as sort of implying that, if they didn't morally have it coming it was a sort of comeuppance. 

As for Glenn being "heroic"...that's a high standard isn't it?  It may not have been heroic, but was it evil? If they hadn't tried to kill Sasha, Abraham and Gregory after killing a whole bunch of other people and repeatedly stating their intention to run an apocalyptic protection racket they'd still be alive. Whether they died in their sleep or standing up seems secondary. 

I just don't think there's much overlap. Rick and his group have flirted with some shady  shit, but they've always pulled back from it. They're harsh, arrogant and dangerous and maybe did something tactically unwise, it's not even close and it's not cause "we know Rick's group better".

 

No doubt, Rick's gang are still the "good guys" in this exchange but I think there's a good reason they spent a fair amount of time last season showing us how they seemed savage from the Alexandrian's POV. Even the good guy's have to be tough in this world and past experiences for the gang suggest they even have to be pre-emptive sometimes.

I think I recall Glenn killing someone in their sleep for the benefit of another character. I guess that showed he knew what he was doing was shady and that he wanted to spare the other character from the guilt.

It was still come-uppance as irrespective of whether they deserved that response it was the result of them messing with Negan's gang. If they'd never got involved in trying to help the Alexandrians they wouldn't have been killed by Negan. That said I don't doubt that if they had run into Negan completely clean of any previous encounter things may have still gone wrong. Just not so horribly wrong.

Now, I'll admit to being fickle here as I'd also be pretty disappointed in Rick and Co if they had done absolutely nothing and simply caved to Negan without a fight :)

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On 10/24/2016 at 6:48 AM, Commodore said:

that was just exploitative torture porn

Negan is a stupid cartoon villain. His psychotic bemusement did nothing for me. I suppose people like him may exist, but they certainly wouldn't have a following.

 

 

I was thinking the same. JDM is really good, but the character is just OTT and ridiculous. Is he a complete idiot? Why does he do these things? I get that he's a sadist and gets off on it, but does he really think it's good strategy? There have been lots of terrible assholes in this show, but they all made more sense, because they killed their enemies or victims, rather than forcing them to work for them while torturing them horribly and killing their loved ones. He's now got a bunch of incredibly pissed off people who hate his guts and always will, and are yearning to see him dead. (And there are probably more since he has no doubt done this before.) He may be able to keep people in submission through fear for a while, but sooner or later someone is going to kill him. Surely that should be obvious?

The show is really torture porn. I'm going to watch on just to see what's the deal with Morgan, Carol and the dude with a tiger, that may be interesting, but I have zero interest in watching an entire season of Negan killing and torturing and doing more awful shot to show how eeeeevil he is, or rooting for Rick and co. to get Revenge (TM). It's even worse than Ramsay Sue.

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I was half expecting for the show to totally wuss out of the whole Negan/Lucille thing and just have them all threatened with death, maybe smacked around a bit but not actually killed. So it's all a positive from there really.

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1 hour ago, Isis said:

I was half expecting for the show to totally wuss out of the whole Negan/Lucille thing and just have them all threatened with death, maybe smacked around a bit but not actually killed. So it's all a positive from there really.

We saw someone getting bludgeoned to death, from their own POV, at the end of season 6 finale, so that was never a possibility.

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3 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

The show is really torture porn. I'm going to watch on just to see what's the deal with Morgan, Carol and the dude with a tiger, that may be interesting, but I have zero interest in watching an entire season of Negan killing and torturing and doing more awful shot to show how eeeeevil he is, or rooting for Rick and co. to get Revenge (TM). It's even worse than Ramsay Sue.

Why is the show "really torture porn"?  I'm honestly curious.  I have plenty of issues with Walking Dead but that just seems.... arbitrary.  It's torture porn because it is violent?  What is your definition of torture porn?

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The source material is pretty violent. I'm not sure what exactly people were expecting here. It hasn't been amped up for tv and in fact the violence has been dialed down from other parts of the comic. 

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1 hour ago, Slurktan said:

Why is the show "really torture porn"?  I'm honestly curious.  I have plenty of issues with Walking Dead but that just seems.... arbitrary.  It's torture porn because it is violent?  What is your definition of torture porn?

Showing violence and torture for its own sake. Or are you going to claim this is great storytelling and will lead to amazing character development and deep messages about the human condition, rather than just an attempt to shock and gross out the audience as much as possible?

46 minutes ago, kairparavel said:

The source material is pretty violent. I'm not sure what exactly people were expecting here. It hasn't been amped up for tv and in fact the violence has been dialed down from other parts of the comic. 

And I should care, why? If the comic is also like that, that just means that the comic also sucks.

And please don't start with "what did you expect" crap or act like people just have a problem with violence being in it. FFS, Oz is one of my favorite shows. I expected, once upon a time, not-utterly-awful storytelling, but my expectations have been progressively lowered, so I wasn't even disappointed, I just shrugged.

For the record, their attempts to shock and sadden me are failing. The deaths and awfulness are so predictablw at this point. I should have been saddened, but I just don't care that much. That's the problem with too much negativity, it just gets boring. I expect them all to die and nothing good to ever happen, so there is no excitement.

Edited by Annara Snow

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Dude, this show and comic has never been an exploration into the deep emotional void in humanity in a post apocalyptic world. Actually, the comic is imo a bit better at capturing the emotional aspect.  I think Clear is the best example of that in the show but is the exception and not the rule.

The show has always been big violence - it opens with a child zombie getting shot and goes from there - amputations, skulls caved in by boots, impalings on any number of things,  a horse being torn apart, cannibaliam, throats slashed open, torn out by teeth and on and on. So I don't think asking what you could expect from the foreshadowing of a bat to the skull to be an unreasonable question. YMMV. 

As I stated earlier, this is where I dropped out of the comic. Not because of how Glenn died but because he did. I was tired of the core group losing people and just didn't see how the story could progress without some rebuilding of society. And I didn't expect it to get there with a character like Negan. Lo and behold they seemingly have so..

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10 hours ago, red snow said:

Now, I'll admit to being fickle here as I'd also be pretty disappointed in Rick and Co if they had done absolutely nothing and simply caved to Negan without a fight :)

Yeah, it doesn't really make sense at this point in their arcs tbh.A lot of people dislike the more arrogant, hubristic Rick (I hated him more when he was being an obnoxious bleeding heart) but there's very little way to sell them just going along with Negan for any amount of time without Negan forcing them.

Between their experiences with other psychotic assholes and places like Alexandria making them feel like badasses just in contrast...there's no way.

 

Something like this had to happen or you'd just have to rewrite Negan completely.

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torture porn in the sense that all they do is find ways to crank up the awfulness and bleakness and contriving terrible moral choices for the characters to make ("I know, let's make him decide whether or not to chop his son's arm off! What an agonizing decision! It will be so tense!")

and since they can't think of an organic way to create these scenarios, they have a wackjob villain who just stages them for fun

Edited by Commodore

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1 hour ago, Commodore said:

torture porn in the sense that all they do is find ways to crank up the awfulness and bleakness and contriving terrible moral choices for the characters to make ("I know, let's make him decide whether or not to chop his son's arm off! What an agonizing decision! It will be so tense!")

and since they can't think of an organic way to create these scenarios, they have a wackjob villain who just stages them for fun

I don't know if it's torture porn, but it's pretty bleak isn't it? Honestly, this is the first season where I haven't been eagerly anticipating the season premiere. While I haven't read the comics, I did read the spoiler and so I knew that Glenn was probably going to get it, and if he didn't, then someone else would. So what is there to look forward to?

At the same time, I don't know if it's the show or the source material that's to blame. Well, both, obviously. But I wonder if Kirkman has any plan for the comics/show to go in a more constructive direction. Is it possible for anything good to happen in this story?

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It's not supposed to be a feelgood story where the good guys win and live happily ever after. 

As Kirkman put it in the preface of the first comic 'it is the zombre movie that never ends.'

The story is about trying to hold onto your humanity in a world without structure. It is about surviving. 

As far as Negan being too crazy and ruthless to follow that is his thing.  He has surrounded himself with other psychopaths. He is intently charismatic and invokes fear to them. But he also provides structure and order. 

His people don't want to work. They don't want to scavenge, farm or build. Subjugation of weaker people through fear provides them with all the goods and suppliers they need in this new terrifying world.

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3 hours ago, MercurialCannibal said:

It's not supposed to be a feelgood story where the good guys win and live happily ever after. 

As Kirkman put it in the preface of the first comic 'it is the zombre movie that never ends.'

The story is about trying to hold onto your humanity in a world without structure. It is about surviving.

We have some bad zombres here.

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14 hours ago, kairparavel said:

As I stated earlier, this is where I dropped out of the comic. Not because of how Glenn died but because he did. I was tired of the core group losing people and just didn't see how the story could progress without some rebuilding of society. And I didn't expect it to get there with a character like Negan. Lo and behold they seemingly have so..

The comics skipped ahead a few years after the "war" arc. vol 22 "a new beginning" might be a good place for you to restart as it addresses some of your issues. It's better than anything between Glen's death and vol 22.

5 hours ago, Pecan said:

 

At the same time, I don't know if it's the show or the source material that's to blame. Well, both, obviously. But I wonder if Kirkman has any plan for the comics/show to go in a more constructive direction. Is it possible for anything good to happen in this story?

vol 22. Horrible stuff still happens and may be snatched away but they are making a good go of it.

I do often think there'd be some form of government/military mix that would survive and through organisation and resources slowly reclaim parts of the US. It could be happening in the tv and comics but we don't know.

It's something "Jericho" handled quite well. I'd like walking dead or fear to have a story where two large governments are at war - both claiming to be the new united states and the cast gets caught in the middle. It'd highlight how small scale our characters battles have been.

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