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So what happens to House Bolton, Frey, and Tully, bannermen?


Blackphillip

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I assume the Bolton bannermen/military forces now belong to Stark.  I assume Freys forces and bannermen will be absorbed by the Lannisters.  The Tully forces likewise absorbed by the Lannisters?  And who will get The Twins.  It is, after all, a strategically crucial castle.  What do you think?  And also, what do you guys think are the size of each sides military at this point?

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Bolton: 

Yes, I think we are meant to assume that Bolton's bannermen and allies all swore to Jon as kitn already.  However it remains to be seen what is done with the Bolton name and castle (Dreadfort).  One option is to raze the castle and split the land among neighbors.  Another is to install a new lord and house there.  Maybe Davos, or Tormund?

Frey: 

Freys are, under Cersei, Lords Paramount of the Riverlands, and also Lords of Riverrun.  There is no reason for them to be absorbed by anyone.  Walder Frey had plenty of sons other than the two who were killed.  The new Lord Frey will likely still be loyal to Cersei as Queen (since without her they have no claim to anything) but since they are weasely little bastards, expect them to do whatever gets them the most at least cost, and to turn on a dime if it suits them.

Tully:

Jaime told Edmure he would be hostage at Casterley Rock for the rest of his life and would be allowed to see his son from time to time.  Then we see that the Tully men have surrendered themselves and thrown down their weapons.

I think there are two possibilities after the death of Walder Frey.  First one is that the highest ranking Frey is lord at Riverrun and his heir is lord at The Twins and Edmure and his son and legally stripped of all title.  This is probably what Walder & Cersei intend.  In this case, all of the Tully bannermen and soldiers will be held prisoner until immediate conflict is over, then instructed to swear to the Freys as their immediate overlords, and also to the Crown.  After the Bannermen swear, the solders will be released to go home and prepare the harvest for winter.  So yes in essence, the Tully forces will ultimately be absorbed by the Freys.  Well they would be if Dany's forces weren't going to come and turn everything on its head.

Another option, and a smarter one, is to install Edmure and Roslyns' son as Lord of Riverrun, and allow him to keep the Tully name.  The Tully bannermen and army would be loyal to the child and would support the Lannister cause.  However I don't think Cersei would allow this because she care more about one-upsmanship than good politics.

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56 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Another option, and a smarter one, is to install Edmure and Roslyns' son as Lord of Riverrun, and allow him to keep the Tully name.  The Tully bannermen and army would be loyal to the child and would support the Lannister cause.  However I don't think Cersei would allow this because she care more about one-upsmanship than good politics.

Yeah this or perhaps even Edmure himself with his son held hostage would make a good deal of sense. The Frey's with the Blackfish gone might be able to hold the Riverlands but in terms of commanding enough loyality to raise a large army to potentially help the Lannisters fight Dany(or maybe even the Starks) then a Tully would obviously command a lot more loyalty.

Story wise this would potentially make sense as well since it provides more of a connection between the northern and southern plots.

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18 hours ago, Blackphillip said:

I assume the Bolton bannermen/military forces now belong to Stark.  I assume Freys forces and bannermen will be absorbed by the Lannisters.  The Tully forces likewise absorbed by the Lannisters?  And who will get The Twins.  It is, after all, a strategically crucial castle.  What do you think?  And also, what do you guys think are the size of each sides military at this point?

The Bolton's still pose a minor issue because they appointed a Castellan prior to leaving for Winterfell and probably have some loyal men. They probably have no direct males but I'm sure there were still relatives in the Dreadfort. Jon will probably need to send a force to demand their surrender or capture it. It's highly unlikely that they will just surrender after 5000 of their friends were routed.  Imagine being the wives, sons, and daughters of the men who died, even if everyone else see's  the Bolton's as bad it's unlikely they will be ready to give Jon a big hug.

The Lannisters are not stupid and they disarmed the Tully garrison completely. So unless they think it's a good idea to leave a castle completely undefended with the North, their enemy close by it's safe to say they left a garrison. They will probably finish disposing of the Frey's and put a Lannister in control of the Riverlands.

I personally put Jamie in charge of the Riverlands, that Lannister guy that has been in charge of Casterly Rock this whole time has been doing a good job. Give the twins to Bronn it would fit him PERFECTLY. He can extort everyone who wants to pass through his lands and he would have the castle he has always wanted.

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2 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Bolton: 

Yes, I think we are meant to assume that Bolton's bannermen and allies all swore to Jon as kitn already.  However it remains to be seen what is done with the Bolton name and castle (Dreadfort).  One option is to raze the castle and split the land among neighbors. 

I still don't see why it would be sensible to raze a castle. Most of the men of the Dreadfort are dead or are old men who were not able to take place in the battle. What would be the purpose of burning down a perfectly good castle that's full of women and children....That would just cause them to hate you and form a future Ramsey 2.0 that will kill you given the first chance.

And why would you want to give the lands to the neighbors? These are literally the very people that fought with and supported the Bolton's....Karhold the home of the KarStarks and the people who turned their back on Rob causing his army to be split in half. Last Hearth the home of the Umbers who gave Rickon Stark to Ramsey....

And not to argue but I think Jon sending one of his men there would be a mistake also.....Davos is an excellent advisor and it would be foolish for Jon to send him away. Tormund would be a great candidate for land and his people would really love to have a place they can call home. But I think they would prefer Last Hearth. It has a huge forest that's largely "uncivilized" and they have been raiding the area for like forever and know it very well.

Just my opinion but I would send Sansa to the Dreadfort.....She could capture the castle with the least amount of bloodshed considering that she is technically a Bolton and the men there are honor bound to her. And she could also get Lady Brienne to be her personal guard and marry Ser Sandor and form her own army. With those two and her own men she would be pretty darn formidable...

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3 hours ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

The Bolton's still pose a minor issue because they appointed a Castellan prior to leaving for Winterfell and probably have some loyal men. They probably have no direct males but I'm sure there were still relatives in the Dreadfort. Jon will probably need to send a force to demand their surrender or capture it. It's highly unlikely that they will just surrender after 5000 of their friends were routed.  Imagine being the wives, sons, and daughters of the men who died, even if everyone else see's  the Bolton's as bad it's unlikely they will be ready to give Jon a big hug.

The Lannisters are not stupid and they disarmed the Tully garrison completely. So unless they think it's a good idea to leave a castle completely undefended with the North, their enemy close by it's safe to say they left a garrison. They will probably finish disposing of the Frey's and put a Lannister in control of the Riverlands.

What?  Lannisters "disposing of the remaining Frey's" is idiotic.  They are literally the only allies they have left.  This would Be much stupider than your worries about appeasing remaining Bolton Loyalists (if there are any).

freys already are overlords over the riverlands.  From Cerseis perspective nothing needs to change.  

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The Boltons:  A vast majority of the North bent a knee but I do think that it might be holdouts.  The reason I suspect this is that 

Spoiler

They were apparently casting for an Alys Karstark character.  As long as it is a very minor subplot (i.e. a few scenes in one episode), it could be a way to redeem Jon after his incredibly emo battlefield decision and show that he has potential as a ruler.  It also could set up a season heavy on "peace-making" and alliance building meant to knit Westros back together prior to the final war.

The Freys:  The Freys will end up killing each other over control of the Twins.  That is what is inferred would happen in the books and that is what I think will happen on the screen.  It would be delicious irony if the one thing that Walder Frey boasted about - having lots of kids - ended up ruining his family.  Another amusing thing is that Arya inadvertently set off another strategic front without even realizing it.  

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Great replies, thank you.  The Riverlands and the Neck are strategically crucial.  The time immediately following the slaying of the three Freys is likewise crucial.  The Starks absolutely lack initiative.  The Lannisters do not.  However a Vale sworn to the Stark cause is well positioned geographically to cut off the Neck from the south and the Starks are well positioned to take it.  

Especially considering that the Lannisters will also be facing Dany's massive armies.  And dragons.  I honestly see the Starks taking the Twins and the entire Neck and then facing Dany in a fight for the riverlands.  That is, if they are not entirely busy with the white walkers.

 

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If The Frey forces are too busy fighting Dany with Cersei down in KL I have a feeling down The Tullys could potentially take back the Riverlands while they are gone and swear allegiance to Jon, or atleast I feel like this is what Edmure would do if he got control back. Though they probably still have his son captive and he pretty much screwed over his Uncle because Jaime threatened his son (I have a feeling Jaime wasn't actually gonna do what he said, he just wanted to honor his promise to Cat, and wanted to avoid shedding the blood of Cat's relatives, though he failed since Brynden died which you can see in his face after he is told of the Blackfish's demise, he seems genuinely depressed by the news. Though the Blackfish was also one of his heros he looked up to when he was younger so that could of been a bigger reason why he was sadden by the news)

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6 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

What?  Lannisters "disposing of the remaining Frey's" is idiotic.  They are literally the only allies they have left.  This would Be much stupider than your worries about appeasing remaining Bolton Loyalists (if there are any).

freys already are overlords over the riverlands.  From Cerseis perspective nothing needs to change.  

They Freys are fools who no one respects, did you hear how Jamie disrespected them? They were only dealt with because it was convent.

With Walder dead and tons of kids all claiming a throne how is that convient? If you just get rid of them and put Jamie in charge you have an effective military leader guarding the border of the north.

 

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1 hour ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

If The Frey forces are too busy fighting Dany with Cersei down in KL I have a feeling down The Tullys could potentially take back the Riverlands while they are gone and swear allegiance to Jon, or atleast I feel like this is what Edmure would do if he got control back. Though they probably still have his son captive and he pretty much screwed over his Uncle because Jaime threatened his son (I have a feeling Jaime wasn't actually gonna do what he said, he just wanted to honor his promise to Cat, and wanted to avoid shedding the blood of Cat's relatives, though he failed since Brynden died which you can see in his face after he is told of the Blackfish's demise, he seems genuinely depressed by the news. Though the Blackfish was also one of his heros he looked up to when he was younger so that could of been a bigger reason why he was sadden by the news)

You mean the Tully? The only one left is a man who turned his back on his kingdom and blood. Not to mention he is currently locked in prison.

If Edmure were a warrior with strong instincts maybe, but if I were Jo that's not the type of man I would associate with.

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43 minutes ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

You mean the Tully? The only one left is a man who turned his back on his kingdom and blood. Not to mention he is currently locked in prison.

If Edmure were a warrior with strong instincts maybe, but if I were Jo that's not the type of man I would associate with.

"Turned his back on his kingdom"? You mean he was essentially forced into a marriage because his "King" Robb (i'm assuming you are referring to him even though Robb has long since been dead before all the stuff with Riverrun this season went down and as far as Edmure knows at this point the Starks are pretty much gone so Blackfish's little revolt is doomed to fail) fucked up, then he was imprisoned for over a year by his father-in-law who also slaughtered his sister and nephew who put him in that position in the first place? Then he is brought back to his home only to be used as a bargaining chip and is told if he doesn't cooperate that his son (his blood) would be catapulted into his home?

If I was Edmure after the red wedding I wouldn't be taking any chances gambling with my only son's life (granted he's never met the kid but it's still his son, his blood, who is blameless in this whole debacle). If Edmure truly had turned on his blood, he would of told Jaime to go ahead and catapult his son into the Castle then let Jaime siege Riverrun then break down the gates and slaughter every single Tully soldier inside, but instead of letting that happened, Edmure agrees to go in and order the men to stand down to avoid bloodshed. Yes Edmure did turn on his blood (Blackfish), but he did it to keep his son (also his blood) alive. People will do very drastic things to protect their kids. Like Catelyn letting Jaime go in hopes that he'll send her daughters back to her. I also don't think Edmure intended for the Blackfish to die either (or maybe he didn't care after the Blackfish was perfectly fine and had accepted that Edmure was a dead man walking), he told the men to go get his uncle but not kill him.

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Edmure is a coward and there is no spinning it. His men and his father were willing to throw down their lives for their home. And Edmure was more concerned about his own personal welfare.

If he were a real leader like Jon he would not have hesitated to say you will have to slit my throat before I become a traitor and coward.

If Jon used his logic of not fighting against the odds the nights watch would have fell, the battle of Winterfell would have never happened, and he would have never saved hundreds.

And you know what had the rebellion had happened they may have lasted util after all this and the north/vale could assist. 

And again what a pathetic excuse for a man. Why anyone would want him as an ally is beyond me. If you are not willing to put your own life on the line for your men then you should not be lord of a castle. 

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Jon has no problem beheading or hanging people who wrong him, i fully expect (and hope) him to put whatever remains of house Bolton to the sword and their treacherous allies.

I expect the Tully's to be put in power, and Edmure forgotten to rot in a dungeon at Castely Rock.

The Frey's will probably be executed in mass as well, but unlike house Bolton who have a long history of fighting with the Starks, i expect their house to survive.

 

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The Boltons will extinct, and their lands will be given out to other northern houses by Jon Snow. Roose, Ramsay, Wylla and her son are all dead, meaning that there is no one carrying the name Bolton anymore. Even though some people carrying the blood of House Bolton may exist at the moment, I highly doubt that they will stand for House Bolton. So we may assume that days of House Bolton is over.

The Freys on the other hand will probably survive, and their house will continue. They are many Freys out there and I doubt there will be a mass execution regarding them. I am not sure on whether the Lannisters will intercept yet again to get the Riverlands under their control. I think Edmure will pledge loyalty to Queen Cersei and he the Tully's will rule the riverlands. But the faith of Edmure doesn't look very bright either.

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9 hours ago, Nocturne said:

Jon has no problem beheading or hanging people who wrong him, i fully expect (and hope) him to put whatever remains of house Bolton to the sword and their treacherous allies.

I expect the Tully's to be put in power, and Edmure forgotten to rot in a dungeon at Castely Rock.

The Frey's will probably be executed in mass as well, but unlike house Bolton who have a long history of fighting with the Starks, i expect their house to survive.

 

There is only one Tully left so if he is in dungeon somewhere else how can he rule? And see my earlier post, what would be the point?

Edmure literally walked into Riverrun and told his men to lay down their arms and gave his Kingdom to the Lannisters. I have doubts that those men that were willing to die for their home are going to suddenly want to follow him when his family has been disposed not once but twice. That's an awful lot of trouble to go through when you could just give the Riverlands to Jamie Lannister and know it's in good hands.

Matter fact, just put Jamie in charge of Riverrun which is the capital and marry Bron to one of the Frey girls and eliminate all the other males. Then House Lannister will have complete control of the land.

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20 hours ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

There is only one Tully left so if he is in dungeon somewhere else how can he rule? And see my earlier post, what would be the point?

Edmure literally walked into Riverrun and told his men to lay down their arms and gave his Kingdom to the Lannisters. I have doubts that those men that were willing to die for their home are going to suddenly want to follow him when his family has been disposed not once but twice. That's an awful lot of trouble to go through when you could just give the Riverlands to Jamie Lannister and know it's in good hands.

Matter fact, just put Jamie in charge of Riverrun which is the capital and marry Bron to one of the Frey girls and eliminate all the other males. Then House Lannister will have complete control of the land.

 

If Jamie is going to be Lord of something, he would be lord of CR, since Tyrion can't have the job since he is hand of the queen. While i agree that the Black Fish inspired his men to fight to the death, i'm pretty sure they were relieved once Edmure surrender the castle peacefully and they were left to go about their business without any real penalty on their finances/wellbeing.

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3 hours ago, Nocturne said:

 

If Jamie is going to be Lord of something, he would be lord of CR, since Tyrion can't have the job since he is hand of the queen. While i agree that the Black Fish inspired his men to fight to the death, i'm pretty sure they were relieved once Edmure surrender the castle peacefully and they were left to go about their business without any real penalty on their finances/wellbeing.

He does not have to be the lord of CR, there is already a Lannister ruling who is doing a great job. They have that territory firmly under their control and what they need right now is resources which the Riverlands have lots of. Sending him to Riverrun to would ensure that the war against Danny will be supported by three of the seven realms and possibly the Iron Islands.

And you are wrong saying that they were relived, this is the show forum. On the show when he did that his men were shocked and questioned him about it. Put yourself in their position, how would you feel if you were a United States soldier and then China came in and said give us all your weapons and we are replacing the government with another one we want.

You would be pretty pissed if the president allowed that because it's your home.

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Great posts, thank you.  Things are in dissaray, whoever takes forceful initiative will control the Tully and Frey assets.  Just not sure who that will be.  I definitely see Littlefinger manipulating Sansa to take said initiative.  Jon will want to stay north to face the ww.  Sansa via Littlefinger and Jon, commands what is probably the currently largest military force in westeros.  Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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Boltons hold on the North was always dubious. They ruled out of fear, had betrayed the much loved House Stark, so  many of the Houses that fought with House Bolton, would gladly resort back to Stark bannerman. House Frey could easily be outed, as its an immoral House and Lord Walder or his sons commanded respect only out of fear and the alliance with the Lannisters. 

House Tully is not so straight forward. Their bannerman would be loyal to the true heritage of House Tully, and would never so easily allow the Lannisters to be their de-facto overlords  They rallied once to take back to the Riverrun, and could do so again. 

It must take years for a House to stamp its authority. House Bolton would have had to have ruled for a generation to firmly consolidate its claim on the North. 

 

 

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